Welcome to the first Friday Fights! After the success of Vader vs Wedge taking over this thread: https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/201444-why-no-juno-eclipse/page-2

This will become a weekly Friday post to help us working stiffs through the last day of the week.

The rules: This week will open the debate to the rest of the forum who may have missed it. These two characters are prominently found in cannon, so only cannon sources may be used to make your claims and prove your arguments as to who the best pilot is.

This Week's Main Event:

Wedge Antilles

Background:

Wedge Antilles fought in the Battle of Yavin, where he flew in Red Squadron alongside Luke Skywalker. In the years that followed, Antilles flew the Battle of Hoth and commanded Red Squadron during the Battle of Endor. Wedge is mostly noted as a T-65 X-wing pilot, but also pilots the T-47 Airspeeder.

Vs.

Darth Vader

Background:

As both a Jedi and Lord of the Sith, Darth Vader, Anakin Skywalker, has been involved in many space battles including (but not limited too) The Battle of Naboo, Geonosis, Lothal, and Yavin. Darth Vader is the commander of the Black Squadron, the best pilots of the Empire, and flies a custom TIE Advanced.

Who would win?

That was quick.

I will happily kick this off by casting my vote. Vader is the best pilot in the galaxy, capable of taking on a whole squadron of Rebels by himself.

As much as I love Wedge, I've gotta give it to Vader. He's kind of got that Force thing in his favour, never mind the fancy flying he can do in his x1.

Are we debating ships and standard loadouts or just the pilots sans machines?

In current canon, Vader, hands down. Not only the Rebels scene above, but the Darth Vader Down comic shows Vader using the Force while in his ship to solo several squadrons of X-Wings, only taken down when Luke actively rams him.

In the old EU, disregarding things from the new EU, I'd give it to Wedge. Flying may have been Anakin's specialty, but the EU Vader was a much more brutal swordsman (again, pulling mostly from comics and some EU novels).

I am voting for Wedge on this one. Vader is powerful in the force and could easily force Wedge to make a wrong move or pick an incorrect switch or flat choke him to death but that being said those are force powers causing the win not flight skill.

Wedge is the only pilot to survive both Death Star runs with the second being a massive furball with probably 1% survivability. Vader has lost both legs below the knees and one arm I believe, he was also burned to the point his force energy was all that allowed him to survive and requires constant life support. His reflexes can not be anywhere near what they were so in pilot ability I give the win to Wedge. Now Anakin before the suit, oh yeah hands down prolly the best pilot in the galaxy.

Are we debating ships and standard loadouts or just the pilots sans machines?

Pure pilot ability. Think of it as a boxing match between pilots. If Wedge (in his X-wing) squared off against Vader (in his X1) mono e mono, who would fly away victorious?

Definitely Vader. While he might not have Anakin's reflexes anymore, he still has the same experience and flying know-how.

my vote is on vader.

Are we debating ships and standard loadouts or just the pilots sans machines?

Pure pilot ability. Think of it as a boxing match between pilots. If Wedge (in his X-wing) squared off against Vader (in his X1) mono e mono, who would fly away victorious?

Mono a mono in that matchup? Call it a tie with a slight lean to Vader. I feel like Wedge would put up an incredible fight and arguably has the better machine (X-Wing but stats notwithstanding!) but it's kind of hard to argue the guy would win against someone who can sense the future. Just from the movies and Rebels so far at least. Maybe baby Wedge will show up in Rebels and change my mind!

One on One I would give the edge to Vader, but he's not coming out of the battle unscathed.

I am voting for Wedge on this one. Vader is powerful in the force and could easily force Wedge to make a wrong move or pick an incorrect switch or flat choke him to death but that being said those are force powers causing the win not flight skill.

Wedge is the only pilot to survive both Death Star runs with the second being a massive furball with probably 1% survivability. Vader has lost both legs below the knees and one arm I believe, he was also burned to the point his force energy was all that allowed him to survive and requires constant life support. His reflexes can not be anywhere near what they were so in pilot ability I give the win to Wedge. Now Anakin before the suit, oh yeah hands down prolly the best pilot in the galaxy.

A person's reflexes are faster than a machine? I'd have to disagree. Star Wars bionics are far more advanced than ours, and I highly doubt that they'd hamper Vader too much.

And who says force powers shouldn't be taken into account? The added awareness would prove extremely valuable to a pilot. Being able to sense what the opponent is going to do lets you plan around and counter that.

And just for the sake of correctness, he lost both legs and both arms. On Mustafar, Obi took his left one. He lost his right in Episode 2.

I'll go for the man described by Obi Wan himself as "The best star pilot in the galaxy, and a cunning warrior".

Wedge. He outflies Vader in Ep. 4, taking only a grazing hit from Vader's shot and then pulling out. Meanwhile, Vader is easily thrown off-balance by a not so sneaky sneak attack by the Falcon. Wedge also destroys Dark Curse, and another TIE in Ep. 4.

Ep. 5 sees Wedge as the only pilot to successfully grapple and take down an AT-AT, and not get shot down.

Ep. 6 sees Wedge as Red Leader, shooting down several TIEs, flying into the Death Star (making Wedge the only Canon character to take down 2 Death Stars), navigating the tiny corridors at high speed, destroying a power generator, and coming out of the entire battle unscathed.

And that's only the movies, I'm sure he does other fun stuff in Aftermath.

I'll go for the man described by Obi Wan himself as "The best star pilot in the galaxy, and a cunning warrior".

Obi-Wan also said that Vader killed Anakin. If we're going to quote Obi-wan we have to take it in the context that the best star-pilot in the galaxy, and the cunning warrior, is dead.

I always have to bring it back to the X-Wing miniatures game rather than the lore (or cool scenes) from the source material.

If Vader has the TIE/x1 title upgrade, advanced sensors system upgrade, and engine upgrade modification then I would ABSOLUTELY give the 1-on-1 match to Vader ... if he is flown by a skilled player who understands arc dodging and how to use advanced sensors, barrel roll and boost to setup shots while arc dodging.

If Wedge gets a lucky shot with ion torpedoes to deny Vader the ability to arc dodge at least once and Wedge has either R2-D2 or R5-P9 to regen shields combined with a good EPT like Predator to reroll attack dice, Crack Shot to force through damage, or maybe Expert Handling to do some arc dodging himself and strip Vader's target locks, then Wedge might actually come out on top.

However, even if Wedge has all those things I just mentioned, I'd still say Vader is the odds-on favorite if he is equipped as I said.

I believe that Vader/Anakin is the more accomplished career pilot than Wedge. If we are talking an in-their-prime matchup between Anakin and Wedge, I think Anakin steals Wedge's lunch money and it is not even that close. Did you see what he did in the prequels and Clone Wars? Great googly moogly! Anakin was, generally, regarded as the best jedi pilot of his era and jedi were the best pilots. Also, young Anakin was the only human capable of pod racing further adding to his insanely good reflexes and piloting ability.

However, if we are talking old "more machine than man" Vader from Return of the Jedi, then I give the edge to Wedge. By this time Vader had clearly lost a step or three. He had problems locking in on ships in a confined space (trench run) in a reasonable amount of time. He was constantly fidgeting with his gear and was surprised when Han Solo took out his wingmen. Younger Anakin/Vader would have never had that poor situational awareness.

In short: In their prime, Anakin/Vader wins easily. OT Wedge beats old man Vader.

I'm gonna throw a wrench into the works, I've obviously got my man Wedge all day every day, but black squadron can't even hold a candle to Rogue Squadron.

I'm gonna throw a wrench into the works, I've obviously got my man Wedge all day every day, but black squadron can't even hold a candle to Rogue Squadron.

That sounds like NEXT WEEK's Friday Fights!

But back to Vader vs. Wedge...

I will continue to back Vader because of Episode IV. Wedge ran away and was spared by Vader and his Black Squadron.

I'm gonna throw a wrench into the works, I've obviously got my man Wedge all day every day, but black squadron can't even hold a candle to Rogue Squadron.

That sounds like NEXT WEEK's Friday Fights!

But back to Vader vs. Wedge...

I will continue to back Vader because of Episode IV. Wedge ran away and was spared by Vader and his Black Squadron.

But lets face it, Vader missed. Every other pilot he destroyed, and with Luke and Wedge, he only managed to graze them non-lethally. And this was in a trench with NO maneuvering space. It was literally a turkey shoot.

I'm gonna throw a wrench into the works, I've obviously got my man Wedge all day every day, but black squadron can't even hold a candle to Rogue Squadron.

That sounds like NEXT WEEK's Friday Fights!

But back to Vader vs. Wedge...

I will continue to back Vader because of Episode IV. Wedge ran away and was spared by Vader and his Black Squadron.

But lets face it, Vader missed. Every other pilot he destroyed, and with Luke and Wedge, he only managed to graze them non-lethally. And this was in a trench with NO maneuvering space. It was literally a turkey shoot.

Which is why this fight to the death is worth hypothesizing!

I think it's hard not to give an edge to the one who is/was a Jedi. Especially when he had been piloting things since he was a child. I wouldn't be surprised if even Obi-Wan could have given Wedge a challenge in his prime.

That said, I could see Wedge winning against Vader. The T-65 is a much better ship than the TIE Advanced (speaking canon of course, not the minis representation), and that matters a lot when you have two relatively equals.

I think if the stage is 1v1 duel, then Vader wins most likely. The Force and his innate ability will overcome the talent and skill Wedge has.

If it was an actual battle, however, Wedge would win hands down. He is a better leader, and Vader would have more to worry about, which would allow Wedge to overcome his lack of being a space wizard =).

I always have to bring it back to the X-Wing miniatures game rather than the lore (or cool scenes) from the source material.

If Vader has the TIE/x1 title upgrade, advanced sensors system upgrade, and engine upgrade modification then I would ABSOLUTELY give the 1-on-1 match to Vader ... if he is flown by a skilled player who understands arc dodging and how to use advanced sensors, barrel roll and boost to setup shots while arc dodging.

If Wedge gets a lucky shot with ion torpedoes to deny Vader the ability to arc dodge at least once and Wedge has either R2-D2 or R5-P9 to regen shields combined with a good EPT like Predator to reroll attack dice, Crack Shot to force through damage, or maybe Expert Handling to do some arc dodging himself and strip Vader's target locks, then Wedge might actually come out on top.

However, even if Wedge has all those things I just mentioned, I'd still say Vader is the odds-on favorite if he is equipped as I said.

I hate to say it but this one comes down to initiative. Wedge with bb8 can eviscerate vader when moving second, and if vader has engine he'd be hard for a moving first wedge to pin down

I'm gonna throw a wrench into the works, I've obviously got my man Wedge all day every day, but black squadron can't even hold a candle to Rogue Squadron.

That sounds like NEXT WEEK's Friday Fights!

But back to Vader vs. Wedge...

I will continue to back Vader because of Episode IV. Wedge ran away and was spared by Vader and his Black Squadron.

Wedge and Vader each came into that trench run with a mission. Vader didn't accomplish his. You really can't say vader is the better pilot when he was able to wait till wedge started his attack run down a narrow trench and then dropped in behind him. Even with that advantage vader couldn't do the job. Youre telling me that makes him better?

Vader.

Wedge made a tactical error in episode IV. Once Wedge realized Vader had let him go, he should have dropped in on Vader's 6 and blown him up.

Vader also made a tactical error in the same battle. He fixated on his target (Luke) and lost his situational awareness. If Han had picked the right target, Vader would have been dead.

In the end, my edge would still have to go to Vader.