When introducing new players we usually play soft and easy. But yesterday a veteran player told me the sistem he employs to teach new players. First a basic set play. X vs.2 Tie.

Then 100 pts games but... The novice deploys 100 pts, the teacher 80. No quarter given. 80 pts but with "the lot". Soontir, Vader, Phantom. After two plays, deploy 90 pts.

He is a LGS game player. In his experience, the very best way to grow up as a player is to face people like Vader from the begining. Faster to Battle Harden that downing generic X wing pilots.

Your opinion?

Eh, I did fine, and so did a lot of other newbies in my club, with a couple of teaching games then being thrown in the deep end with their own builds and ship choices at 100 points. I don't go easy on them, but I'm always happy to talk strategy and build options, and if they do get something wrong because of not knowing a rule (e.g. when someone set a red move whilst stressed the other day) I'll explain the rule and let them rework fairly rather than punishing the lack of knowledge.

I don't think handholding is particularly helpful, unless it's asked for, as a newbie I would have hated the patronising feeling of that.

I appreciated that people let me make my own mistakes and learn from them.

Your opinion?

A man has little understanding of basic rules, prone to even mistaking left for right and you unzip Vader and Soontir and come from behind...

I won't say it's a productive way. You'll likely scare the new player, especially when he asks where does each of the cards come from, and start thinking about BUYING IT ALL.

The game should be easy-going, no bootcamps.

When introducing new players we usually play soft and easy. But yesterday a veteran player told me the sistem he employs to teach new players. First a basic set play. X vs.2 Tie.

Then 100 pts games but... The novice deploys 100 pts, the teacher 80. No quarter given. 80 pts but with "the lot". Soontir, Vader, Phantom. After two plays, deploy 90 pts.

He is a LGS game player. In his experience, the very best way to grow up as a player is to face people like Vader from the begining. Faster to Battle Harden that downing generic X wing pilots.

Your opinion?

If you lose a game, 9/10 times it is because you didn't deserve to win. It's called competition, why dilute that for beginners?

That said I wouldn't say putting a total noob against palp/aces or whichever internet hawtness is a great idea.

Your opinion?

A man has little understanding of basic rules, prone to even mistaking left for right and you unzip Vader and Soontir and come from behind...

I won't say it's a productive way. You'll likely scare the new player, especially when he asks where does each of the cards come from, and start thinking about BUYING IT ALL.

The game should be easy-going, no bootcamps.

The reverse can also be true. If you introduce a player by taking it easy (simple lists, no synergy etc. ) he might get the wrong idea about the game. Then, when he meets his first competitive list he will react negatively.

Paradoxically, because of the nature of the game, beginning players tend to field lists that are not automatically bad, but do require a fair amount of experience to fly. Experienced players have lots of stuff, so they can make forgiving lists, and then fly these with a lot of skill.

I don't know what the best solution to that is, but an obvious idea is to use lists that are customarily labelled here as 'fun' (sic!). Maybe thematic lists are also a good idea.

it reminds me one great film

Crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentations of their women.

Crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentations of their women.

But don't whinge when they, in return, crush you a few weeks later.

Seriously, I really don't think it's helpful in most cases to play more than a couple of teaching games. This is a fairly straightforward game to learn, and a hard one to master - but you don't get started mastering it until you can start... you know, playing it in full. Playing someone who is at a points handicap will just give you the wrong impression of the sorts of squads you'll be facing when you start playing the 'real' game.

The best way to learn to play the game is to make mistakes and learn from them. It's best if you can learn from other people'ss, of course, but you learn to avoid errors by... having them pointed out.

I dunno, this might just be me. I generally dislike the 'simple' or 'teaching' variants of board games; they always feel limited and patronising to me, and I'd almost always prefer to skip them and just get straight into the real thing - and make mistakes, and learn from them, and do better next time.

Sorry to be pedantic, but...

*system.

As you said, people need to learn...

Although I don't play 'easy' on new players, if I'm playing at home with a new player, I'll generally avoid fielding ships that are extremely hard for them to get in arc ( interceptor, phantom), or pilots with abilities that 'screw' the opponent. (Carnor Jax, Dark Curse, Palob) Not to mention it's a great time to pull out those lists you may not bring to a tourney. (Arvel FTW! Well, I would like to bring him to a tourney,anyway.)

IMO there is no "one true way" to bring new players into the game. Generally speaking, people who have a background in competitive gaming will do well with a "boot camp" approach - they have the resilience and perseverance to keep playing even if they are getting crushed in game after game after game.

People who aren't automatically motivated to play because it's a Star Wars minis game are more likely to get discouraged if they're losing a lot. In these cases, it's better to introduce them through multiplayer "furball" games where having a ship destroyed doesn't mean they have to stop playing, through team games where a more experienced player can give them advice, or through unbalanced or low-point games where they can recover from mistakes.

Very few people want to have a win handed to them, but most people want a reasonable chance to win their first few games. And obviously equal points values don't mean balanced matches - points are an OK balancing system, but taking Soontir, Vader and the Palpmobile is NOT going to be a fair fight against, say, 3x Red Squadron X-Wings with Advanced Proton Torpedoes, R5 Astromechs and Stealth Devices (which might look like a decent list to a new player).

2 X vs 2 interceptors is actually much more balanced. Rookies and alphas with autothrusters.

I tend to do a 2-3 game ramp up. X vs. TIEs. If they are young, add in asteroids and replay and explain green and red on dials. Then go to 100 point list on each side... full rules but no upgrades. Sometimes I will then trade ships so they fly the other side and see how they operate differently. After that, I am going to try and fly something different at them so they aren't just seeing top tier meta... that they won't have ships and cards for that can show them how generics perform against other lists. Aces versus aces. Etc. Swarms and positioning. At the beginning it is all about learning to fly and having fun doing it. Unless they know they want to jump straight into competitive scene with a lot of cash... and I haven't met that person yet.

and if they do get something wrong because of not knowing a rule (e.g. when someone set a red move whilst stressed the other day) I'll explain the rule and let them rework fairly rather than punishing the lack of knowledge.

I'm generally amazed at how often new players refuse the mulligan. The ones I've trained refused, they just accept it. I don't think they like being coddled, they usually say something to the effect of "well i'm gonna learn not to do that after this".

Oh for pete's sake! If your goal is to introduce new players the game, then your goal is to introduce new players to the game not to show off how you can crush them with superior knowledge of the most powerful ship and upgrade combinations currently available while they're still trying to remember how asteroids work.

The lists you use need to be simple . Not necessarily weak but simple . Try to avoid complex mechanics like asteroids, secondary weapons, attacking out of arc, torpedoes and missiles, bombs, mines, tractor beams and especially cloaking devices. Try to limit the number of special abilities you use, especially those that interact. Don't introduce debris fields until your trainee has mastered the rules for asteroids. BBBBZ is a fantastic list to use against beginners. Soontir Fel with Push the Limit and nothing else teaches arc dodging without the distraction of Autothrusters or Stealth Device or a title to complicate things and obscure the lesson.

For a beginner, a palpmobile with just Palpatine and an Omicron Squadron Pilot is much better than tie phantom because the former has only 1 simple special ability to worry about while the latter has a cloaking device that requires two rules cards to explain.

People don't learn calculus by being taught what numbers are and then being thrown into a calc 202 midterm. They learn numbers, which lets them learn addition and subtraction, which lets them learn arithmatic, then variables, then algebra, then functions, then limits, and then they can start taking derivatives.

People learn by building on previous knowledge. Let people master basic ship movement before you cram Advanced Techniques For Defeating the Current Metagame down their throats.

and if they do get something wrong because of not knowing a rule (e.g. when someone set a red move whilst stressed the other day) I'll explain the rule and let them rework fairly rather than punishing the lack of knowledge.

I'm generally amazed at how often new players refuse the mulligan. The ones I've trained refused, they just accept it. I don't think they like being coddled, they usually say something to the effect of "well i'm gonna learn not to do that after this".

Yeah, that's my experience - and it's something I still say myself to this very day when I make an unforced error.

Disagree entirely. When I introduce someone to the game they are, more often than not, a veteran gamer of some sort or another usually of multiple systems. Being demeaning and/or skipping all but the hardest ships isn't doing anyone any favors.

Personally I will start with basics jousters no bling no repositioning. This does two things: first it gives them a solid base line. This is important because when people explore a game in reverse they tend to discount the 'lesser' parts which is unfortunate.

Second it reminds me that these take at least as much skill as 3 actions a turn to correct a misplay and also that I still enjoy flying them.

The lists you use need to be simple . Not necessarily weak but simple .

That doesn't work for everyone. People who played 40k, Warmachine, Infinity, ect... Show them a simple game and it may turn them off. They could look at your simple game and think 'meh it's pretty but very shallow.'

There is no one size fits all approach to teaching someone a new game. Myself when I'm having someone demo a new game for me I want to jump in the deep end, look at all the options and play the real game. But for someone else that may be overload and drive them away from the game.

Other thing is I never want someone showing me a game to go easy on me. If I win the first time I play something is up. Now in some cases the game Deadmans Hand, it was a close game because the LSG owner hadn't played much either.

The fact is, there is no one way to do something like this, some people will want to jump in and see all the options some will find it overwhelming. If you're going to demo games you need to be able to size up the type of person you're working with and figure out which method works for them.

Anyone who says 'you must always do this' is quite simply wrong.

I played one "beginner" game just recently to teach a friend, then we played 2 lists I'd pre-set to give him that Star Wars "Feeling". A TIE swarm vs The Falcon & an X-wing.

He's pretty enthusiastic about playing again in the future.

Personally, I almost think new players need to play with Tie Fighters for a while before they ever touch an Interceptor. When people jump straight to the Interceptor, they tend to look at the Tie Fighter as a poor vehicle that can't arc dodge. Good for only for blocking or formation flying. I consider them highly maneuverable and decent arc dodgers. People should learn to get good with them before they touch the Interceptor.

When I introduced a friend, it was a rookiee with R2D2 and a torp vs 2 named ties. The newbie quickly learned to respect the usefulness of a ties barrel roll, while R2 had him wrestling with the predictability of greens vs the lack of regen on whites.

How I teach new players:

Step 1. Generate random lists for both players.

Step 2. Optional - grab a beer.

Step 3. Have fun!

I've introduced 3 other people to X-wing so far, and this is what I've gathered: it depends on the player.

I had a friend who played very many strategy games and has an interest in miniatures. He actually asked me a night before for a copy of the rulebook so he could read up on the actions, phases, movement, etc. I gave him a deck of pilot cards and upgrades and I let him go at it. Very little instruction required and he had a decent 100 pt list and was ready to fly.

I had another friend who plays party games, board games, and other casual-type games. But since I kept talking about X-Wing, he was interested to see what it was all about. Now this is a friend that I threw into a 2v2 game with 100 pts and tons of upgrades. It can be a bit overwhelming to someone who is just exploring the game and world of miniatures. I would have rather introduced him by playing without upgrades just so he can learn the mechanics before I add on another layer of flavor.

All in all, I think depending on the player's experience with miniature gaming, you start them off at different points. You'd start someone who is completely new at a very basic level. You'd start someone who is an average gamer at a bit higher level. And you'd start someone who is an experienced player at the highest level.

I wouldn't go softly softly on someone new. I hate the safety blanket approach as you then effectively pull he rug out from under their feet.

I would fly a simple 'jousty' list to start though. Keep things simple. I'd fly it properly though. I do like the 80-100 point gap though.