Prior to getting my wave 2 goodies, I thought Ozzel was the bomb. Unpredictable movement, rapid stops/acceleration in/out of firing arcs, and cheap.

Tried him on the table and he was complete garbage. You use that special ability only once or twice per game max. Usually your star destroyers are going full tilt anyway to get into black dice range. Dano hit the nail on the head - all the other Admirals give you something through the game (tokens/shooting/hull) without requiring lots of work.

Maybe I just had the wrong list or didn't fly him right, but I think he sucks.

Prior to getting my wave 2 goodies, I thought Ozzel was the bomb. Unpredictable movement, rapid stops/acceleration in/out of firing arcs, and cheap.

Tried him on the table and he was complete garbage. You use that special ability only once or twice per game max. Usually your star destroyers are going full tilt anyway to get into black dice range. Dano hit the nail on the head - all the other Admirals give you something through the game (tokens/shooting/hull) without requiring lots of work.

Maybe I just had the wrong list or didn't fly him right, but I think he sucks.

Yeah Ozzel really is clumsy and stupid.

He is the one commander I actually think if overpriced. I mean who wouldn't take Motti or Screed for 4 or six more points?

Tarkin is "expensive" but when you put him next to Ozzel he is such a bargain. The question is: Is Ozzel and one extra Firespray or two extra TIE bombers worth the same as Tarkin? The answer is: Not at all.

Listening to Episode 11 again where you guys went over the previews prior to Sullust.

You guys were SOOOOOOO excited about the Raider. . . Not to mention you guys started the Instigator + Heavy argument

Let's not to forget to mention that this was the time when you guys had no faith in squadrons.

Listening to Episode 11 again where you guys went over the previews prior to Sullust.

You guys were SOOOOOOO excited about the Raider. . .

Yep. Was very excited for what I thought would be a low cost, out of the box addition to the Imperial fleet. Call me bad, but when I start adding upgrades to the 44pt buy in, I get something similar to a GSDII. Then I ask myself "Self? Why dont you just take a GSD?". Then amidst this frustrated state, I go back to the pleasantness of Rebel listing.

Its me I think. Ive developed "Listing block" when it comes to the Empire...outide this one lil gem I have stored for a rainy day.

Everyone loved TRC's, and WWPDSteven was meh on APT's but changed to a yay after considering Dodonna, everyone else was a yay.

What baffles me is why people think that Ozzel is so bad. In a game where movement (including speed) and tactical positioning are crucial Ozzel can have a huge impact on the game. I think he really shines when you couple him with Engine Techs, especially on Gladiators as you can essentially go from 1 to 4 with one command or token. I dont know how many times I have been in a tactically bad situation only to have Ozzel allow me to break away and win the game because of superior positioning. He takes skill and experience to use but if you are discarding him because you think he doesnt bring enough to the game then either you havent played him with the with the right build or you are the type of player who wants to play the easy no brainer Commander. I wont argue that there are not other good Commanders out there but they all have their place and fit with different play styles. Is Ozzel a good all around Commander, no, but for the cost and with the right build he is excellent.

All the Admirals have their place.

The trick is, you can't just take an Admiral and Slap him on a list with no regards to what the list is intending to do.

If you are going to take an Admiral, it is because you have an intention on using said Admiral.

Some are simply more straightforward when it comes to their use. Tarkin Bucks is, but sometimes, when a plan goes awry, its not - Especially since all of your ships have to take the same token, sometimes you just want 1 ship to get an Engineering, but everyone else needs a Squadron -

In that case, Tarkin can be just as "useless" as Ozzel.

In a brief defense. You guys heard Dano's opinion on Ozzel thoroughly

I don't think Ozzel is bad at all, and when I've used him I've been surprised with the flexibility. He isn't my go to but I always consider him, and have seen him used to great effect.

Yep, you guys nailed it. I'm bad, skilless, and need an Admiral that makes my list work...not an Admiral I need to try to make work for my list.

Whew. Feels good saying that out loud.

That being said, I ha e a hankering for some French Fries to go with my salt. Mmhmm, deeeelish.

/wink

Yep, you guys nailed it. I'm bad, skilless, and need an Admiral that makes my list work...not an Admiral I need to try to make work for my list.

Whew. Feels good saying that out loud.

That being said, I ha e a hankering for some French Fries to go with my salt. Mmhmm, deeeelish.

/wink

You use Upgrades to fill a purpose in your list in the same capacity as a Commander. So why can't the Commander being doing both versions?

Yep, you guys nailed it. I'm bad, skilless, and need an Admiral that makes my list work...not an Admiral I need to try to make work for my list.

Whew. Feels good saying that out loud.

That being said, I ha e a hankering for some French Fries to go with my salt. Mmhmm, deeeelish.

/wink

Now doesnt that feel better to get it off your chest?

Yeah like I said in another thread I am now on a 7 game tourney winning streak with the maybe 18pt difference one with Drunk Tarkin being the closest result and 6 of those wins were with Ozzel.

In several of those game Ozzel made a serious difference.

In a brief defense. You guys heard Dano's opinion on Ozzel thoroughly

I don't think Ozzel is bad at all, and when I've used him I've been surprised with the flexibility. He isn't my go to but I always consider him, and have seen him used to great effect.

Okay, to defend Ozzel, I will say this:

1. If you parachute him into a random list, he is the worst admiral for the Imperials.
2. To get the most out of him, you need ships with a large span of range and relatively quick command stacks to fire off navigates on demand.
3. Therefore, unless your list contains nothing but Raiders and Gladiators (or maybe a Relentless ISD), you are probably worse off with him versus any other admiral.
4. However, in those lists, the ability to throttle up/down to play very aggressively has a major non-zero value.

In short, he only works in a list like the Gencon Special, and nowhere else, so the average returns with him should be very poor. However, in a tailor built list, he could be great. To that end, he's like a much more narrow Mon Mothma.

In a brief defense. You guys heard Dano's opinion on Ozzel thoroughly

I don't think Ozzel is bad at all, and when I've used him I've been surprised with the flexibility. He isn't my go to but I always consider him, and have seen him used to great effect.

Okay, to defend Ozzel, I will say this:

1. If you parachute him into a random list, he is the worst admiral for the Imperials.
2. To get the most out of him, you need ships with a large span of range and relatively quick command stacks to fire off navigates on demand.
3. Therefore, unless your list contains nothing but Raiders and Gladiators (or maybe a Relentless ISD), you are probably worse off with him versus any other admiral.
4. However, in those lists, the ability to throttle up/down to play very aggressively has a major non-zero value.

In short, he only works in a list like the Gencon Special, and nowhere else, so the average returns with him should be very poor. However, in a tailor built list, he could be great. To that end, he's like a much more narrow Mon Mothma.

I use him with a Relentless ISD, Nav tech Demolisher and raider. I would also gladly run him in a 3 ISD list (if I ever ran one like that) and never with VSDs.

Personally I don't think there are ANY bad Admirals, there are admirals that cost too much and in my book that is how I judge relative value.

At this point of the game I feel like the VSD deserves a support team slot.

I'd like to thank the IFF guys for my squadron success. I was so concerned about Jan's (se)X wings, I started using IG88.

I didn't encounter a single case of Jan, but I did use him with great success against a list with twice as many squads as mine, and then a Fireball with Dengar.

As a side note... You can win games without ECM. But you're going to take an absolute beating in the process.

At this point of the game I feel like the VSD deserves a support team slot.

The VSD's work you just have to know how to fly it properly

Excellent podcast IFF crew! It was nice reliving our Store Championship experience. Can't wait for the next episode.

Dano? Do you select Most Wanted ships now!?!? It has to be now, right??????

Excellent podcast IFF crew! It was nice reliving our Store Championship experience. Can't wait for the next episode.

Dano? Do you select Most Wanted ships now!?!? It has to be now, right??????

In my best El Pasoan accent, "Pretty soon we're GOING to pick them right NOW".

I can provide a little more information about the issue Dano was referring to as I witnessed it. The two players were having a reasonably friendly game. At some point late in the game, the player you are referring to walked over to the other side of the table and said something about slowing down. He then appeared to accidentally slot the tool before adjusting it. He immediately said oops and pulled it away. His opponent demanded that he take the maneuver as was on the tool without adjusting speed. As the game had been friendly up to that point, the player responded with something to the tune of "come on, seriously?" but when his opponent insisted, he frustratingly removed the piece as the maneuver he was forced to execute caused the ship to just nick the board edge.

Up to this point the game had been played fairly casually. I know the player in question reminded his opponent of a few things and allowed him to go back and perform an attack or two that he had forgotten. I do not know how much of this was reciprocated as I could hear the first player much more clearly. What I think happened was a misunderstanding as to the tone of the game. It appeared to be played fairly friendly/casually up to that point and then a hammer got dropped. Was the second player within his rights to do so? Yes. He acted as per the letter of the rules. Should he have done so given the tone and progression of the game? That is what is in question. Given how everyone seemed to be playing fairly casually, I would say no. I know it was a tournament but it just seemed to me like a d*** move given the circumstances. Were this at an event at a higher level than a store championship, I would have expected that hammer to drop earlier and more often, but with far more understanding as to why.

As far as the players' behavior, I will leave it at neither one was the epitome of sportsmanship. Words were exchanged, some of them heated and it was a very uncomfortable place to be while it was going on.

I can provide a little more information about the issue Dano was referring to as I witnessed it. The two players were having a reasonably friendly game. At some point late in the game, the player you are referring to walked over to the other side of the table and said something about slowing down. He then appeared to accidentally slot the tool before adjusting it. He immediately said oops and pulled it away. His opponent demanded that he take the maneuver as was on the tool without adjusting speed. As the game had been friendly up to that point, the player responded with something to the tune of "come on, seriously?" but when his opponent insisted, he frustratingly removed the piece as the maneuver he was forced to execute caused the ship to just nick the board edge.

Up to this point the game had been played fairly casually. I know the player in question reminded his opponent of a few things and allowed him to go back and perform an attack or two that he had forgotten. I do not know how much of this was reciprocated as I could hear the first player much more clearly. What I think happened was a misunderstanding as to the tone of the game. It appeared to be played fairly friendly/casually up to that point and then a hammer got dropped. Was the second player within his rights to do so? Yes. He acted as per the letter of the rules. Should he have done so given the tone and progression of the game? That is what is in question. Given how everyone seemed to be playing fairly casually, I would say no. I know it was a tournament but it just seemed to me like a d*** move given the circumstances. Were this at an event at a higher level than a store championship, I would have expected that hammer to drop earlier and more often, but with far more understanding as to why.

As far as the players' behavior, I will leave it at neither one was the epitome of sportsmanship. Words were exchanged, some of them heated and it was a very uncomfortable place to be while it was going on.

Well put Blaklanner. I agree that playing in tournaments should be fun but at the same time you cant expect your opponent to allow you to undo dumb mistakes. You need to learn from these mistakes and if your opponents continually let you slide you will be become a sloppy player and these types of scenarios will continue. I like to think I am a pretty easy going person but I would have absolutely made them keep their mistake. I bet he is pretty unlikely to make that mistake again seeing that it cost him the game. Part of being a good sport is accepting the consequences of your actions and not an a#$ about it.

Since there was a response I will just add this here rather than editing again: If the facts were as Dano described, I am completely in agreement with him. Once you move your ship, it is far too late even in the friendliest of competitive games. That just isn't what happened in this case.

Overdawg: Would you really have pulled a gotcha in this case, given that up until then other errors like forgotten actions, missed attacks, forgotten critical effects, and whatnot were forgiven?

This is a Store Championship we are talking about though. This is just below the rung of Premier events and should be treated with some importance as following the rules.