Indeed.

My view is that if you are at a tournament where points matter, fundamental rules that will affect the outcome of the tournament have to be enforced rigidly, not just for the fairness of the match you are playing but for the fairness of the entire tournament.

For example I had a tourney on Saturday. One of my opponents notched the move tool, changed his mind and un-notched and changed it.

now, the move was not in a critical spot, he was not about to fly off the board or even be in/out of range because of the move, in other words, the measurable difference to tournament points was Null. I totally let him continue with his course adjustment and just told him that in tournaments once you notch you are committed and going forward I was going to ask that the rule be enforced strictly. No worries!

I also allowed him to take an anti-squadron arc after he had already moved his ship, again, the chances of this ret-conning having a significant effect on final scoring is negligible to the point of being ludicrous. We probably allowed each other several of these minor "missed opportunities" because the fun factor was orders of magnitude more affected by these than the MOV!

IMO these sort of things are OK to allow take backs, I do it all the time and others allow me to do it as well.

NOW. In the SAME GAME I notched too quickly and moved my demolisher the wrong way, if I had gone the right way I could have side-arced the rear of an MC30 that I could have swarmed with firesprays and potentially had a chance of killing right at then end of the game with some good rolling, possibly making it an 8-2 win rather than a 7-3. I recognized the mistake the second I notched, I pointed it out to my opponent, had a laugh and moved my **** demolisher where I had notched it. I would NEVER expect someone to let me re-do a move like that after notching, I would NEVER expect an opponent to let me "take back" a move off the table and I would NEVER swear at an opponent for not letting me do those things (only at myself for making the mistake).

The person they talk about in the podcast not only notched, but also picked UP THE SHIP and put it down where he intended to move it and only after seeing the entire corner off the table try to reduce speed and re-do the move. Without even bothering to ask his opponent if it was "ok" to do. When the opponent said "sorry but no, it's dead" he started yelling, insulting and making ugly comments about his opponents character. He started holding up a few of these minor "missed opportunities" as justification for being automatically allowed to illegally keep the ship in play and when even the TO had to agree that rules is rules, he packed up his stuff and left at the end of that game (round 2).

I hope to never see anything that ugly at a tournament again.

The person they talk about in the podcast not only notched, but also picked UP THE SHIP and put it down where he intended to move it and only after seeing the entire corner off the table try to reduce speed and re-do the move. Without even bothering to ask his opponent if it was "ok" to do. When the opponent said "sorry but no, it's dead" he started yelling, insulting and making ugly comments about his opponents character. He started holding up a few of these minor "missed opportunities" as justification for being automatically allowed to illegally keep the ship in play and when even the TO had to agree that rules is rules, he packed up his stuff and left at the end of that game (round 2).

I hope to never see anything that ugly at a tournament again.

You must have missed the posted updates (posts 47 and 53 have most of the information). The player in question never touched the ship at all.

The person they talk about in the podcast not only notched, but also picked UP THE SHIP and put it down where he intended to move it and only after seeing the entire corner off the table try to reduce speed and re-do the move. Without even bothering to ask his opponent if it was "ok" to do. When the opponent said "sorry but no, it's dead" he started yelling, insulting and making ugly comments about his opponents character. He started holding up a few of these minor "missed opportunities" as justification for being automatically allowed to illegally keep the ship in play and when even the TO had to agree that rules is rules, he packed up his stuff and left at the end of that game (round 2).

I hope to never see anything that ugly at a tournament again.

You must have missed the posted updates (posts 47 and 53 have most of the information). The player in question never touched the ship at all.

Yes he did. I was there. I saw it.

The person they talk about in the podcast not only notched, but also picked UP THE SHIP and put it down where he intended to move it and only after seeing the entire corner off the table try to reduce speed and re-do the move. Without even bothering to ask his opponent if it was "ok" to do. When the opponent said "sorry but no, it's dead" he started yelling, insulting and making ugly comments about his opponents character. He started holding up a few of these minor "missed opportunities" as justification for being automatically allowed to illegally keep the ship in play and when even the TO had to agree that rules is rules, he packed up his stuff and left at the end of that game (round 2).

I hope to never see anything that ugly at a tournament again.

You must have missed the posted updates (posts 47 and 53 have most of the information). The player in question never touched the ship at all.

Yes he did. I was there. I saw it.

Going to add that the TO was over soon after the event happened, not at the end of the game. The game was played to completion after that.

Your memory of the even might be a little fuzzy and possibly modified by being influenced after the fact. Mine is crystal clear.

I can also add that while the match might have appeared easy going, with both players allowing what I refer to above as small missed opportunities, the player in question was remonstrating and bemoaning every good roll and kill his opponent made and being otherwise unsportsmanlike.

Would also also like to add that the player was VERY slap-dash in their movement on many occasions often picking up ships and putting them "approximately" where they might go even in situations where bumping his own ships or overlapping was extremely likely, and these were all let go (which he conveniently forgot about while swearing at someone else for his own incompetence.)

Okay, to quote myself earlier.

So before we get into an argument that is pointless and circular, as someone who has run events (though not for FFG in the past), I will say this:

1. Without actually witnessing the event itself, it is impossible to make a determination in this kind of circumstance. Context matters a lot, as well as the exact order of events, so all of the arguments on here are theoretical about what maybe kinda coulda woulda shoulda happened but who knows, or, in other words, pointless.

...

In short, opinions are like commanders: everyone has one.

Can we stop derailing this? All we have are imperfect alleged accounts (to be clear, this is not an accusation and I like everyone in this thread - it is a statement about the imperfection of the memories of our meat bodies and another strong argument for FFG issuing battle-droids to run tournaments); nobody has an audio recording, nobody took photos, nobody has a video.

Stop. Nobody can convince anyone what happened with 100% (hell, probably not even 50%) confidence here. There's no point.

I will agree with Reinholt on this and step aside from the thread. While I know what I saw this is not the place for such an argument and none us has hard evidence. I would ask who you were but that is also irrelevant at this point.

Okay, to quote myself earlier.

So before we get into an argument that is pointless and circular, as someone who has run events (though not for FFG in the past), I will say this:

• Without actually witnessing the event itself, it is impossible to make a determination in this kind of circumstance. Context matters a lot, as well as the exact order of events, so all of the arguments on here are theoretical about what maybe kinda coulda woulda shoulda happened but who knows, or, in other words, pointless.

...

In short, opinions are like commanders: everyone has one.

Can we stop derailing this? All we have are imperfect alleged accounts (to be clear, this is not an accusation and I like everyone in this thread - it is a statement about the imperfection of the memories of our meat bodies and another strong argument for FFG issuing battle-droids to run tournaments); nobody has an audio recording, nobody took photos, nobody has a video.

Stop. Nobody can convince anyone what happened with 100% (hell, probably not even 50%) confidence here. There's no point.

Agree, there's no point in further discussing details of this. I do like the discussion we've got going about our own experiences though. I too find myself in league night saying "I'm ok with you doing that, but be aware that you can't do it in a tournament". And I'm OK with someone telling me that as well.

So back to the podcast... IMHO saying Motti is the Admiral of choice for lazy players isn't a good description at all (I actually wasn't sure how in jest this was meant). Motti isn't just good because of his defensive ability - he's also good because he "frees up" points to spend on upgrades.

So back to the podcast... IMHO saying Motti is the Admiral of choice for lazy players isn't a good description at all (I actually wasn't sure how in jest this was meant). Motti isn't just good because of his defensive ability - he's also good because he "frees up" points to spend on upgrades.

To be fair, so does Ozzel. It's one of the 13 reasons that Dano loves him so much that he's throwing up an elaborate smokescreen to try to convince everyone else not to use him.

Ken-Obi - 90% joking about lazy motti. It's fine to play one because he's the cheap one, but I try (and mostly fail) to do something more with a leader. Motti's great in anything.

Dan is currently testing an Ozzel list with a thirty-seven point bid for second. He's not going to unveil it until after further testing though.

Dan is currently testing an Ozzel list with a thirty-seven point bid for second. He's not going to unveil it until after further testing though.

I think you may not sense a joke

This thread got crazy! Holy smokes.

Well, you guys do both make definitive statements and encourage people to say you're wrong...

That sets the background for regular, everyday shenanigans and craziness.

Funny I was putting together a theoretical raider/glad fleet and found Ozzel would be terrible for the list as getting crits for those APTs is so fundamentally crucial and Screed is more points efficient for that across 6 ships than ordnance experts.

I fully expect to get my ass handed to me with a list like this...

Funny I was putting together a theoretical raider/glad fleet and found Ozzel would be terrible for the list as getting crits for those APTs is so fundamentally crucial and Screed is more points efficient for that across 6 ships than ordnance experts.

I fully expect to get my ass handed to me with a list like this...

No way. There's a ton of successful lil' ship black dice chuckers lists going around these days. I blame clon. And Stah Wahs.

Funny I was putting together a theoretical raider/glad fleet and found Ozzel would be terrible for the list as getting crits for those APTs is so fundamentally crucial and Screed is more points efficient for that across 6 ships than ordnance experts.

I fully expect to get my ass handed to me with a list like this...

You are going the wrong way with it. Ignore Steve trying to misdirect you (yet more proof that the Jedi are evil...).

Ozzel (who we all know Dano loves) + Raiders with OE + Expanded Hangar Bays + Rhymer and TIE bombers as far as the eye can see. If you go second and hang back, all they have to shoot at are squadrons while they mosey in range of all those bombers. Then with Ozzel, you throttle up and deliver the killing blow the turn after the Rhymer Ball struck by moving forward after the other guy. You will lose one by going second, but the remainder plus another round of 12 black bomber dice should end it.

Black dice. Black dice as far as the eye can see, and plenty of OE raiders to clean off any squadrons that attack them. You can take 134 points of squadrons AND use the raiders as anti-squadron, so that's 134 points of bombers.

Funny I was putting together a theoretical raider/glad fleet and found Ozzel would be terrible for the list as getting crits for those APTs is so fundamentally crucial and Screed is more points efficient for that across 6 ships than ordnance experts.

I fully expect to get my ass handed to me with a list like this...

You are going the wrong way with it. Ignore Steve trying to misdirect you (yet more proof that the Jedi are evil...).

Ozzel (who we all know Dano loves) + Raiders with OE + Expanded Hangar Bays + Rhymer and TIE bombers as far as the eye can see. If you go second and hang back, all they have to shoot at are squadrons while they mosey in range of all those bombers. Then with Ozzel, you throttle up and deliver the killing blow the turn after the Rhymer Ball struck by moving forward after the other guy. You will lose one by going second, but the remainder plus another round of 12 black bomber dice should end it.

Black dice. Black dice as far as the eye can see, and plenty of OE raiders to clean off any squadrons that attack them. You can take 134 points of squadrons AND use the raiders as anti-squadron, so that's 134 points of bombers.

See, I already kind of do that, but with an ISD and a Demolisher which are more point efficient as carriers and dice chuckers and then I only need ordinance experts on the Demo and can use Ozzel for the creep-pounce.

Don't get me wrong, I'm still going to try the list, I'm just not convinced that *I'm* going to be any good with it!