This thread came out of a conversation I was having with some buddies:

None of us plays Imperial, but on paper Juno Eclipse seems quite good (TIe Advanced so it benefits from ATC, PS8, a ton of greens and an epic dial in general). Question is: what's the catch? How come nobody fields Juno or talks about Juno ?

The problem with Juno (at least in my eyes) is that she points wise competes with Vader.

If vader is on the field and you want another ship, then she is competing with Marek and Soontir.

She is "Eclipsed" by Vader.

How come nobody fields Juno or talks about Juno ?

And people do.

Well, I do.

And while her ability is nice, it's situational, where as Soontir or Vader's ability is used more. I've run her with Vader some and while she was good, she didn't really alter the game any and didn't really carry her weight enough for me to make her a go-to.

In general, non Vader TIE Advanced are still a little weak for their cost. Then consider that she is only one point cheaper than Darth Vader and they like similar loadouts, Darth Vader is always the better choice. She is difficult to justify when you can almost always take Vader instead. The difference is strong enough that it is most often worth it to save a point elsewhere if you can't fit Darth Vader.

In general, non Vader TIE Advanced are still a little weak for their cost. Then consider that she is only one point cheaper than Darth Vader and they like similar loadouts, Darth Vader is always the better choice. She is difficult to justify when you can almost always take Vader instead. The difference is strong enough that it is most often worth it to save a point elsewhere if you can't fit Darth Vader.

I feel like they fly different ships.

Juno can 1 turn, if Vader could 1 turn it would be a whole new ballgame, but at the moment he flies sometimes a bit too clunky, aldo no 1 straight? whats up with that, Juno fixes that.

Juno with Mk2 if shes stressed can just put it on 2 bank and then just decide which bank she REALLY wants to do. its all a mind game, and you win that mind game every time, because you can adjust to the board state.

I feel like shes not seen because she ends up being more reliant on not getting stressed from outside stress sources because (idk about you) but i fly her with PTL because if i want a Tie Adv Ace i want two actions (survival and TL) Because of the way it flies in close combat a TL a turn when at r1 is almost a necessity unless you K turn.

In general, non Vader TIE Adv are still a little weak for their cost.

Zertik Strom

Title

Sensor Jammer

Always worked well for me.

I feel like the TIE Advanced is the Imperial fantastic multirole fighter at the moment, I love mine. I have five. Juno is good but as said above... Vader is better and 1 point .. yeah. Strom, Alozen Colzet and Stele are all good wingmen though.

Juno's an excellent pilot. She also makes for one hell of a Proton Rocket delivery system.

My eternal enemy runs her alongside Vader and the Palpmobile, quite nasty.

A list with Juno won our last local tournament, so she seems to do quite well...

Here is the basic problem with any non-Vader TIE Advanced.

With the Title, you are going to take either Accuracy Corrector or Advanced Targeting Computer 99% of the time. If you take Accuracy Corrector, your pre-defense damage output is capped at 2 with no Crits. Granted you can use your Action and EPT to do other things, but 2 Hits are fairly easy to avoid altogether. You are doing the "death by a thousand cuts" thing which is frustrating. Now if you take Advanced Targeting Computer, you need to take a Target Lock, without any of the benefits it grants, just to get the thing to work. This kind of forces you to take a dice modification EPT so you aren't just relying on raw Attack dice rolls. Either way, you are kind of limited to TIE Fighter with Howlrunner damage output.

Vader with Predator and Advanced Targeting Computer alleviates this problem because he has ghetto Target Lock and a Focus to almost guarantee 2 Hits and a Crit every attack. That stressless Push the Limit every turn is just so powerful.

I'm not surprised by this at all. When Juno was leaked, everyone went crazy for her. I didn't think she was THAT great.

Soontir and Vader are better.

I love Juno and got 2nd place in a store championship with her a couple weeks ago. Vader is probably better in general but if you want him to be an arc dodger he really needs EU and paired with the obvious ATC he costs 34 pts. I'd argue Juno with VI and ATC at 30 pts is a better arc dodger than Vader at 34 because she moves after him and can basically get a free boost or reverse boost changing from a speed 2 to 3 or 1 depending on what the ship youre dodging does.

I'm not surprised by this at all. When Juno was leaked, everyone went crazy for her. I didn't think she was THAT great.

Soontir and Vader are better.

That happens a lot. Remember when Keyan Farlander was going to break the game?

I actually like her with AC and Juke. Of course its really only that good if you have a PS advantage so you can actually spend that evade on defense after offense. It does limit it you a lot to taking evade, but she does put out decent damage and can be kind of ignored.

Juke + AC Juno

Vader has the market cornered on ATC; you will not find a better pilot for it ever

Competition against Vader is rather cruel. For just one more point you could get Vaders two actions. Also, no autothrusters makes almost impossible to compete against Soontir.

This thread came out of a conversation I was having with some buddies:

None of us plays Imperial, but on paper Juno Eclipse seems quite good (TIe Advanced so it benefits from ATC, PS8, a ton of greens and an epic dial in general). Question is: what's the catch? How come nobody fields Juno or talks about Juno ?

Juno is awesome. Her ability rocks. Problem is that right now, her ability works best against lower PS pilots. And with the ATC, she needs Push the Limit to really shine, so you can't give her Veteran Instincts.

Juno with VI works, but requires some support. A Fleet officer perhaps, or perhaps once tracer missiles come out. I field Juno a lot, but usually alongside Vader. I like to run them BOTH together.

In general, non Vader TIE Adv are still a little weak for their cost.

you must be forgetting

Zertik Strom

Title

Sensor Jammer

Always worked well for me.

He's a little hard to kill, but when he's around you're taking focus anyways and that's a lot of points for only 2 dice and that dial. A buddy of mine played Zertik a ton for a while there and I outright ignored him.

I like vi accuracy corrector juno as a counter ace, in a mostly for fun list I fit that with a heavily upgraded redline and deathrain. I'm surprised she doesn't see more play now, but when the inquisitor comes out I think she may vanish entirely.

The real problem is two fold. First, you have to buy a Raider (I LOVE mine!), which many players have not. Second, the Raider came out in a sea of new stuff that was QUICKLY followed by more new stuff. It just got lost. I'm still pulling out pilots and upgrades I have not yet played with from the whirlwind. I really hope we never get that much new stuff that quickly ever again. I like having time to explore and enjoy things when I buy them.

My wallet cannot repel awesome of this magnitude! (Seriously, Imma gonna be buying wave 8 a month or 2 after the rest of us...).

A list with Juno won our last local tournament, so she seems to do quite well...

Could you throw a list my way pretty please?

*always curious*

This begs the question: Is Vader under-costed? I think maybe a little because is there any other ship I would take at his price point? No, not really. Vader with Title and ATC or a generic Defender? Vader. Naked Bounty Hunter or Vader? Vader. Fel or Vader? No wrong answer.

I actually like her with AC and Juke. Of course its really only that good if you have a PS advantage so you can actually spend that evade on defense after offense. It does limit it you a lot to taking evade, but she does put out decent damage and can be kind of ignored.

I really like that combo. I'm in the middle of listening to the S&V podcast about Juke and it was good timing. I might have to try that. It's good b/c she moves and evades, but can then pick the target she wants (as opposed to ATC and having to pick her target).

Juke + AC Juno

Vader has the market cornered on ATC; you will not find a better pilot for it ever

While you won't find a better ATC carrier than Vader, that doesn't mean it's bad on Juno. I can see she would be great for hunting down that other low PS pilot that she's got the TL on and being able to change her moves to still get that shot.

Juno is awesome. Her ability rocks. Problem is that right now, her ability works best against lower PS pilots. And with the ATC, she needs Push the Limit to really shine, so you can't give her Veteran Instincts.

Hmmm....I don't agree with the bit about PTL. I do agree with that she's better vs. lower PS pilots. She doesn't need PTL to really shine. Oh, there is that one round where she can't do another action as she has to grab the TL, but you could always go with Predator instead of PTL. Even if you go VI, that is only one round that she can't modify that much. Stay on the same target and you are good. She's well built to hunt down whomever she's got the TL on.

I do like that there are these other, really good pilots that AREN'T PS 9, though. Maybe someone will actually take someone that isn't PS 9 ?!?!

I feel like they fly different ships.

This completely. Just have a look:

Vader is there to keep certain ships down and hes a complete pitbull. BUT, at least IMO his dial sucks. I really get no joy from flying that thing. He gets outflown by plenty of ships of lower PS leaving you wishing he had access to those solid gold 1 speeds. And IF he does get stressed forget it.. its like which hand has the chocolate territory. Military IQ test and all that. No offense to the dark lord and praise the empra.

All that said yea vader is still really really good and thus the safe and no brainer option.