An aren't there any. Get form out of the emotions and desires of sentient beings. So unless there are no positive desires and no hope, love, caring, generosity and the like then I can't see why there are no "gods" that person these things other than flimsy writing. Has there ever been anything written on this?

The chaos gods embody positive emotions as well as negative ones. Khorne is anger yes, but also honor and determination. Nurgle embodies both decay and rebirth, joy yet also despair. Same goes for Slaanesh and Tzeentch with their respective emotions.

Its just that in 40k and the grim darkness of the far future the gods mostly pervert those positive emotions into their negative counterparts because those are more visceral and sustaining for the god or daemon in questio .

Don't make the mistake of attributing Good and Evil tags to anything in 40k...it's a largely fruitless exercise.

The Chaos Gods aren't Evil. They embody Chaos; Change and Unpredictability.

The Imperium of Man isn't Good. It embodies Law; Order and the continuation of the status quo.

Orks aren't Evil, they're primitive and brutal and represent an almost childlike state of being where self-gratification is the rule, but communal activity is the road to success.

The Eldar aren't Good, they're learned and wise and represent a higher state of consciousness, but also the prejudice against new things that comes with age.

So on and so forth.

no hope, love, caring, generosity and the like

Hope is the domain of Tzeentch. Hope that things will change which turns into making things change.

Love and caring are the domain of Nurgle. He loves and cares for all his children. Including the diseases.

Generosity is also the domain of Nurgle. You already know what he loves to share.

On the other hand, we've got the eldar gods, which are always to me a curiosity.

Do other species have gods? (some that exists in the Warp, I mean) If yes, why are they different from the chaos gods?

Do other species have gods? (some that exists in the Warp, I mean) If yes, why are they different from the chaos gods?

The Eldar had warp gods of their own. I think they got to be different because they were around first and were strong enough to prevent the main 3 (at the time) consuming them. When Slaanesh formed, most of them died, one got captured by Nurgle and the other survivor fled into the webway.

The Orks have Gork and Mork. Who are fuelled by Orks being Orks. There are enough Orks to sustain two gods that way, while the chaos gods have to fuel themselves with a mix of the emotions they represent from the various species of the galaxy.

Even putting aside that certain kinds of positive emotions can nurture the Ruinous Powers, the easiest answer is that within the setting of 40K, there are more negative emotions filtered into the Warp than positive ones, and the few beings who could come into existence from them are typically devoured by the more numerous negative entities. There are, and have been kind and caring warp entities before, with many of the eldar gods fitting the description. Of course, all but three were eaten by Slaanesh, and only one of the remaining can be seen as kind and benevolent in any way we would recognize.

The Orks have Gork and Mork. Who are fuelled by Orks being Orks. There are enough Orks to sustain two gods that way, while the chaos gods have to fuel themselves with a mix of the emotions they represent from the various species of the galaxy.

Even if each god can be considered that way in 40k, I considered that they were more a gestalt psychic miror of the orks species than some "conscious" concept.

e Eldar had warp gods of their own. I think they got to be different because they were around first and were strong enough to prevent the main 3 (at the time) consuming them. When Slaanesh formed, most of them died, one got captured by Nurgle and the other survivor fled into the webway.

I know about the eldar gods (they where the beginning of my post), but I asked myself: do other raes have.

And if they've got evil gods but very precise one, do they exists out of the great four, or are they just incarnation, etc.

For example, we "know" that the Yu'Vath where very powerful psychic beings that worshipped the Warp. If those xenos had worshipped precise concepts in their foulness, would they have created evil gods that aren't chaos gods.

Even if each god can be considered that way in 40k, I considered that they were more a gestalt psychic miror of the orks species than some "conscious" concept.

My understanding is that all the warp gods are gestalt of related thoughts and emotions being mirrored in the warp. The difference is the theme that links the thoughts and emotions together to form the god. For the chaos gods, the link is at a basic level (for example, people desiring to kill other people) with significant differences between each individual thought. For Orks, the linking theme is stronger because there is less variation in how Orks think, meaning more thoughts following a theme of "orkiness", meaning less variation in the thoughts that make up the Ork gods.

For example, we "know" that the Yu'Vath where very powerful psychic beings that worshipped the Warp. If those xenos had worshipped precise concepts in their foulness, would they have created evil gods that aren't chaos gods.

The forum ate part of my post. I'll try and redo it:

Three possible reasons that could have stopped them:

- Too much variation within Yu'Vath thoughts for a warp god feeding only on them to have a cohesive theme.

- Not enough Yu'Vath. Eldar ruled the galaxy at their height. Orks are probably the most populous species in M41. Only humans come close to having similar numbers.

- A god of their started forming. But the thoughts in it were similar enough to that of the Chaos gods that they ate it. The Eldar and Orks date back to the Old Ones, when the warp was calmer and the Chaos gods weren't around to eat their gods.

Indeed. A xenos species worshipping a murderous war god - whatever they call it - will essentially contribute to Khorne.

You could also argue that the Hive Mind is relatively similar in nature to a 'god'

You could also argue that the Hive Mind is relatively similar in nature to a 'god'

Yes, that was an other of my reflexions, because in the end, it's the psychic gestalt of all the "conscience" of the Tyranids.

Are there any emotions / thought patterns that aren't already with the purview of the chaos gods ?

Because those are the things that could form a new warp god if they happen enough. Just like they did with Slaanesh.

Indeed. A xenos species worshipping a murderous war god - whatever they call it - will essentially contribute to Khorne.

Back around 2nd Edition 40K, it was pretty strongly implied that Khaine was just a variant interpretation of Khorne- hence the similarity between the symbol on the Avatar of Khaine's forehead and the Khornate stylized skull symbol.

With that in mind, I've been toying with the concept that Gork and Mork are just Orky misinterpretations of Chaos gods: Gork, the god of strength and endurance, is actually an amalgam of Khorne and Nurgle, while Mork, the god of cunning and speed, is a conflation of Tzeench and Slaanesh. This is almost certainly wrong, but the concept amuses me...

Also, I kinda miss the concept (from very early in WFB) of Chaos being opposed by Law a la Michael Moorcock's fantasy cosmology. When the Necrons first appeared, I was hoping that they were going to represent the Terrible Lords of Order (sort of a 'be careful what you wish for' faction), but alas no...

According to the new Ork Codex at least, Gork and Mork are entities within the warp and do fight against the Chaos Gods, though from what I know they do not participate in the Great Game.

Back around 2nd Edition 40K, it was pretty strongly implied that Khaine was just a variant interpretation of Khorne- hence the similarity between the symbol on the Avatar of Khaine's forehead and the Khornate stylized skull symbol.

But on the other hand, eldars don't seem to be corrupted by the presence of veneration of khorne. They could be conceptually linked, without being the same entity.

Are there any emotions / thought patterns that aren't already with the purview of the chaos gods ?

Not really, but all the chaos gods are mere collections of a few fitting concepts. I think a more specialised god could exist.

For example, Malice (once called Malal) isn't very much mentionned anymore, but there are many hints in many places about it, where they say he is the hierarch of anarchy and terror. On the other hand, terror and anarchy are pretty much concepts that can be attributed to all the great fours, but if energies and concepts would be so numerous and strong, they could either become a major part of a chaos god's nature, or create a new one with this specificity in mind.

An aren't there any. Get form out of the emotions and desires of sentient beings. So unless there are no positive desires and no hope, love, caring, generosity and the like then I can't see why there are no "gods" that person these things other than flimsy writing. Has there ever been anything written on this?

Originally when the writers sat down to create the 40K universe the Chaos gods were neither good nor evil. Each of the four major Gods represented a dual nature in the universe.

Khorne, for example, was the god of blood and the god of martial honour. He encouraged his followers to meet their opponants in hand to hand combat rather than cowering behind fortifications. He also took a very dim view of his followers slaughtering those who couldn't defend themselves. Sadly this duality has slowly been scrubbed from the background and now Khorne 'doesn't care where the blood flows from as long as it flows' and all of his followers are now psychopathic murderers.

Basically the Warp reflects the emotions and beliefs of the sentient species that inhabit the material universe. Faith is one of the main pillars that the 40K universe rests on. The Emperor protects because millions and millions of humans across the galaxy believe that he does. IMHO GW would probably say that negative emotions and faith resonate in the Warp more than possitive emotions do which is why the main four Chaos Gods tend to reflect their negative nature while at the same time demanding worship from their followers.

Khorne, for example, was the god of blood and the god of martial honour. He encouraged his followers to meet their opponants in hand to hand combat rather than cowering behind fortifications. He also took a very dim view of his followers slaughtering those who couldn't defend themselves. Sadly this duality has slowly been scrubbed from the background and now Khorne 'doesn't care where the blood flows from as long as it flows' and all of his followers are now psychopathic murderers.

He was also the god of discipline, courage and such...so he didn't take well to berserkers.

When you look at the world eaters of the past, they where fighting with boltguns, lascanon and...the equipment used by any other chaos space marines legions.

But it is important to mention that 40k was not very "grimdark" in that time and was much more "sci fi" than anything else.

Khorne, for example, was the god of blood and the god of martial honour. He encouraged his followers to meet their opponants in hand to hand combat rather than cowering behind fortifications. He also took a very dim view of his followers slaughtering those who couldn't defend themselves. Sadly this duality has slowly been scrubbed from the background and now Khorne 'doesn't care where the blood flows from as long as it flows' and all of his followers are now psychopathic murderers.

He was also the god of discipline, courage and such...so he didn't take well to berserkers.

When you look at the world eaters of the past, they where fighting with boltguns, lascanon and...the equipment used by any other chaos space marines legions.

But it is important to mention that 40k was not very "grimdark" in that time and was much more "sci fi" than anything else.

IMHO things were still 'grimdark' but things were also less black and white. I feel that the 40K universe has gone through some quite significant changes over the years as the original writers have moved on and have been replaced. I certainly feel that aspects of some races/factions have been played down especialy when it comes to Chaos. Basically Chaos became more evil, Space Marines became more heroic etc etc.

Khorne, for example, was the god of blood and the god of martial honour. He encouraged his followers to meet their opponants in hand to hand combat rather than cowering behind fortifications. He also took a very dim view of his followers slaughtering those who couldn't defend themselves. Sadly this duality has slowly been scrubbed from the background and now Khorne 'doesn't care where the blood flows from as long as it flows' and all of his followers are now psychopathic murderers.

He was also the god of discipline, courage and such...so he didn't take well to berserkers.

When you look at the world eaters of the past, they where fighting with boltguns, lascanon and...the equipment used by any other chaos space marines legions.

But it is important to mention that 40k was not very "grimdark" in that time and was much more "sci fi" than anything else.

See that's what I'm driving at. It used to be less grimdark. Everything has changed and been retconned over the years and not in a good way. Canon has been changed, which I absolutely hate by the way. Some may like this new direction but I certainly don't. Which is why I've started moving things back from the grimderp precipice in my own campaign.

I personally enjoy the grimdarkness the setting is at right now, but I also tend to be tongue in cheek about it, as-is my group.

I certainly feel that aspects of some races/factions have been played down especialy when it comes to Chaos. Basically Chaos became more evil, Space Marines became more heroic etc etc.

I disagree in part with you; Chaos are still dual natures. They are just more extreme than they were, and that pleases me more because they are more "incomprehensible" than before. But I don't like the extremes to which this push characters in the game.

See that's what I'm driving at. It used to be less grimdark. Everything has changed and been retconned over the years and not in a good way. Canon has been changed, which I absolutely hate by the way. Some may like this new direction but I certainly don't. Which is why I've started moving things back from the grimderp precipice in my own campaign.

I think a lot of stuff was retconned in a good way. Others not. That depends on people's preferences. I personnaly like more the general feel of 40k now, but there are olds things that were nice that aren't there anymore.

And remember:

-There is no canon.

-Grimdark isn't necessarily grimderp.

I certainly understand that it's all a matter of opinion. I prefer 40k that was to 40k that is personally. And I've never understood why game developers and story writers change canon. I like things that don't change. They change canon and it makes at least some people's understanding of the setting a moving target. Things you thought were set in stone are no longer true. Ah well. It seems my opinion is very much in the minority here.

And I've never understood why game developers and story writers change canon.

The reason that the fluff changed that "fast" in 40k is that there is no canon. Each writers and game developpers bring the universe in different facets that reflects his preferences, hence the universe changing from a person to an other. The same is true for my perception and yours.

Ask Lynata and I, or Dan Abnett and Gav Thorpe.

I certainly feel that aspects of some races/factions have been played down especialy when it comes to Chaos. Basically Chaos became more evil, Space Marines became more heroic etc etc.

I disagree in part with you; Chaos are still dual natures. They are just more extreme than they were, and that pleases me more because they are more "incomprehensible" than before. But I don't like the extremes to which this push characters in the game.

I'm not claiming to an expert on current 40K lore but I do feel that GW has dumbed the Chaos gods down. Khorne itsn't more extreme when it comes to martial honour for instance. The writers have just pushed the negative aspect of each god more heavily IMHO.