So I started out as a Makashi duelist which is pretty cool so far I've invested all the way down to dedication and the feints so I was wondering what my second form should be. I was thinking Ataru striker since linked+dual wielding is pretty awesome for that ridiculous damage + dodge is pretty nice as well or Shien expert for a little more versatility (Improved reflect, counter strike, side step) Though if anyone has any others that they think would work well don't hesitate to speak.

Thoughts...?

Force and Destiny classes only please

Shien or Soresu are nice because that round buff your Reflect, something Makashi lacks. Niman is nice as well, as you also get a Force Rating out of it.

Personally I'm a big fan of Armorer for a Lightsaber user, toughens you up and gives you Sabre Throw. It also boosts your checks to modify your Lightsaber Crystal. It provides the extra Force Rating, and Imbue Item is a great short term use for a Lightsaber User as its only a maneuver to activate.

But it depends on what your characteristics are, and what your character concept is.

Personally I'm a big fan of Armorer for a Lightsaber user, toughens you up and gives you Sabre Throw. It also boosts your checks to modify your Lightsaber Crystal. It provides the extra Force Rating, and Imbue Item is a great short term use for a Lightsaber User as its only a maneuver to activate.

But it depends on what your characteristics are, and what your character concept is.

I agree the armorer is a great 1st or 2nd skill set to take. They modify weapons and armor for the rest of the party. Then turn around and be the ship's mechanic.

If you want to boost what you've already got in terms of lightsaber prowess, Niman Disciple is a very nice option. 3 ranks of Parry and Reflect, two ranks of Defensive Training to boost up your melee defense and increase the odds of getting Improved Parry to go off, as well as a Force Rating increase and some nice talents to further bolster your character's social acumen (such as Nobody's Fool to defend vs. social skills and Sense Emotions to boost your own).

To be perfectly honest, I wouldn't take a second light saber tree. After fleshing out one tree you're already going to be pretty bad ass with a light saber. You can certainly take more, but there's more interesting things to take. Sure you can become the most awesome of the awesomest saber fighters, but unless your whole team is also going pure combat you will just be throwing things out of balance at the expense of much more interesting and flavorful talent trees.

Niman Disciple is a very nice option. 3 ranks of Parry and Reflect, two ranks of Defensive Training to boost up your melee defense and increase the odds of getting Improved Parry to go off, as well as a Force Rating increase

I was thinking that too the only tiny issue was the one wasted skill I have to get to get everything else

Niman Disciple is a very nice option. 3 ranks of Parry and Reflect, two ranks of Defensive Training to boost up your melee defense and increase the odds of getting Improved Parry to go off, as well as a Force Rating increase

I was thinking that too the only tiny issue was the one wasted skill I have to get to get everything else

Skill or Talent?

If you're referring to the Niman Technique talent, don't overlook the ability to switch your Lightsaber skill over to another characteristic, as there are critical injury results that penalize specific characteristics by increasing the difficulty of checks made using that trait, or outright reduce the trait (temporarily or even permanently), so being able to switch to something else to avoid those penalties is nothing to sneeze at.

And even then, it's only 10 XP for the talent, which unless your GM is incredibly stingy with XP awards is a drop in the bucket.

a 10 point exp tax shouldn't discourage what is otherwise a good option.

Personally, I would never pick two LS trees in a row, often I get a more significant benefit from a tree that enhances other characteristics that can be linked into it. Ever considered Seer? The extra boost to force rating (a max of 3) a stack of abilities that improves your ability to go first and some cool force talents that allows you to directly weave the force into how you fight and some other cool abilties. Locked with an inquistor? Flip a destiny point after the stormtroopers have fired to step away, allowing another to take a clear pot shot at the big I without being shot in the back. Essentially it adds an extra layer of options

As for lightsaber forms? Depends. Ataru is interesting but really strain intensive and probably ultimately it isn't worth investing too heavily into it (because the user lacks the skills to make dodge work without either sidestep or defensive stance.). Shi-cho Knight is suprisingly good as despite not offering any reflects has a bit of built in strain recovery and has a number of power place, including sweeps and battlemaster to offset being outnumbered. Nimen allows for some cool tricks while improving on defensive fighting and should be a prime pick. Everything else form related just isn't really that good to warrent blowing another tree on it.

Really the question you need to answer is what kind of lightsaber user do you want to be? What kind of jedi are you going for? Are you looking to be acrobatic? are you looking to be more about throwing force powers around? etc. Answer these and it will give you a more clear direction. Who is your character? how do they approach being a jedi?

Skill or Talent?

If you're referring to the Niman Technique talent, don't overlook the ability to switch your Lightsaber skill over to another characteristic, as there are critical injury results that penalize specific characteristics by increasing the difficulty of checks made using that trait, or outright reduce the trait (temporarily or even permanently), so being able to switch to something else to avoid those penalties is nothing to sneeze at.

And even then, it's only 10 XP for the talent, which unless your GM is incredibly stingy with XP awards is a drop in the bucket.

Adding to Donovan's point, you can't use lightsaber/willpower skills without having the Niman talent. This was outlined by the Devs in the FAQ. They specifically mentioned in the FAQ you can't use Hawk Bat Swoop without buying the Ataru talent. So if you bypassed the Niman talent and worked your way down the tree, you wouldn't be able to use Draw Closer because it uses a lightsaber/willpower roll. So unless you're only interested in the more basic talents, it behooves you to pick up the form talent.

Who is your character? how do they approach being a jedi?

He is highly skilled in a particular art (twin sword style) and seeks to help those who had lost much to imperial rule and is conflicted with his innate duelist's nature of enjoying the thrill of a fight (Wants to help and protect, but sometimes cant't resist a good fight)

Skill or Talent?

If you're referring to the Niman Technique talent, don't overlook the ability to switch your Lightsaber skill over to another characteristic, as there are critical injury results that penalize specific characteristics by increasing the difficulty of checks made using that trait, or outright reduce the trait (temporarily or even permanently), so being able to switch to something else to avoid those penalties is nothing to sneeze at.

And even then, it's only 10 XP for the talent, which unless your GM is incredibly stingy with XP awards is a drop in the bucket.

This was outlined by the Devs in the FAQ. They specifically mentioned in the FAQ you can't use Hawk Bat Swoop without buying the Ataru talent. So if you bypassed the Niman talent and worked your way down the tree, you wouldn't be able to use Draw Closer because it uses a lightsaber/willpower roll.

Could you send me a link it may answer a few more of my questions. It just the wording is so direct when it comes to lightsaber replacement skills "may use *insert characteristic* instead of brawl on lightsaber skill checks"

As for lightsaber forms? Depends. Ataru is interesting but really strain intensive and probably ultimately it isn't worth investing too heavily into it (because the user lacks the skills to make dodge work without either sidestep or defensive stance.).

My character has intense presence for strain recovery and has improved parry to make use of threats. Tho I'm not sure what you mean by that last part in parentheses

Could you send me a link it may answer a few more of my questions. It just the wording is so direct when it comes to lightsaber replacement skills "may use *insert characteristic* instead of brawl on lightsaber skill checks"

Pg 152 of the FaD core.

Could you send me a link it may answer a few more of my questions. It just the wording is so direct when it comes to lightsaber replacement skills "may use *insert characteristic* instead of brawl on lightsaber skill checks"

Pg 152 of the FaD core.

Ahh okay slipped past me there not very noticeable, but to be clear i can still use one of those talents say, hawk bat swoop, and substitute the the lightsaber check for presence since it's still a lightsaber skill check?

Who is your character? how do they approach being a jedi?

He is highly skilled in a particular art (twin sword style) and seeks to help those who had lost much to imperial rule and is conflicted with his innate duelist's nature of enjoying the thrill of a fight (Wants to help and protect, but sometimes cant't resist a good fight)

Then Soresu defender would be good then. allows you to use various talents to protect others...

Ahh okay slipped past me there not very noticeable, but to be clear i can still use one of those talents say, hawk bat swoop, and substitute the the lightsaber check for presence since it's still a lightsaber skill check?

No you can't substitute a trait that is specifically named, aka you can't use Hawk Bat Swoop with Presence if you have the Makashi talent.

FAQ Link

There's the link the the FAQ. However to save time, I'll copy paste exactly what was said:

Lightsaber Techniques

Question asked by dfn:

Assuming I have Niman Technique and then later get Defensive Circle, may I use Lightsaber (Will) for Defensive Circle? Assuming my only specialization is Ataru Striker, and I have Hawk Bat Swoop but DO NOT have Ataru Technique, is the check for Hawk Bat Swoop still Lightsaber (Agility)? Thanks!

Answered by Sam Stewart:

To answer your first question; no, you must use Lightsaber (Intellect) for Defensive Circle. To answer your second question, you cannot use the Hawk Bat Swoop action unless you have a talent that allows you to make a Lightsaber (Agility) check.

When a talent calls out a "Lightsaber check", you can use Brawn (normally) or another characteristic you have the appropriate X Technique talent for.

Examples: Saber Throw and Sarlacc Sweep.

When a talent calls out a "Lightsaber (X) check", you must use 'X' characteristic to benefit from that talent.

Examples: All of them except Saber Throw and Sarlacc Sweep.

As for lightsaber forms? Depends. Ataru is interesting but really strain intensive and probably ultimately it isn't worth investing too heavily into it (because the user lacks the skills to make dodge work without either sidestep or defensive stance.).

My character has intense presence for strain recovery and has improved parry to make use of threats. Tho I'm not sure what you mean by that last part in parentheses

Yeah, thats a once a session deal. But then there don't usually tend to be that many fights in a day. The last part simply means that I'm not sure whether you have enough upgrades to be worth investing in red dice shenanigans. Though dodge and the like are useful for reducing their avalible successes/advantages.