This is my current thinking to use a VSD. In this list, the VSD acts as body guard to the ISD hanging slightly back from the leading ISD and hammering whatever engages it. The Raider helps with cleaning up squadrons and objective grabbing.

So far, it's working out.

I want that ship.......

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 392/400

Commander: Darth Vader

Assault Objective: Advanced Gunnery
Defense Objective: Contested Outpost
Navigation Objective: Dangerous Territory

[ flagship ] Imperial II-Class Star Destroyer (120 points)
- Darth Vader ( 36 points)
- Relentless ( 3 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Electronic Countermeasures ( 7 points)
- XI7 Turbolasers ( 6 points)
- SW 7 Ion Batteries ( 5 points)

Victory II-Class Star Destroyer (85 points)

Raider-I Class Corvette (44 points)
- Instigator ( 4 points)
- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)

3 Aggressor Assault Fighters ( 48 points)
1 Bossk ( 23 points)

....

what composition of squadrons and number do you consider is the minimum for protecting your flanks and attacking a flanking corvette and MC30 and winning that battle 70% of the time?

Others can feel free to chime in.

From a rebel player point of view:

I want to isolate your fleet one ship at a time and kill you piecemeal (even with my gunnery team AFmk2). So although a vic is a very points efficient carrier, it's immobility places a weakness in you fleet that I can exploit. So I will be looking to draw out your faster elements and then hit the components in isolation.

And if the Imperial player lets you bait them like that, they don't deserve the win. A good Imperial player is going to know that the VSD is slow and clunky. It cannot respond to fast-moving threats. That's why you never leave it by itself. Ever.

Taking the VSD as a dedicated carrier means one of three things - you're taking multiple Vics with a LOT of fighters/bombers, you're using it to support a gun-toting ISD, or it's your flagship and you're spending your points on GSDs and RDRs.

Option one, you're not going to isolate any ships. Three VSD carriers are probably going to have Boosted Comms, meaning their threat range is far beyond that of your red dice. They'll probably castle up somewhere and let the bombers do the heavy lifting, maybe trading shots against you at Long range. There's no reason to advance and allow yourself to be drawn out. The fast bait ships are either going to stay at range with a handful of red dice and plink shields, or increase their threat level by making a fast flanking maneuver. If it's the latter, I wouldn't even bother to turn and face them. The bombers are faster, and can destroy CR90s and MC30cs pretty quickly. The AFs would be the bigger threat, so with good deployment and decent maneuvering, the VSDs should be able to keep them from flanking.

Option two, that'll be a tough thing to isolate. If it's commanding squadrons so an up-gunned ISD doesn't have to, it's going to be hiding right behind Big Brother. AFs are not fast enough to dodge around an ISDs front arc without suffering a lot of damage, and if you're focusing your efforts to kill the VSD, you're ignore the much more powerful ISD. However, the ISD will take longer to kill and the VSD will be throwing it's own respectable battery dice and squadrons at you. Again, there is no reason to separate the two and allow either to be isolated.

Option three, I probably have more ships than you in this scenario. If a VSD is my flagship, the rest of the fleet is likely GSDs and RDRs, so the strategy would be flipped. The VSD would probably be the bait, because its lack of speed and its clunkiness mean it's a tempting target. So if you rush in to kill it, then I'm the one flanking and isolating with my faster ships.

I'm not saying I'd be guaranteed victory in these scenarios. I'm just arguing that the VSD is not an easy thing to isolate and kill if the admiral knows how to use it. Proper deployment and early maneuvering will make it very difficult to exploit the weakness of the VSD, its lack of maneuverability. But combined with squadrons and more maneuverable ships, it is a cost-efficient anvil that can put out very respectable damage and suffer a lot in return. Bear in mind, the VSD has the same hull and almost as many shields at the Rebels' toughest ship. And as a dedicated carrier with Boosted Comms, it doesn't have to move.

@Admiral : I'm currently playing with a 1:1 ratio on squadron activations and number of Squadrons (with Rogues and Villains on top of that). I'm also playing with 1 TIE Bomber per Wing for Victories and Imperial SD. It keeps the Wings versatile and less easily counterable

It has yet to disappoint me to be honest. I'm ensuring complète squadron superiority, and they significantly contribute to the number of VPs I can score from the opponent squadrons as well as his ships.
Last game 2 TIE F and a Bomber allowed me to get a double CR90 kill at med range from a Vic 2 with EA by moving into the side arc to help dispatch one CR while rhe other one was in my front arc.

I dont think Squadrons alone are sufficient to deter an MC30, but them combined with a buffed side arc is quite interesting.

EDIT : Obviously, 3 of them are going to start to be interesting if you can position them the turn prior to be where the MC30 will want to be so they can shoot without activation in the squadron phase. Although at this point I'd rather activate them first with a command because the MC30 is probably going to be in long range of its intended spot unless it's at speed 4 out of range.

Ironkenics beat me too it! There were 6 VSD's in the top 4 and 1 ISD. If we stretch that out to top 5 (because top 4 was the main prize pool) there were 9 VSDs. 9 VSD in the top 5.

There were definitely more VSD overall than ISD but there were ISDs and good players at the helm. There were of Mc80, a few Akbar and loads of Bombers. So why so many VSD in the top spots?

Cost efficiency.

ISD takes up to much room. 4 ship ISD is possible if you skimp a lot on the 3 other ships and your squads. 3 ship ISD gives a token Fireball or decent Generic Bomber/Counter Squadron complement.

3 ship VSD gets you a full strength Fireball and x2 other ships partially to fully upgraded, depending on the Ship Size. 3/4 Top 4 lists were Bomber heavey. One Fireball (mine) and two Generic Bomber Rhymer Balls. Boosted Comms lets you pound Large Ships, from out of ship range, which are not defensively better than a VSD against Bombers. Then at long range the VSD can throw 5 Red Dice with the correct positioning. I have also found the VSD much easier at long range (compared to ISD) because a) it's smaller and easier to place to get a double arc at long range b) it is less susepcitble to return fire because of it's small base

Interestingly the non Fireball VSD list (3rd place) beat out an ISD list in the second round. It was 2 VSD I, 1 Glad II all upgraded plus a naked Raider I. His fighters were Bobba, Ties & Vader. I'm thinking 4 ships gave him the advantage there.

A sidenote: Akbar, to my knowledge, placed way up at 9th or 10th. I think a Dodona Scrugg was 8th. Akbar almost never places in Australia, never 1st to my knowledge.

What exactly is a fireball?

Rhymer and Firesprays

This interests me....tell me more?

Good poitns Trizzo !

I'd like to add to the fact that ISDs are not that much harder to counter than a VSD. Sure the low speed and maneuvrability of the VSD might make it seem easily counterable, but it's not that much easier to counter than an ISD due to having the same reliance on close/medium range and when you measure both threat ranges, the ISD's speed 3 makes it even easier to counter due to making overshooting the front arc even easier.

Ironically, the more I'm playing ISDs, the more I'm going back to Victories.

It is an interesting dynamic that both the VSD and ISD have most of their firepower in a forward arc and mostly medium range, when it is almost to easy to move to fire from a side arc. The Rebels have a major advantage here as SD side arcs are far to weak.

It's a game mechanic that seems odd.

It is an interesting dynamic that both the VSD and ISD have most of their firepower in a forward arc and mostly medium range, when it is almost to easy to move to fire from a side arc. The Rebels have a major advantage here as SD side arcs are far to weak.

It's a game mechanic that seems odd.

No sir, that is called balance.

I'm trying to see if I can secure 2-3 more Victory Models so I could run either 4 or 5 Vics at the Store Champs, just to mess with people's heads.

I'm trying to see if I can secure 2-3 more Victory Models so I could run either 4 or 5 Vics at the Store Champs, just to mess with people's heads.

I'm considering the same tbh...

the bay sells em real cheap...like 18 bucks for the ship/stand/card no upgrade.

Unfortunately, unless I rake in a quick commission, I can't even afford that But I at least pre-paid my tourney fee yesterday to secure that.

You could run 4 Victory 2's with Ties...or run five Victory 1's with no fighters and Motti.

Oh my lord...Imagine seeing a wave of five Victory 1's....just coming at you in a swarm...

That is exactly the idea.

Oh my lord...Imagine seeing a wave of five Victory 1's....just coming at you in a swarm...

You could run them in a wave..and just smash into the side of someone...oh big woop you killed a Victory...I have 4 more!

I'm trying 5 VSD's on Vassal right now. Will make sure I save the log too.

5 VSDs is just. . .it's just. . .mean. Fifty hull points? ****, son. At that point, just line 'em up and fly forward at speed two. Then start unloading black dice. Sure, it'll be hard to bring more than two ships to focus on a single target, but there's just no way your opponent can cut through all of that hull.

And the arc thing is very balanced. The VSD (73/85 points) has as many front arc dice as the MC80 (106/114) has side arc, and it has the same hull, and it's about as maneuverable (which is to say, not very maneuverable). Sure, if you get past the VSD, it's in a lot of trouble. But if you get in front of the MC80 and lock it down with ramming, it's screwed. Actually, a VSD-I outguns either MC80 variant at close range. Black dice have a much higher damage potential than any other dice.

lol, 5 VSD1s and Motti. This could go very well, or very badly.

You can even put in an incredibly stupid 11 point initiative bid to make sure you are moving first and last almost all of the time.

Here's the vassal file of my 5 VSD-I game. I made a few mistakes (like taking second player, putting VSD #2 at such an angle, and trying to chase his ships down after they'd swung out of the way) but overall the list is super fun. Not sure it'd do particularly well into Squad heavy lists. Maybe dropping the two APTs would help, they didn't do much at all (got no black crits on the two equipped ones...), but they seem like they'd help add that little bit more punch.

i see the VSD as the same role as a Neb B, its a brawler ship with a limited lifespan, its job is to deal as much damage as possible and then die, when you deploy it consider it written off as dead

That is exactly the idea.

2 or 3 of which would never shoot or be a real threat.