What are you guy's thoughts on putting Ordance Tubes onto the Raider or CR90?

Doug

What are yours?

I think it depends what you load them with of course. And how the rest of your list is kitted out.

I guess it would depend if I went with missiles or torpedoes. And probably if I wanted it to be a close in firing ship or a more of a long range shooter.

I think for close in...meaning range 1-2, then Cluster missiles...3 Attack dice done twice...why not eh?

Long Range...2-3...probably Proton Torpedoes.

One advantage I see to this and I could be wrong...is I didn't see anything about having to spend energy to shoot...just spend the Target Lock, which I can see being helpful when it comes to shooting. My way of thinking is based on my historical gaming side...such as the old masted warships doing broadsides...such as the larger ships...Raider vs CR90 doing broadsides...lol.

What are you guy's thoughts on putting Ordance Tubes onto the Raider or CR90?

Doug

They're amazing if you have the ship built right. Being able to save all of your energy for shield regens is amazing.

You HAVE to have Weapons Engineer on it for the Target Locks, and munitions that don't spend the TL are amazing. You can shoot at a single ship up to three times in one round without giving up anything given the ship is in both forward and rear arcs. I use Homing Missiles on mine, because it denies the evade tokens, doesn't spend the TL, and it's four dice.

Ordnance Experts and Gunnery Team are amazing, and given the lack of options for teams, pretty much guaranteed.

If you're worried about the opposing epic ship, take Ion Pulse Missiles instead. Shoot the epic three times with those every round and watch it's energy stores disappear into deep space.

I think it depends what you load them with of course.

3 copies of Advanced Proton Torpedoes

That makes sense right?

Loading them up with Assault Missiles sounds like a lot of fun.

I think it depends what you load them with of course.

3 copies of Advanced Proton Torpedoes

That makes sense right?

For the ultimate troll bid. We don't need no stinking weapons.

What are you guy's thoughts on putting Ordance Tubes onto the Raider or CR90?

Doug

They're amazing if you have the ship built right. Being able to save all of your energy for shield regens is amazing.

You HAVE to have Weapons Engineer on it for the Target Locks, and munitions that don't spend the TL are amazing. You can shoot at a single ship up to three times in one round without giving up anything given the ship is in both forward and rear arcs. I use Homing Missiles on mine, because it denies the evade tokens, doesn't spend the TL, and it's four dice.

Ordnance Experts and Gunnery Team are amazing, and given the lack of options for teams, pretty much guaranteed.

If you're worried about the opposing epic ship, take Ion Pulse Missiles instead. Shoot the epic three times with those every round and watch it's energy stores disappear into deep space.

Yeah...you're right. I thought for some reason that all missiles/ torpedoes had to spend the TL to shoot. But I guess not...interesting.

Maybe on the CR-90 but then again because I already put Weapons Engineer on it for Hans(crew).

So the tubes, well they work like black dice in Armada as in short range so great for filling that range 1-2 gap that your huge ships often have unless you fit both sections with Quad Laser Turret Batteries.

However they still are huge ship dice and huge ships need those target locks because they can't hit with focus results. As for saving energy Gunnery Team allows you to spend 1 energy to change 1 blank to a hit but you are still paying energy and it isn't that much of a dice modification compared to a target lock. Also not much cheaper considering that the modification cost 5 points. By the time you put that mod and proton torpedo you might as well just have spent those points on an Ion Cannon Battery.

I like them because they aren't expendable and they're on a ship that's solid enough to hang around for a while, the two drawbacks to their use on snub fighters. Also, I love how they give me close-in weapon support, like my "little friend" I served with in the Navy (that also resembled an astromech), the CIWS.

I like the look of Cluster Missiles on the Corvette to fill the Range 1-2 gap but I freely admit I have not tried it out properly to see how well it works in practice. I like the idea of being able to save energy tokens for important stuff (like shields or the Treadwell droid).

You HAVE to have Weapons Engineer on it for the Target Locks, and munitions that don't spend the TL are amazing. You can shoot at a single ship up to three times in one round without giving up anything given the ship is in both forward and rear arcs.

How does the 3 times work out? Is that by equipping every hardpoint with ordnance?

Loading them up with Assault Missiles sounds like a lot of fun.

If 'fun' means leaving your own fighters cowering in fear in the opposite corner.

I like them because they aren't expendable and they're on a ship that's solid enough to hang around for a while, the two drawbacks to their use on snub fighters. Also, I love how they give me close-in weapon support, like my "little friend" I served with in the Navy (that also resembled an astromech), the CIWS.

I want such an astromech.

on Punishing one.

So that I can pour dakka while I pour dakka!

I don't think you should load up with too many ordnance tubes to replace your other hardpoint weapons. I think one is enough. One of the reasons is the Target Lock. Even with Weapons Eng. you still only get two out there. I think I'd rather have other tools in the tool box. Other weapons go to longer range. Quad Lasers are better for short range. Also, all the various tools to help change the die results (Ordnance Teams, etc) work only once a turn, which means you could just flub your dice. POSSIBLY if you go with two Homing Missiles, but you still have the issue of range. I'd rather have a well rounded toolbox.

Oh, I wouldn't recommend Cluster Missiles on an Epic ship. Your ability to modify the dice is really slim. Range 1-2 is a bit hard on Epic ships, from what I've seen. I'd rather go with Quad Lasers and use the Energy for close up enemy.

There are a lot of different ordnance that works for epic ships. You have to think about what you want to accomplish. Is it just damage? Reliable damage? Control? Anti-epic ship?

Homing Missiles is the most reliable damage and works especially well vs. elite ships.

Proton Torpedoes are very good, as well. You get to modify at least 1 eyeball result, which other ways to modify dice the dice are usually changing blanks. So, if you tooled up for it, you can modify all the various dice. Also, critical hits are really nasty vs. Epic ships. If you can knock out shields and get that crit through, you can really cripple them.

Concussion Missiles can be used if you don't want to spend the points on all the various teams to modify the dice. You get to change at least 1 blank to a hit. If you do load up, it's better to go with Proton Torps.

Before I get into the next, I want to actually dissuade one option. Ion Pulse Missile is not really a good option. If you hit an epic ship, you remove 2 energy, but do no damage. There are better options below for causing them to lose their energy and cause damage. To me, I'd rather remove shields than remove their ability to restore the shields. For the price of an Ion Pulse Missile, you can just reliably do more damage to their shields which ends up costing them more Energy than they would spend than losing 2. Also, if you want to Ionize a small ship, there are better options. The only thing that it might be superior is if you want to ionize a large based ship. It seems a very narrow field option, though.

Plasma Torpedoes don't have a native way to modify the dice, but they can really hurt Epic ships by taking down those shields. You get 4 red dice for damage, and if you are hitting that wall of shields, you take another one down. That alone is better than Ion Pulse to me. It can be better than Proton Torpedoes before shields go down. Also, it can be useful against all those Rebel ships that have high shields and you need to take down quickly. That's B-wings, Y-wings, and K-wings. All low agility and high shields that can deliver the hurt to an epic ship.

Ion Torpedo is an excellent option. You still do 4 red dice damage, but you also Ionize everything in R1, including the target. Just compare this to Ion Pulse Missile vs Epic ships. You do a lot of damage and still remove an energy. Their ability to recover those shields is worse than using the Missile. Also, it's not useless if they have no Shields or Energy. You are still doing lots of damage. Not only that, but you Ionize any ship that's at R1 of the Epic. What if the enemy has a Jan Ors nearby? What if they are Ionized and end up bumping the CR-90? Besides firing at other Epic, look at firing at enemy small ships. You can put the hurt on one ship, but you can really control the board at that point. Hit the right ship and you can really slow down the advance of a whole wave of enemy ships. Not only is control of a whole squad important, it also gives you the option of possibly running them over! CR-90's especially like to run away and if you have some nasty ships coming up, you Ionize them and run off. To me Ion Torpedo is the BEST ship to use in Epic as it does EVERYTHING. The only downside is you can't modify your dice at all.

Assault Missiles are also good options for Epic as you get to do a lot of damage to a lot of ships. Just watch out for what is nearby your targets. It could backfire on you a bit. If you want to double up on a missile, this one might be another good option.

Adv. Homing Missile is something that COULD work on a specific build. I think it could work on an aggressive Raider build. Something where you know you are going to be in someone's face. The ability to put a critical hit on a ship, even if it's got full shields is impressive. R2 is the problem, but an aggressive Raider with various boosting ability can get in someone's face rather nicely. Very situational, but could be brutal. Ion Battery might be the better option. Better range and dice, but you don't blast through shields.

Ion Pulse Missiles do one damage, not zero. Not amazing but can be crippling to large-based ships. Only 3 squad points and do not use up the TL which is your most precious commodity on a missile boat.

I find the Raider a more natural fit for Ordnance Tubes. The firing arcs just seem to work better and you're range bands line up better with your primary. I think you will be surprised by the efficiency of a build like this:

OK...Ion Pulse Missiles do 1 damage and then 2 Energy, but that's really sub par compared to all the other options. I'd rather use Ion Torp where you roll 4 red dice and still get to do 1 Energy drain.....as well as hit all ships at R1 of it. It also works against squads of small based ships, as well. If your ship above went against a horde, it would be chewed to pieces fast.

Ion Pulse are not for use on Huge ships but large based ships. One shot that hits and you know where that large base will be and hopefully run the sucker over. Ion Torps cost a bit more and cost the TL which is the biggest concern.

You face a lot of large based ships in your games with Epic ships? I'd rather have an Ion Battery instead. Having at least one energy weapon gives you a use for Energy when you aren't rebuilding your shields. Also gives you a longer range attack when you need it.

I like them because they aren't expendable and they're on a ship that's solid enough to hang around for a while, the two drawbacks to their use on snub fighters. Also, I love how they give me close-in weapon support, like my "little friend" I served with in the Navy (that also resembled an astromech), the CIWS.

Does CIWS stand for Close-In Weapon Support or was that just a happy coincidence ?

I like the look of Cluster Missiles on the Corvette to fill the Range 1-2 gap but I freely admit I have not tried it out properly to see how well it works in practice. I like the idea of being able to save energy tokens for important stuff (like shields or the Treadwell droid).

You HAVE to have Weapons Engineer on it for the Target Locks, and munitions that don't spend the TL are amazing. You can shoot at a single ship up to three times in one round without giving up anything given the ship is in both forward and rear arcs.

How does the 3 times work out? Is that by equipping every hardpoint with ordnance?

Yes, you put three missiles and can shot with all of them, given you have the TL to do so.

I really like it on the CR90. I tend to put two ordinance systems on the fore of the ship and then a normal energy sucker on the back. This helps diffuse both the point cost and energy sink as well as isolate the halves so that losing one doesn't cost me weapon systems on the other.

In terms of which weapons I use. For the Hardpoint in the back I'm fond of any of them for different reasons, but I think the Ion has the best mix of cost a flexibility The Turbolaser has its place though; it just costs more.

On the front, one of the slots is almost always a Homing Missile. Flexible, powerful, gets to reroll with the target lock or let me fire my other missile at the same ship. The second tube has more options. Proton Torpedoes pack the best punch, though Plasma is strong too and shaves some points. The other option is one of the AoEs; both Assault Missiles and Ion Torpedoes are good picks.

That's essentially my short list. I'm not quite as keen on Ordinance Tubes on the Raider these days honestly. I think it might overall be better suited to using Optimized Generators to power traditional Hardpoints and retain access to the target locks.

OK...Ion Pulse Missiles do 1 damage and then 2 Energy, but that's really sub par compared to all the other options. I'd rather use Ion Torp where you roll 4 red dice and still get to do 1 Energy drain.....as well as hit all ships at R1 of it. It also works against squads of small based ships, as well. If your ship above went against a horde, it would be chewed to pieces fast.

Actually, that sounds devastating. Let's discuss what that does to the epic ship. And let's say you shoot 2 of them in a turn. You are denying them 4 energy the next turn, which means they will not regen ANY energy, as I believe 3 is the max (plus 1 from engineering team for doing a straight). Furthermore, they will take 2 damage that bypasses the reinforce token.

So, those 4 energy that you've prevented can easily be considered 4 shields not regened. But it can also mean that you're reducing the incoming shots. If the ship isn't using ordnance, then he's spending energy to shoot, and now you've just denied the energy to place on those batteries. If he is using ordnance to shoot, then his one action is TL, and his second is reinforce - which we've already stated does nothing against IPMs.

So, for 2 shots, you've done what equates to 8 damage (2 from reinforce, 2 actual damage, 4 shields not regened), and you haven't spent any actions to do so (after the initial TL which you don't have to spend). Therefore, you can use your action to coordinate your other ships. Seems deadly, assuming you can keep the R2-3 bubble that you need to.

And this costs 11 points overall. Compared to Ion Torps which would cost 15. Those 4 extra points pay for your weapons engineer and shield tech. Or for an upgrade from an Academy to Backstabber. Plenty of good uses. Note I'm not saying that Ion Torps are useless, they definitely have a roll, but the big draw back is spending the TL.

The primary drawback to the Ordinance that doesn't require spending a target lock is that it still requires a target lock. This means you're primarily just getting the reroll opportunity unless you plan to shoot the ship with another weapon later in the turn. The Ion Pulse definitely has a place (I actually find most of the Ordinance does) but I often find it gives me issues with target locks. A dedicated Ion build is interesting though. Slap tactician on that thing watch people flip the table.

Do be aware though the primary threat to the huge ships are fighters in their rear. Focusing too much on huge ship combat will often get you in trouble.

Raider with two Homing Missiles on the aft and Plasma tops on the front. Weapons engineer, fly with Jonus and possibly Howl in formation. Keep the Raider fairly lean, maybe a shield tech and backup generator to abuse your abundant energy.

Plasmas and main weapon let you tango with large and huge ships on the approach, Infinite Homing Missile Suffering Bubble forces enemies to either go for a ridiculous prolonged flank you can exploit with other ships, gets them in range of heavily modified missiles, or forces them so close they risk being crushed.

Heck, put an EM Emitter on it to protect Howl and Jonus and use them as additional point-blank backup sitting behind 6-8 agility die.

OK...Ion Pulse Missiles do 1 damage and then 2 Energy, but that's really sub par compared to all the other options. I'd rather use Ion Torp where you roll 4 red dice and still get to do 1 Energy drain.....as well as hit all ships at R1 of it. It also works against squads of small based ships, as well. If your ship above went against a horde, it would be chewed to pieces fast.

Actually, that sounds devastating. Let's discuss what that does to the epic ship. And let's say you shoot 2 of them in a turn. You are denying them 4 energy the next turn, which means they will not regen ANY energy, as I believe 3 is the max (plus 1 from engineering team for doing a straight). Furthermore, they will take 2 damage that bypasses the reinforce token.

So, those 4 energy that you've prevented can easily be considered 4 shields not regened. But it can also mean that you're reducing the incoming shots. If the ship isn't using ordnance, then he's spending energy to shoot, and now you've just denied the energy to place on those batteries. If he is using ordnance to shoot, then his one action is TL, and his second is reinforce - which we've already stated does nothing against IPMs.

So, for 2 shots, you've done what equates to 8 damage (2 from reinforce, 2 actual damage, 4 shields not regened), and you haven't spent any actions to do so (after the initial TL which you don't have to spend). Therefore, you can use your action to coordinate your other ships. Seems deadly, assuming you can keep the R2-3 bubble that you need to.

And this costs 11 points overall. Compared to Ion Torps which would cost 15. Those 4 extra points pay for your weapons engineer and shield tech. Or for an upgrade from an Academy to Backstabber. Plenty of good uses. Note I'm not saying that Ion Torps are useless, they definitely have a roll, but the big draw back is spending the TL.

I'm under the impression that the energy drain happens immediately for Epic ships, not the next turn. Am I wrong?

It's also quite possible that the energy drain, no matter when it happens, doesn't have enough energy to drain. So, you could waste the shots for not much effect. Even if it happens on the 2nd turn, it could be that your opponent is a CR-90 and trying to pull away and fire at a distance. You wouldn't drain as much energy that they wouldn't have anyways. They also might not need to raise shields that round as you only really did do 2 damage to their shields.

As for the bit about doing 8 damage, I don't get it. What 2 points do you account for reinforce? What....are you saying that by bypassing the reinforce it's the same as dealing the damage? I don't think see it that way.

To me, the 4 red dice doing damage with an energy drain thrown in is better than just the 1 damage with 2 energy drain thrown in. For one, they might or might not have Reinforce up on that section of the epic ship that round. Dice rolls are random and you need to spend more points to help the Ion Torpedo be more effective. I look at the possibility of doing 4 damage that then also gives an ion to nearby ships.

What seals the deal for me is that Ion Torpedoes are good against numerous small based ships for control. Ion Pulse will hit one ship, but Ion Torp does many.