Personally, I'm not thrilled that the RG reprint cards are double-sided. None of the other cards are that way, so it's a bit odd (and annoying for my OCD self) to have these ones that way.
It is odd, but I like it. That way, we only need three kits to get all the errata cards out of the way instead of five. And I much prefer more of different promos to separate elite/regular promos for the same unit.
Sorry to be THAT guy - but unsurprising and typical 'gamer whining' going on in here.
In summary:
- RG, IO and Sabs become too powerful and dominant, with many players stating they're broken, damaging the game and calling for bans/nerfs/errata
- After allowing enough time for testing, seeing tourney result, FFG introduce errata
- Players whine because the new versions of the cards are 'too different' (which is exactly what was called for). Players also whine because they don't have proper card version of the errata'd cards RIGHT NOW, despite FFG including images of the new cards in the article. Print them out, put them in the sleeve - simples
- FFG then includes the errata'd RGs in the very next prize kit. Double sided so that you need less of them. So that player's need to attend less tournaments and so that FLGS need to buy less kits. This also means that it'll take 3 kits to release the errata'd cards instead of 5.
- Players then whine that the cards are double sided, that they're 'different' to all the other cards now, are 'unusable' in campaign and replace the alt art cards. Players whine that they have to 'pay' for these cards, because the only way to get them is to attend tournaments. (Aren't you doing that anyway, because you like and play the game!?)
- Players also whine about tokens not being included, the value of the kits being reduced etc etc, despite them trying out something new with the HP trackers.
Damned if they do, damned if they don't.
- They include single sided cards and then they've either got to remove the Alt-arts or increase the price of the kits. Result: Whine
- They include the tokens, then they've got to remove something else, make the erratas double sided, or increase price of the kit. Result: Whine
- They don't include the health trackers and people complain about the kit's being boring or tired. Result: Whine
Maybe by now I shouldn't be, but it always amazes me the capacity for gamers to whine about stuff.
Sorry to be THAT guy - but unsurprising and typical 'gamer whining' going on in here.
In summary:
- RG, IO and Sabs become too powerful and dominant, with many players stating they're broken, damaging the game and calling for bans/nerfs/errata
- After allowing enough time for testing, seeing tourney result, FFG introduce errata
- Players whine because the new versions of the cards are 'too different' (which is exactly what was called for). Players also whine because they don't have proper card version of the errata'd cards RIGHT NOW, despite FFG including images of the new cards in the article. Print them out, put them in the sleeve - simples
- FFG then includes the errata'd RGs in the very next prize kit. Double sided so that you need less of them. So that player's need to attend less tournaments and so that FLGS need to buy less kits. This also means that it'll take 3 kits to release the errata'd cards instead of 5.
- Players then whine that the cards are double sided, that they're 'different' to all the other cards now, are 'unusable' in campaign and replace the alt art cards. Players whine that they have to 'pay' for these cards, because the only way to get them is to attend tournaments. (Aren't you doing that anyway, because you like and play the game!?)
- Players also whine about tokens not being included, the value of the kits being reduced etc etc, despite them trying out something new with the HP trackers.
Damned if they do, damned if they don't.
- They include single sided cards and then they've either got to remove the Alt-arts or increase the price of the kits. Result: Whine
- They include the tokens, then they've got to remove something else, make the erratas double sided, or increase price of the kit. Result: Whine
- They don't include the health trackers and people complain about the kit's being boring or tired. Result: Whine
Maybe by now I shouldn't be, but it always amazes me the capacity for gamers to whine about stuff.
+10000000
I don't think there's need to be all righteous and judgemental. A total of five people said that they don't like the RG cards for one reason or another, another two or three stated that they'd prefer tokens to the damage thingies.
I know this is the internet and blowing stuff out of proportion is to be expected, but I honestly can't see hows the above calls for an angry wall text calling the entire community crybabies.
Maybe everyone should just dial down on the drama. It's bad for your health.
I don't think there's need to be all righteous and judgemental. A total of five people said that they don't like the RG cards for one reason or another, another two or three stated that they'd prefer tokens to the damage thingies.
I know this is the internet and blowing stuff out of proportion is to be expected, but I honestly can't see hows the above calls for an angry wall text calling the entire community crybabies.
Maybe everyone should just dial down on the drama. It's bad for your health.
That's totally fair. In an ideal world, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
I agree that the wall of righteous text comes across as dramatic. That's not my intention. Also I'm not targeting merely the people in this thread. It's a more an accumulative effect of reading comments across several platforms - FFG forums, reddit, BGG, facebook, face to face etc.
As I mainly play campaign, the double sided cards are a bit of a let down. I know that I can double sleeve them and that they're more practical for FFG but it's still a little disappointing. At least there will be a ton of them in every kit.
jonboy, I think your wall of text is inaccurate because you grossly oversimplify a number of things. If nothing else, you've grouped my comment in with a bunch of other sentiments that I certainly do not share.
I am 115% behind the errata! I love the errata choices, and I think that all 5 of the final results are good for the game. The fact that we've got several different squad types winning the Store Championships is evidence that this errata was both needed and effective. Yes, trooper lists are rising to the top, but that's not a problem IMHO, since there is so much variety in those trooper-dominant lists. I honestly think the competitive game is in a very good place right now.
I have also often said that I'd happily pay $10 or something for a pack of updated Deployment Cards. I'd prefer that, actually, because--and I know this is shocking to some--not everyone who wants to find a local IA skirmish group is able to do so. I've been trying to find an active group in my area for a year now, and there is nothing within 30 a minute drive. My life and job are so busy that I really don't have the time and energy to start up a group from scratch alone, though I'd certainly be happy to join with someone else in doing that...but so far, no luck. This is despite talking to my FLGS owner several times...in fact, I've left all my contact info with him 3 different times, and each time he said he'd contact me when they're ready. Arg...if anything, I'll whine and complain about that!! lol Anyway, back on topic....
I'm also totally fine with using my own printed versions of the errata'd cards. I sleeve all my cards, so it's really not a big deal to me. I love the art on the new RG cards so I can't wait to get them, but I'm really not worried about it if I can't get my hands on them anytime soon.
Furthermore, I'm thrilled that the errata'd RG cards are in this very next league kit! I think that shows some forward thinking on the part of the FFG guys and also a strong desire to help the game as much as possible. I'm sure it took a lot of work to get the kits adjusted to make this possible so quickly. And personally, I'm not really concerned about the price of the league kits...as a tournament player I'd be happy to pay $1 more each tournament to pay for a price increase, if they went that route.
And I actually think the HP trackers are a great idea! I've actually printed out my own personal versions of them several months ago. In fact, it's possible that some of the inspiration for these trackers came from me, because both one of the designers (Paul or Todd, can't remember) came up to me during a game at the GenCon tournament this summer and commented on my design, saying that he really liked it. So personally I think I'll probably continue to go with what I've got, but I think the HP trackers in this league kit are really cool. I hope and expect that we'll see Imperial- and Mercenary-themed versions of them in the future.
And I'm really not concerned if certain tokens are not included in these kits. I'm happy with the tokens I have. But I really DO want that sweet-looking coin!
So anyway, in short, I've been 100% behind everything that FFG has been doing for this game. In fact, I think I'm probably one of FFG's biggest fans, precisely because of how responsive they are to the health of the game and the requests of its players. [Don't ask me to compare FFG to WotC, who once produced SWM...ugh.] I've made comments to this effect in several discussion threads.
Having said all that, I'm not thrilled that the new RG cards are double-sided. Is it the end of the world? No. 4x4 continuing to dominate for another season...THAT would be the end of the world! But is it annoying? Yes. I'm not going to throw a hissy fit (perhaps the way that some people apparently did), but I do think it's fine to say that I'm not thrilled about the double-sided factor. If after reading this post you still think I'm whining pointlessly, then I guess you're entitled to your opinion...but that opinion just won't be accurate.
For the those that don't like the double sided cards, would you actually be happier if it were 1 sided but you only got 1 of the cards? Because that's what it sounds like, I'm just happy that 1 card fixes a whole expac but that's just me
Edited by Mace WinduI don't follow on how that wouldn't be useful?But... The RG cards are double-sided? How is that useful?
For one, you can't use both at the same time, unlike TWO cards. Secondly, you have to take steps to conceal the other side so your opponent doesn't know what you are fielding. Thirdly, a crafty opponent could decide into the campaign on which open group he brought... Elite if he needs strength, regular if he doesn't have the threat.
I don't follow on how that wouldn't be useful?But... The RG cards are double-sided? How is that useful?
For one, you can't use both at the same time, unlike TWO cards. Secondly, you have to take steps to conceal the other side so your opponent doesn't know what you are fielding. Thirdly, a crafty opponent could decide into the campaign on which open group he brought... Elite if he needs strength, regular if he doesn't have the threat.
If the "fact" that a dual side makes it easier for your GM or Imperial player to cheat then I'd say you already have a problem and should consider finding another GM. But if it's a genuine concern then simply say that the revealed/hidden cards MUST be the original ones. They may then be substituted with the respective side of the dual sided ones.
But seriously: get another GM
For the those that don't like the double sided cards, would you actually be happier if it were 1 sided but you only got 1 of the cards? Because that's what it sounds like, I'm just happy that 1 card fixes a whole expac but that's just me
Yeah, that's actually what I'd prefer. As I said, I'm a bit OCD about my gaming stuff, especially with the games that I love the most (and IA is the top), and so it's frustrating for me to now have some cards that are different than others. I think I might just end up sleeving these cards in with my old RG cards so that at least they have the proper card-backing. I would've happily paid money or waited longer to get each of the errata'd cards as a single card.
But regardless, it is what it is. In the end I'm just glad that we've got a well-balanced fix to these figures.
jonboy, I think your wall of text is inaccurate because you grossly oversimplify a number of things. If nothing else, you've grouped my comment in with a bunch of other sentiments that I certainly do not share.
I am 115% behind the errata! I love the errata choices, and I think that all 5 of the final results are good for the game. The fact that we've got several different squad types winning the Store Championships is evidence that this errata was both needed and effective. Yes, trooper lists are rising to the top, but that's not a problem IMHO, since there is so much variety in those trooper-dominant lists. I honestly think the competitive game is in a very good place right now.
I have also often said that I'd happily pay $10 or something for a pack of updated Deployment Cards. I'd prefer that, actually, because--and I know this is shocking to some--not everyone who wants to find a local IA skirmish group is able to do so. I've been trying to find an active group in my area for a year now, and there is nothing within 30 a minute drive. My life and job are so busy that I really don't have the time and energy to start up a group from scratch alone, though I'd certainly be happy to join with someone else in doing that...but so far, no luck. This is despite talking to my FLGS owner several times...in fact, I've left all my contact info with him 3 different times, and each time he said he'd contact me when they're ready. Arg...if anything, I'll whine and complain about that!! lol Anyway, back on topic....
I'm also totally fine with using my own printed versions of the errata'd cards. I sleeve all my cards, so it's really not a big deal to me. I love the art on the new RG cards so I can't wait to get them, but I'm really not worried about it if I can't get my hands on them anytime soon.
Furthermore, I'm thrilled that the errata'd RG cards are in this very next league kit! I think that shows some forward thinking on the part of the FFG guys and also a strong desire to help the game as much as possible. I'm sure it took a lot of work to get the kits adjusted to make this possible so quickly. And personally, I'm not really concerned about the price of the league kits...as a tournament player I'd be happy to pay $1 more each tournament to pay for a price increase, if they went that route.
And I actually think the HP trackers are a great idea! I've actually printed out my own personal versions of them several months ago. In fact, it's possible that some of the inspiration for these trackers came from me, because both one of the designers (Paul or Todd, can't remember) came up to me during a game at the GenCon tournament this summer and commented on my design, saying that he really liked it. So personally I think I'll probably continue to go with what I've got, but I think the HP trackers in this league kit are really cool. I hope and expect that we'll see Imperial- and Mercenary-themed versions of them in the future.
And I'm really not concerned if certain tokens are not included in these kits. I'm happy with the tokens I have. But I really DO want that sweet-looking coin!
So anyway, in short, I've been 100% behind everything that FFG has been doing for this game. In fact, I think I'm probably one of FFG's biggest fans, precisely because of how responsive they are to the health of the game and the requests of its players. [Don't ask me to compare FFG to WotC, who once produced SWM...ugh.] I've made comments to this effect in several discussion threads.
Having said all that, I'm not thrilled that the new RG cards are double-sided. Is it the end of the world? No. 4x4 continuing to dominate for another season...THAT would be the end of the world! But is it annoying? Yes. I'm not going to throw a hissy fit (perhaps the way that some people apparently did), but I do think it's fine to say that I'm not thrilled about the double-sided factor. If after reading this post you still think I'm whining pointlessly, then I guess you're entitled to your opinion...but that opinion just won't be accurate.
What a great post.
Thanks for a thorough and thoughtful response. I recognise that with my 'righteous wall of text' I lumped a lot of people in together - somewhat unfairly and also made individuals figureheads for others and other viewpoints - again, unfairly.
As I said, my rant was really, more me venting at the accumulating effect of experiencing 'gaming whining' across multiple platforms, over the last few weeks.
My mistake was putting some of the individuals in this thread in my crosshairs.
No problem. 
I do agree that it gets annoying when it seems like people will insist on complaining about everything, and that nothing is ever good enough. When I played SWM in the past, it was often said that if WotC put a $20 bill in every booster pack (which each cost $15), the players would complain about the way it was folded. lol