So with the local league tournament going on I'm finally getting to see lots of ships and builds I haven't seen before. In our first week, I saw a lot of people using turrets. Namely Falcon, Outrider, and Decimator. So I decided that I would build an anti-pancake build for week two. Which was lucky, because my week 2 opponent had a Decimator. Then the 5 people I played after that in casual games all had a pancake of their own.

Redline + Extra Munitions + Sensor Jammers + Concussion Missiles + Plasma Torpedoes + Seismic Charges

Darth Vader + title + Advanced Targeting Computer + Engine Upgrade + Marksmanship + Concussion Missiles

Black Squadron Pilot + Predator

My basic tactic has been to slowly approach the pancake, while Vader sweeps wide and fast along the far side. Generally the opponents think that I'm dividing my forces, allowing Vader to engage the miniswarm or other ace while Redline closes on the 'cake. However, Vader blows right past them in order to swing wide and come up behind the turret ship. This means that Vader tends to engage the Decimator or whathaveyou a) from behind and b) the turn after Redline has fired his first volley of Plasma Torpedoes. I've only had 1 game in 6 where there were any shields remaining after that first hit. Then Vader comes up and can usually get his TL and marksman in one round, or sometimes he has the TL from the prior round, so he can Marksman and Evade. Thanks to Marksmanship, almost every shot I take with that missile has been hit, hit, hit, crit. Then of course there's that overlooked little TIE, usually at range 1, with his dependable little rerolls who actually seems to secure the killing shot most of the time.

So far, I've yet to face a pancake that has survived past the 3rd round of firing, and on average it has only taken 4 shots to kill the Decimator this way, and maybe 4-6 shots for something with evade dice. One guy almost survived into round 4, but was killed by a Seismic Charge.

i will say once wave 8 hits you can replace that Black squad with a seinar Pilot (the base Tie Adv proto) with its title.. giving it better action economy as well as the ability to still re-roll.

i will say once wave 8 hits you can replace that Black squad with a seinar Pilot (the base Tie Adv proto) with its title.. giving it better action economy as well as the ability to still re-roll.

I'll give that a whirl. That TAP green 1 turn looks juicy and delicious.

anti-pancake != redline without FCS and cluster missiles

In my experience with turret ships, longer range is better. That's why Concussion > Cluster in my eyes. Besides, it's always possible for two TLed rolls with Clusters to still just suck, but that blank to a hit is always nice insurance.

anti-pancake != redline without FCS and cluster missiles

Seriously, Redline has the ability to close to range 2 on most pancakes, and Cluster missiles are the most effective weapon against pancakes. There's nothing stopping you having a long range option as well, and Plasma Torpedoes are possibly the best option from that perspective since the likes of Fat Han can block a bunch of damage, but Plasmas will still strip a shield as long as they hit. But protons are still probably better if you can spare the extra point. Lacking FCS on Redline should be a criminal offense against the Empire, too.

Plus, you're going to want Guidance Chimps as soon as they drop.

Redline is great anti pancake material (as long as you can keep him alive to fire at all) but this Redline isn't.

I don't think making an anti pancake list is that difficult or something to celebrate. Decimators are not that hard to take out.

I don't think making an anti pancake list is that difficult or something to celebrate. Decimators are not that hard to take out.

I'm sure there's another thread that meets your high standards of advanced play.

Fella kinda has a point, Decimators aren't exactly seen as a big threat currently. a few cluster missiles sees them off, and for their lack of agility 3 attack dice isn't cutting it.

As one of the last remaining 2-ship Large PWT players left, I have to admit, I have finally realized that the current meta sucks for me as a player. TLT, New Ordnance, Stress, return of Swarms of all types, opponents regenning shields and throwing lots of AutoHitDice with little chance to evade them is terribly frustrating and boring to play against. My last two store champs (even though I went 3-2 and 2-3) were just an exercise in the inevitable. I had to resist several times of just conceding as my opponent setup his list. Oh yeah, more Y0wings with TLT and stressbot. Awesome sauce. I'm the Empire, I fight to the last man, which was of course, Soontir.

I was very excited for the Ghost, but now, meh. Maybe I'll just buy 4 Y-Wings and ebay for the TLT cards...

Actually, I'm going to take a break from the game, skip out on the rest of this season, come back this fall and see if the meta is more interesting to play in than it is right now. I wish the Empire had more options than Swarms.

Fella kinda has a point, Decimators aren't exactly seen as a big threat currently. a few cluster missiles sees them off, and for their lack of agility 3 attack dice isn't cutting it.

The threat of Decimators really depends on who's aboard. Vader/Gunner makes them terrifyingly brief explosions of auto-crits, Palpatine with Chiraneau makes them and their ace escort incredibly reliable at punching out 3 to 4 booms and kabooms each per turn.

Soontir isn't a concern to me. It's who is left after the alpha strike kills him.

As one of the last remaining 2-ship Large PWT players left, I have to admit, I have finally realized that the current meta sucks for me as a player. TLT, New Ordnance, Stress, return of Swarms of all types, opponents regenning shields and throwing lots of AutoHitDice with little chance to evade them is terribly frustrating and boring to play against. My last two store champs (even though I went 3-2 and 2-3) were just an exercise in the inevitable. I had to resist several times of just conceding as my opponent setup his list. Oh yeah, more Y0wings with TLT and stressbot. Awesome sauce. I'm the Empire, I fight to the last man, which was of course, Soontir.

I was very excited for the Ghost, but now, meh. Maybe I'll just buy 4 Y-Wings and ebay for the TLT cards...

Actually, I'm going to take a break from the game, skip out on the rest of this season, come back this fall and see if the meta is more interesting to play in than it is right now. I wish the Empire had more options than Swarms.

4 Ship, 3 Aces, Phantoms, Bombers, Palp Aces... all viable

It's not your list. It's you

Yup, seconding that there are a tonne of viable Imperial lists that aren't swarms. Trip aces, in particular, has been blown WIIIIDE open as a list building space by Omega Leader who can hold his own as an independent ace for 26 to 30 points, if well-flown.

As one of the last remaining 2-ship Large PWT players left, I have to admit, I have finally realized that the current meta sucks for me as a player. TLT, New Ordnance, Stress, return of Swarms of all types, opponents regenning shields and throwing lots of AutoHitDice with little chance to evade them is terribly frustrating and boring to play against. My last two store champs (even though I went 3-2 and 2-3) were just an exercise in the inevitable. I had to resist several times of just conceding as my opponent setup his list. Oh yeah, more Y0wings with TLT and stressbot. Awesome sauce. I'm the Empire, I fight to the last man, which was of course, Soontir.

I was very excited for the Ghost, but now, meh. Maybe I'll just buy 4 Y-Wings and ebay for the TLT cards...

Actually, I'm going to take a break from the game, skip out on the rest of this season, come back this fall and see if the meta is more interesting to play in than it is right now. I wish the Empire had more options than Swarms.

4 Ship, 3 Aces, Phantoms, Bombers, Palp Aces... all viable

It's not your list. It's you

And of course the defender titles coming out. If lack of variety causes one to leave for a season then they probably were not around during wave 1-3. When I go to game nights or tournaments I see tons of crazy new lists.

It's not your list. It's you

Someone's been frequenting the Infinity forum, I see.

As one of the last remaining 2-ship Large PWT players left, I have to admit, I have finally realized that the current meta sucks for me as a player. TLT, New Ordnance, Stress, return of Swarms of all types, opponents regenning shields and throwing lots of AutoHitDice with little chance to evade them is terribly frustrating and boring to play against. My last two store champs (even though I went 3-2 and 2-3) were just an exercise in the inevitable. I had to resist several times of just conceding as my opponent setup his list. Oh yeah, more Y0wings with TLT and stressbot. Awesome sauce. I'm the Empire, I fight to the last man, which was of course, Soontir.

I was very excited for the Ghost, but now, meh. Maybe I'll just buy 4 Y-Wings and ebay for the TLT cards...

Actually, I'm going to take a break from the game, skip out on the rest of this season, come back this fall and see if the meta is more interesting to play in than it is right now. I wish the Empire had more options than Swarms.

Whattt?

Go check out the store championships thread here https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/198561-2016-store-championship-results/

You'll see absolutely amazing list variety at the moment - unprecedented in fact. You'l also see quite a few decimators posting in top fours, and a fat han winning one. Sounds like you're having a bad time of it at the moment, and I'm sorry to hear that, but I'm also sorry to say that the fault doesn't lie with the game right now.

Stop talking about trip aces. You're going to make me look away from Palp & Co., and I JUST convinced myself that's what I'm flying this season...

At least, until something new drops.

Assuming it'll drop sometime during the tournament season :/.

Stop talking about trip aces. You're going to make me look away from Palp & Co., and I JUST convinced myself that's what I'm flying this season...

At least, until something new drops.

Assuming it'll drop sometime during the tournament season :/.

Trip Aces rules and the Monumental Celestial Narwhal doesn't count.

Trip aces.

If you want an anti-pancake list, just use 8 Academy Pilot. Voila.

Stop talking about trip aces. You're going to make me look away from Palp & Co., and I JUST convinced myself that's what I'm flying this season...

At least, until something new drops.

Assuming it'll drop sometime during the tournament season :/.

Trip Aces rules and the Monumental Celestial Narwhal doesn't count.

Trip aces.

Dammit...

99 points

Pilots

------

“Omega Leader”

(29) TIE/fo Fighter (21), Comm Relay (3), Juke (2), Stealth Device (3)

Soontir Fel (35)

TIE Interceptor (27), Royal Guard TIE (0), Push the Limit (3), Autothrusters (2), Stealth Device (3)

Darth Vader (35)

TIE Advanced (29), TIE/x1 (0), Veteran Instincts (1), Engine Upgrade (4), Advanced Targeting Computer (5)

Stop talking about trip aces. You're going to make me look away from Palp & Co., and I JUST convinced myself that's what I'm flying this season...

At least, until something new drops.

Assuming it'll drop sometime during the tournament season :/.

Trip Aces rules and the Monumental Celestial Narwhal doesn't count.

Trip aces.

Dammit...

99 points

Pilots

------

“Omega Leader”

(29) TIE/fo Fighter (21), Comm Relay (3), Juke (2), Stealth Device (3)

Soontir Fel (35)

TIE Interceptor (27), Royal Guard TIE (0), Push the Limit (3), Autothrusters (2), Stealth Device (3)

Darth Vader (35)

TIE Advanced (29), TIE/x1 (0), Veteran Instincts (1), Engine Upgrade (4), Advanced Targeting Computer (5)

Yup, that's precisely what I'd be running if I owned an Advanced and a Raider.

As it is OL loses the SD and I put in WHisper with FCS ACD and VI instead.

Just curious what Decimator players think about this list. IMO, with my current list and load out I don't think I would be too worried about this list. I will admit I have never faced a Punisher with my Deci but based on Pilot skill and the load out I use this list wouldn't intimidate me that much. Like I said though I have little experience with or against a punisher.

Stop talking about trip aces. You're going to make me look away from Palp & Co., and I JUST convinced myself that's what I'm flying this season...

At least, until something new drops.

Assuming it'll drop sometime during the tournament season :/.

Trip Aces rules and the Monumental Celestial Narwhal doesn't count.

Trip aces.

Dammit...

99 points

Pilots

------

“Omega Leader”

(29) TIE/fo Fighter (21), Comm Relay (3), Juke (2), Stealth Device (3)

Soontir Fel (35)

TIE Interceptor (27), Royal Guard TIE (0), Push the Limit (3), Autothrusters (2), Stealth Device (3)

Darth Vader (35)

TIE Advanced (29), TIE/x1 (0), Veteran Instincts (1), Engine Upgrade (4), Advanced Targeting Computer (5)

Yup, that's precisely what I'd be running if I owned an Advanced and a Raider.

As it is OL loses the SD and I put in WHisper with FCS ACD and VI instead.

This!!!!!

Or I'm losing the stealth and putting Prockets on Vader

Just curious what Decimator players think about this list. IMO, with my current list and load out I don't think I would be too worried about this list. I will admit I have never faced a Punisher with my Deci but based on Pilot skill and the load out I use this list wouldn't intimidate me that much. Like I said though I have little experience with or against a punisher.

I've ran Redline against Super Dash... I never got a shot off against him. I lost the initiative roll and he gave me initiative. Had I given him initiative it might have been better. You still are handicapped with PS when you run a Punisher. Anything PS 8 or above has the advantage.