My previous best list was also Palpatine Aces, with a nonstandard twist: I ran Fel/Shadow Squadron/Omicron+Palpatine. But Shadow Squadron, which was in the build as a hard counter to enemy TLT spam, is very close to dead weight in the current ace-heavy metagame.

So I decided to pull the build apart. I promoted Shadow Squadron to PS9 Whisper and built her exactly the way I wanted. Then I factored in a 2-point initiative bid and looked at all the reasonable Imperial options for the remaining 26 points.

It turns out Omega Leader fits the bill, which is nice. And after some more thought, he creates a neat trap for enemy aces: in most lists, a ship that spends focus against Whisper's Sensor Jammer loses the ability to defend against OL's Juke.

Your thoughts?

***

"Whisper" (32)

Veteran Instincts (1)

Sensor Jammer (4)

Agent Kallus (2)

Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

Omicron Group Pilot (21)

Emperor Palpatine (8)

"Omega Leader" (21)

Juke (2)

Comm Relay (3)

Total: 98

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

It looks solid. I have yet to use Omega Leader or play against him, but can he carry it offensively? He seems like a good counter to 2 or 3 ship lists.

I find that Twin Ion Engine MkII is almost a must have on Omega Leader. With all the stresshogs flying around (at least where I usually play), and the S and K turns, being able to do a green bank can really help him keep position. Two attack die feel really underpowered, but if you can focus you will regularly get one through, thanks to his pilot ability and Juke. He also pairs very well with a ship using Opportunist.

Omega Leader flown well can beat pretty much any ace in a 1-on-1 match up, baring skewed dice (a full Falcon/Decimator is too much but you can reasonably expect to finish off a half dead one). If either he or Whisper makes it to the end game you're gold, though he will drop quite quickly to focused fire and isn't as capable at arc-dodging as Whisper is. Even though he'll reliably get damage through on aces, I find that his damage output is too low when facing high-hull low-agility targets.

Looking at the entire list, I imagine that if you find yourself with Whisper facing a higher-PS ship your action will be to evade and depend on Kallus and the emperor for offense/defense mods, but he'll likely be useless most of the time against 4+ ship lists, which is actually the same disadvantage that OL has. Of course, Whisper can solo a few grunts without too much trouble so that weakness is partially covered. If you expect lots of 2-3 ship lists then I think you have the tools to deal with them, and sensor jammer is great against TLTs (and ships that bump/k-turn), but you might find it an uphill battle to take down a list with lots of hit points that don't care too much about not rolling evades.

Thanks for the feedback so far!

Looking at the entire list, I imagine that if you find yourself with Whisper facing a higher-PS ship your action will be to evade and depend on Kallus and the emperor for offense/defense mods...

Yeah: Kallus + Palpatine + evade token guarantees 3 evade results against one shot per round, even without the cloak. And if my opponent is focusing on taking Whisper out, that means he or she is probably ignoring Omega Leader, which is a good trade for me.

...but he'll likely be useless most of the time against 4+ ship lists, which is actually the same disadvantage that OL has. Of course, Whisper can solo a few grunts without too much trouble so that weakness is partially covered.

My experience has been that Whisper can nearly solo opposing lists that lean on generic pilots for bulk.

But yeah, I'm most worried about 4-ship Rebel lists that mix an ace with a Stresshog, accompanied by a pair of generic ships for bulk. So as long as no one hears about the current World Championship list, I'll be fine!

Imho you may get short on damage output. Beware, english ain't my first language, do my best to explain...

I'm not sold on OL's output, as end game piece is fantastic but prior to that is more annoying than dangerous.

OMG can be dodged quite easy so you may end up with Whisper as your 'only' gun but without FCS no epic 5 TL+F shots at R1. Palpie works as damage mitigation, no need for more defense.

I'd slim Whisper (IA+FCS) and put something crazy like Mr Stele with ATC + Crackshot (29). My imperial league squad features him + 3AP + Soontir and works surprisingly well as he is ignored 'cause people go after Soontir... choosing crits is lots of fun, with Palpie + ATC + Crackshot you can do it twice in a turn

Or go to 99 and bring a Defender and get some practice for when Veterans hits the stores

But yeah, I'm most worried about 4-ship Rebel lists that mix an ace with a Stresshog, accompanied by a pair of generic ships for bulk. So as long as no one hears about the current World Championship list, I'll be fine!

Yeah, that stresshog is terrifying. I've managed to avoid it with my main damage dealers in my triple 8 list (Echo/Jax/Strom) but the fear of facing loads of stress this season has got me to start testing Captain Yorr (also decloak -> k-turn -> action shenanigans are amazing). While he won't fit in your list without making some drastic changes, it's at the very least worth considering.

I would go SJ--->fcs and OGP---> Yorr.

But that is about flavor and local meta.

I'll echo concerns about damage output. Would you consider dropping to a 1 point bid to add Electronic Baffles to the Shuttle when it hits? No, you don't want to damage the Emperor's ride, but multiple turns of stops or hard-2s in a row can both get you more shots with the shuttle and avoid some shots that you'd otherwise take.

But yeah, I'm most worried about 4-ship Rebel lists that mix an ace with a Stresshog, accompanied by a pair of generic ships for bulk. So as long as no one hears about the current World Championship list, I'll be fine!

Rainbow's suggestion about swapping the system slot and getting Captain Yorr for anti-stress tech would be the way to fix that issue. He can tell Stresshogs to shove off, and the added PS and ability to allow stress-free red moves means he's not useless if you don't encounter them.

Other than that, I see few problems the list could encounter. Fly it well and wreck face!

I'll echo concerns about damage output. Would you consider dropping to a 1 point bid to add Electronic Baffles to the Shuttle when it hits? No, you don't want to damage the Emperor's ride, but multiple turns of stops or hard-2s in a row can both get you more shots with the shuttle and avoid some shots that you'd otherwise take.

Adding Electronic Baffle is definitely on my list of Wave 8 changes, if I stick with the archetype, as is a swap to Yorr.

Thanks otherwise for both the cautions and the votes of confidence. I'm going to be looking for a few more practice games between now and the 13th, and hopefully they go well!

I fly the exact same list, its great, dont change a thing.

I've never done Whisper w/ Palpy, mostly because there isn't another budget ace out there. I'm flying Fel (who I'm pretty sure I'm going to have a common law marriage with pretty soon) and Omega Leader, I hadn't really thought about subbing Whisper in.

I'd have to do some math. I love Sensor Jammer on the shuttle too much, I think, to make her actually fit well.

Just remember, nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition Shuttle.

I've never done Whisper w/ Palpy, mostly because there isn't another budget ace out there. I'm flying Fel (who I'm pretty sure I'm going to have a common law marriage with pretty soon) and Omega Leader, I hadn't really thought about subbing Whisper in.

My thought process pretty much went like this: "Okay, so I can't run the Whisper I want and the Fel I want. Everyone else slims down on Whisper and Fel or subs another ace for Whisper. What happens if I drop Fel instead? Huh... that could actually work."

I'd have to do some math. I love Sensor Jammer on the shuttle too much, I think, to make her actually fit well.

Sensor Jammer is a drastically underused card in the current metagame, I think. It shuts down TLTs, especially on ships that can back it up with evade dice. It helps blunt the impact of FCS on opposing Whispers and Corrans. It constrains the action choices of your opponent's aces and pushes your opponent to spend that focus token, which sets the rest of your list up to hit harder. It's really great.

Just remember, nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition Shuttle.

It's funny: my shuttle easily picks up 60% of the kills. Even experienced opponents forget that it rolls 3-4 dice, and because it often shoots last, it's the safest bet for an offensive use of Palpatine. (That is, by the time the shuttle attacks I usually don't need to hold the Emperor's ability for defense anymore.)

Depending on the matchup, I MIGHT fly the shuttle defensively, even with SJ. However, if there are only a few enemies, or I can convince them to chase Soontir/Omega (and Omega is a hot topic right now, so it's perfect), the Shuttle ALWAYS surprises them when I decide to play aggressively with it.

I concur that most of my kills are from the Shuttle, easily. I was thinking about throwing on Anti-Pursuit lasers for awhile, just so I could capitalize on the bumping, but I quickly realized that it causes opponents to be more aware of the shuttle, which is exactly what I don't want... Most times.

This weekend the first round of combat ended with the shuttle eliminating a N'dru. It was perfect, because I was also flying it through a dense asteroid field.

Vorpal, I played against that list twice during the store championship I attended. It's a good list, but susceptible to high PS meta.

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/201205-at-ease-games-store-championship-130/

He makes a good point -- you're GOING to run into Poes and Vaders.

I've got a bit of an internal struggle with Soontir & Vader both kitting out to 35 points, but I can't give up Autothrusters, which is the only reason I'm hanging on to Fel over V-dawg.

I'm confident I can outmaneuver the most common Poe builds (that is, unless someone brings VI + BB-8), and Kallus + Palpatine means Whisper resists a lot of fire even without her cloak. Vader's the scarier threat, to me, especially with Proton Rockets--but I don't even know what would qualify as a hard counter, there.

The good news is that Vader + VI hasn't shown up at any league night in the past few months, here, and the much more competitive Kansas City scene is probably going to be drawn by a local SC the same day. So I'll plan to face it, but keep my fingers crossed on the day.

I'm having a last-minute crisis of faith. I played in a 23-person store tournament last weekend, and I went 3-1. I beat a weird Scum list with Talonbane, Kath, and a PS1 Z-95, all with Hull Upgrades in the first round; BBBBZ in the second round; and Kenkirk/Juno/Night Beast in the fourth. My loss was to a Whisper/Chiraneau build in the third round, and it was winnable until my dice went cold.

So it was at least a moderately good day overall, but even though I didn't face a lot of strong meta lists I still wouldn't have made the tournament cut. I think I've identified some of the holes in the list:

• Whisper often demands conservative, careful play, but that worked against my MOV.
• As several people said, the list really doesn't bring a lot of red dice. That's a problem against lists with lots of hit points, meaning anything swarm-ish or even small lists with big ships.
• Omega Leader + Juke is really tough against anyone he has locked, but pretty squishy to anyone else.

Given all of that, I'm wondering about switching to this instead. It lacks OL's anti-ace tech, but resists stressbot much better. AC + prockets gives me consistency against generics and punch against enemy Large ships, and is also more defensive than OL. Thoughts?

"Whisper" (32)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Sensor Jammer (4)
Agent Kallus (2)
Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

Captain Yorr (24)
Emperor Palpatine (8)

Tempest Squadron Pilot (21)
Proton Rockets (3)
Accuracy Corrector (0)
TIE/x1 (0)

Total: 99

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

This has been crushing in so cal with fcs instead of jammers on whisper. I think you need Yorr and fcs to be competitive and have an advantage. Otherwise it will be very standard.

Tempest with Proton Rockets? How do you plan on firing those reliably?

I think you'd get more value out of Zeta Leader w/ wired & comm relay (or hull upgrade). Biophysical just posted doing well in a tourney with this guy, and it doesn't seem like a bad use of 24 points. Granted, its not much more firepower than omega leader, but it is definitely better than accuracy corrector tempest...

I 2nd the suggestion to go with FCS on Whisper. With palpatine, sensor jammer isn't that necessary. Although I like Vader better than Whisper (cheaper, similar damage, less weaknesses and about as durable). Although perhaps that isn't helping you considering your tourney is looming. Perhaps stick with Whisper since its what you've been practicing!

Good luck in any case!

Definitely. Zeta Leader + Wired + defensive card of your choice (optional) is a killer 24 points.

Omega Leader flown well can beat pretty much any ace in a 1-on-1 match up, baring skewed dice (a full Falcon/Decimator is too much but you can reasonably expect to finish off a half dead one).

This has been crushing in so cal with fcs instead of jammers on whisper. I think you need Yorr and fcs to be competitive and have an advantage. Otherwise it will be very standard.

A lot of people have suggested this, and I do really like FCS on Whisper. I still think people are substantially undervaluing Sensor Jammer in general right now, but I'm thinking about the builds I know I'll face in the local metagame, and most of them have an easy way around SJ.

Tempest with Proton Rockets? How do you plan on firing those reliably?

...I mean, is there an answer to this question other than (1) fly up to opposing ship and (2) roll dice? It might help for me to say that I'm planning on using them principally against enemy generics or low/mid-PS Large ships. I don't think I'll get a shot with Proton Rockets on Fel, but I don't see why I wouldn't be able to get one on Stressbot or Kenkirk.

I think you'd get more value out of Zeta Leader w/ wired & comm relay (or hull upgrade). Biophysical just posted doing well in a tourney with this guy, and it doesn't seem like a bad use of 24 points. Granted, its not much more firepower than omega leader, but it is definitely better than accuracy corrector tempest...

Well, the point was to get something that's more defensive than Omega Leader. I don't have a problem with Zeta Leader + Wired + Comms as a pocket ace, but if I'm already flying a high-PS TIE/fo I might as well stick with Omega Leader.

I 2nd the suggestion to go with FCS on Whisper.

(Sigh.) But everyone runs FCS! I want to be a special snowflake!

With palpatine, sensor jammer isn't that necessary.

This is a good argument. I feel like the right play is almost always to hold Palpatine for defense, and with Palpatine, Kallus, and Advanced Cloaking, Whisper's defense is pretty tough to beat against anything except massed TLT fire or heavily modified ordnance. So another defensive upgrade is gilding the lily to some extent, and if I can easily substitute a cheaper offensive upgrade...

Although I like Vader better than Whisper (cheaper, similar damage, less weaknesses and about as durable). Although perhaps that isn't helping you considering your tourney is looming. Perhaps stick with Whisper since its what you've been practicing!

Also, I don't like flying Vader. I've done it quite a bit, and I've developed a serious dislike for the TIE Advanced dial. It can't knife-fight, but it also can't slow-roll. I feel like that's something I can overlook if it's providing cheap bulk--but when it's an ace costing me 35+ points, I really want a ship I can have fun with rather than feel like I have to fight with the dial every round.

Definitely. Zeta Leader + Wired + defensive card of your choice (optional) is a killer 24 points.

If I sub FCS for the Sensor Jammer, I can do this:

Is it worth dropping to Zeta Leader + Wired + Comm Relay to get the SJ back? I'm leaning toward no, even if it means I'm running the same build as everyone else.

Eh, I like your first build the most overall.

Yorr isn't all that appealing to me unless you run into RAC with Rebel Captive - then Yorr in trouble.

Aside from that though, I really like SJ, Palp, Kallus. That combo protects you against TLTs, Poes, PWTs pretty well.

Stay clear of those Omega Leaders though! Palp still works, but I think SJ won't.