Besides the silly smuggler-box list, is Han Solo ever worth taking?

The short answer: No.

The long answer: Absolutely not.

Seriously, there is always something better that you can take in Rebels for 12pts. The Smuggler Ball squad is incredibly resilient, but even that squad can be taken apart by a skilled opponent.

Han's problem is that he just doesn't give you the firepower of lower costed Rebels, and he's not as resilient as some Elites for lower cost. He does have a place, he does have a three die attack that usually hits pretty hard, but his defense just isn't there.

As Notry just said, it's actually not so much that he's terrible, but there's almost always something better you can take for his points. For example, I'd take Luke and Rebel High Command over Han every time. Already have Luke? I'd take Leia, Rebel High Command, and C-3PO. Already have all those? I'd still probably take Regular and Elite Sabs. Elite Troopers and R2. Free up 3 points and take Chewie. Etc.

I agree that Han can not support his cost, not with the other options that are available. However, I believe that he has the foundations to be an amazing fig as more figs are released. His abilities have great potential, but he needs help to turn that potential into productivity.

Chewy is a great side-kick for Han, but not at 15pts. Still, a protector with 5sp is a step in the right direction. I'm not giving up on Han, but I'm also not using him until he gets the support he needs.

I agree that Han can not support his cost, not with the other options that are available. However, I believe that he has the foundations to be an amazing fig as more figs are released. His abilities have great potential, but he needs help to turn that potential into productivity.

Chewy is a great side-kick for Han, but not at 15pts. Still, a protector with 5sp is a step in the right direction. I'm not giving up on Han, but I'm also not using him until he gets the support he needs.

One of the tougher things about making Han better is that it'd be difficult to do without also making Jyn better, and for only 5 points, people would likely increase her effectiveness instead of Han.

They are both smugglers and both have Cunning. Both are able to fire outside of their own activations, and in fact both 'special' attacks occur on your opponent's activation. So the most popular suggested method of increasing Han's potential is through Command Cards (see other threads), but as noted, it's difficult to do that without giving Han Solo twice as many named cards as everyone else in the game... at least without resorting to something like, "This is not a Han Solo named Command Card. It applies to any Rebel figure with both Smuggler and Leader. You may apply +1 Block for your first instance of Cunning."

Likewise, other figures that are going to increase Han would be difficult to design without also increasing Jyn, or any other figure.

Until they do something though, Han will be relegated to campaign play most likely.

He's just not worth the points.

12 health for 12 points. Tosses a white die. With Cunning, that makes the sides:

Blank

Shield

Shield + Surge kill

2 shield + Surge kill

2 shield + Surge kill

Evade

Like Chewbacca, he should toss a black and a white or get to re-roll the white.

His attack BGG is ok- you're pretty much always going to get 7 range and almost always 5 damage. Which is pretty good (min 4 range - like a one in 216 chance of that- min 3 damage- again, absurd chance of that happening. Most of the time (like 70%) you are going to end up at 6 damage.

He'd see more play if he were 10 points like Luke. Or if his special was like Luke (all friendly with in 3 spaces get +1 surge kill).

Yeah, I really think the deployment card could do with a small erratum. It's a shame for skirmish players to relegate him to the box.

I would think if enough noise gets made FFG will do something. Think about Imperial Aces and Rebel Aces. If I had to guess those didn't come out of a "new set" idea, but a fix old stuff idea with new ships to sell an errata (Which is brilliant). I imagine there will be some sort of new mechanic that gets added to Han at zero cost. Also we had RtH announced the day after TS came out, but we've had no news recently. Who knows what's coming down the pipe.

I wouldn't be shocked if we got some new versions of movie characters as part of a Return of the Jedi-themed wave: Han Solo, Rebel General, or Luke Skywalker, Jedi Knight, for example. I'd like to see Lando before then, though, preferably in his Cloud City look.

So, instead of focusing on all that is wrong with Han, maybe we should look at what is "right" about him.

Quick build that I plan to test next time I play...

Han

Leia

MHD-19

Gideon

C-3PO

Rebel Saboteur x2

I still need to finalize the deck build. Sabs get focus from C-3PO and Gideon, MDH keeps my guys alive, while Leia has Han attack at least twice a round.

So, instead of focusing on all that is wrong with Han, maybe we should look at what is "right" about him.

Quick build that I plan to test next time I play...

Han

Leia

MHD-19

Gideon

C-3PO

Rebel Saboteur x2

I still need to finalize the deck build. Sabs get focus from C-3PO and Gideon, MDH keeps my guys alive, while Leia has Han attack at least twice a round.

That is a good way to look at it, what about Han is "right"? No doubt he's got a powerful blaster. He has Distracting and Return Fire as well.

However... can you tell me why you would take Han in this case over, say, Luke and Rebel High Command?

Does Luke have a powerful blaster? Check. Also he can use that lightsaber when called for.

Han has Cunning, yes. Luke has the same white die defense but he gets an innate +1 block, so regardless of what's rolled Luke will come out the same on half and 1 block better on the other half.

Han has Distracting, yes, giving each adjacent Rebel +1 evade. Luke has Inspiring and gives every friendly figure within 3 spaces a reroll on attack!

Han has two more Health points than Luke does. ... but Luke gets Recover 2 on a surge and only has to hit that once to equal Han's health, usually hits that multiple times a game.

Han's named card means you can Take Initiative, you just have to go with Han first. Powerful. Luke's named card reactivates him at any point in the round. Maybe this one goes to Han, I don't know.

Han gets Return Fire, and that's good.. if he gets shot at, if they fail to do damage. Rebel High Command gets you one additional Command Card a round. Command Cards win games.

I listed this out, off the top of my head, without any real analysis. However, I'm just pointing out why, to me, it will be a long time before I run Han instead of many other things you could get for the same amount of points.

I agree with you at every point, I do. But the question was asked, "Is Han worthless?" I want to see if we can prove that he's not worthless, and try to prove that he actually can be a force in skirmish games.

Currently, there is no good reason to take Han over Luke. I hope that changes...

I think Han can be worth it with the Mercenary faction. His distracting ability is better when combined with the black defence die.

I have played with him when allied with trandos and elite tusken, works ok. They then have a black defence die and a free evade.

Unfortunately for Mr. Solo, Threepio offers that exact service and comes with ten extra points for an extra eTrandoshan group or whatever else you'd like.

I replaced Luke with Han in the build that I won the store championship with last week. So-

Han- 12

Leia- 8

eSab- 7

eSab- 7

Gideon- 3

C3P0- 2

Targeting Computer -1

Didn't get a chance to play it last night- On the command side, all I really changed was Make My Own Luck for Son of Skywalker... can't remember what I did with the other extra point off the top of my head.

Hopefully I'll get to test it in the next day or so. It's possible that Han individually would be more effective than Luke with his return shot (remember, C3P0 next to Han is essentially 1 shield 1 surge kill)- but, you do lose a bit without Luke's reroll ability.

Ok guy, guys hear me out.

Guys, what if

What if you put Han with a Hired Gun swarm and HKs?

Han Solo
C3p0
Temporary Alliance
HK
Hired Gun x4
Last resort (One one hired gun)

Keep Han and 3p0 near the HK to provide very nice cancel evades, Han has the range to shoot in tandem with the HKs, then run your Hired guns seperated from their pair to make it hard for your opponent to gain VPs from them and run around like the annoying smugglers you are and slippery target, dirty trick, hidden cache your opponent to madness. I fully suspect the Guns to eat dust by the end of the game, but the Han, 3p0 and HK cluster could keep safe to pick up the piece of what's left afterwards.

So I've been thinking about this a lot since I'm now playing as the rebels in our TS campaign and Han is the only ally available so far. I see two problems:

a.) He costs a lot

b.) He takes damage quickly an dies easily.

Looking at his card, I feel the developers overestimated the odds of triggering Return Fire. With his white dice and cunning, his best non-dodge roll gives two Defense and one Evade. That's simply not enough to cancel an attack reliably. So you have 1/6 Dodge, 1/3 - 2 Def. 1 Ev, 1/6 - 1 Def. 1 Ev, 1/6 1 Def, and 1/6 Nothing, right?

Has anyone tried giving Han two white die for defense? At 12 points, he is the most expensive core set unit (other than IG-88 who has recover) that rolls a single defense dice. Vader (18) rolls two black, Weiss and At-ST (16 - 14) roll two black, RGC and Chewie (15) roll White Black. Lacking recover, Han takes a lot of damage quickly. Granting adjacent evades is good, but adjacency is not quite good enough.

So with 2 whites, he has a a much better chance of Dodging AND getting enough defense to totally negate an attack, making Return Fire trigger more often, further reducing the odds that your opponent will even try it. What do you think?

I dont know, 1 white dice with a 1/6 chance of dodge can be really annoying if your opponent is luckier than average. 2 white dice with a chance of 1/3 totally negating your attacks.... that just sounds annoying an non-fun

Yes, I agree with Nitratas in the sense that 2 white dice should be reserved for only some Jedi and extremely agile characters.

I think 2 whites would be taking it from 1 extreme to the other.

What about "Lucky" like on R2-D2? That would mean more chances to dodge (more chances for return fire) but would also mean that he wouldn't be able to roll tonnes of evades and/or blocks which would be rolled with 2 whites.

Yes, I agree with Nitratas in the sense that 2 white dice should be reserved for only some Jedi and extremely agile characters.

I think 2 whites would be taking it from 1 extreme to the other.

What about "Lucky" like on R2-D2? That would mean more chances to dodge (more chances for return fire) but would also mean that he wouldn't be able to roll tonnes of evades and/or blocks which would be rolled with 2 whites.

If there were a change, I think that would be it.

Or else just cost him more accurately. Personally I think he would still be overcosted at 9 points. 9 points and Lucky (Viperous' suggestion) would make him worthwhile, I think.

Yes, I agree with Nitratas in the sense that 2 white dice should be reserved for only some Jedi and extremely agile characters.

I think 2 whites would be taking it from 1 extreme to the other.

What about "Lucky" like on R2-D2? That would mean more chances to dodge (more chances for return fire) but would also mean that he wouldn't be able to roll tonnes of evades and/or blocks which would be rolled with 2 whites.

I thought Han was supposed to be agile. "Lucky" would essentially give him the same chance of rolling a dodge (1/3), but that dodge would be the only way he would negate all damage, thus triggering return fire. What about just an innate 1 evade? Then he would be able to roll 3 defend and 2 evade 1/3rd of the time (with Cunning), making it 1/6 dodge and 1/3 defense results against unlucky attack rolls? That really may be enough, IMO.

Han's defense results would be 1/6 Dodge, 1/3 3 defend 2 evade, 1/6 2 defend 1 evade, 1/6 2 defend 2 evade, and 1/6 1 defend 1 evade.

Your average trooper roll gets about 3 damage, so this would negate that 1/2 the time.

I have also said that Han needs a +1 dodge bonus, and a speed of 5.

Being fasat and agile feels like Hans atributes gaming wise.

I have also said that Han needs a +1 dodge bonus, and a speed of 5.

Being fasat and agile feels like Hans atributes gaming wise.

Agree, but think you meant +1 evade (dodge is the X, and that would be WAAAYYY OP).

You are so correct, man I usually have to remind other people about what is what and now I did the mistake....

Thanks