I recently went to store championship placed second , but my question is about what constitutes a marked dice. after the game on the drive home I was going through the recent game, and kept thinking about things that went on during the final four. during the top 4 the TO asked my future opponent why he always rolled a certain dice when taking terrain tests, which the player said it always rolls terrible. now to the final 2 during our game the player had to step away from the table for a couple minutes which I said was cool with me since no time limit for last match. while he was away the T/O took out his phone and took pictures of the dice in question and one eyeball / focus was worn off one side , and here is where my question comes into play wouldn't that constitute a marked dice ? the reason I'm asking is the more I thought about it the more it rubbed me the wrong way. if the T/O was concerned enough to take picture of the dice in question should I have spoken up about it. I do not go to this place very often, and did not want to make a scene, but should I have ?

I too have one where the paint on one Focus symbol is worn off and I have seen others with the same issue.

Regardless,

The TO should have checked the die, imho.

A player that is using an eight-sided die that they believe will land with any one side up more than 1/8 of the time is attempting to cheat.

I too have one where the paint on one Focus symbol is worn off and I have seen others with the same issue.

Regardless,

The TO should have checked the die, imho.

do you keep this dice in a separate compartment from your other dice ? because the person I,m talking about did keep his in a different area away from the other dice

But then what do you do with players that believe dice are rolling hot so they keep rolling those 3 or 4 dice. This is really superstition as the odds are still 1/8, are they not? That is, unless we are arguing there are flaws in FFG's manufacturing process. I'll often use the same dice to roll for asteroids or crits because I believe them to be cold. Doesnt mean their odds are actually different.

A player that is using an eight-sided die that they believe will land with any one side up more than 1/8 of the time is attempting to cheat.

well its too late now like I said thought about it on the ride home , and rubbed me the wrong way the more I thought about it. just asking the community what I should have done I guess hind sight and all

But then what do you do with players that believe dice are rolling hot so they keep rolling those 3 or 4 dice. This is really superstition as the odds are still 1/8, are they not? That is, unless we are arguing there are flaws in FFG's manufacturing process. I'll often use the same dice to roll for asteroids or crits because I believe them to be cold. Doesnt mean their odds are actually different.

I agree with what your saying , but have you salt water tested your dice as this person i,m asking about has done? or joked about having done.

But then what do you do with players that believe dice are rolling hot so they keep rolling those 3 or 4 dice. This is really superstition as the odds are still 1/8, are they not? That is, unless we are arguing there are flaws in FFG's manufacturing process. I'll often use the same dice to roll for asteroids or crits because I believe them to be cold. Doesnt mean their odds are actually different.

I agree with what your saying , but have you salt water tested your dice as this person i,m asking about has done? or joked about having done.

Even joking about that would be enough for me to get the TO to insist he use a different set of dice entirely. People who use a die they think is unlucky for applications where bad results are better than good ones, are attempting to cheat regardless of whether their belief is correct.

I too have one where the paint on one Focus symbol is worn off and I have seen others with the same issue.

Regardless,

The TO should have checked the die, imho.

do you keep this dice in a separate compartment from your other dice ? because the person I,m talking about did keep his in a different area away from the other dice

After I discovered the defect, yes. But I never use it, so.

If a die does in fact have a manufacturing defect and that change the odds, I'd say as a TO, if someone had marked it and makes a point of using it in given roles, then I'd tell them they had to stop using that die.

I disagree that someone using hot dice is cheating though. Because based on that logic if someone has a lucky hat or coin or any other talisman, then those would have to be removed or else the person would be equally guilty of cheating.

Is a TO honestly going to tell someone they have to take off their lucky shorts or else be DQ'ed?

If a die does in fact have a manufacturing defect and that change the odds, I'd say as a TO, if someone had marked it and makes a point of using it in given roles, then I'd tell them they had to stop using that die.

I disagree that someone using hot dice is cheating though. Because based on that logic if someone has a lucky hat or coin or any other talisman, then those would have to be removed or else the person would be equally guilty of cheating.

Is a TO honestly going to tell someone they have to take off their lucky shorts or else be DQ'ed?

I don't know. If someone's dice are fair and it's just superstition, fine. If they have a specific set of lucky dice that they use on critical rolls, I have no way of knowing that those dice are actually fair dice they just trust more, or whether they've weighted them somehow.

I'm not sure why anyone would bother weighting a die in a game where the only thing you stand to win is like... range rulers and stuff... but I'd care about it and do something about it if I thought they had, because I'm here to test my skill against their skil at x-wing, not my skill against their skill with a drill and a tiny amount of metal or whatever.

If a die does in fact have a manufacturing defect and that change the odds, I'd say as a TO, if someone had marked it and makes a point of using it in given roles, then I'd tell them they had to stop using that die.

I disagree that someone using hot dice is cheating though. Because based on that logic if someone has a lucky hat or coin or any other talisman, then those would have to be removed or else the person would be equally guilty of cheating.

Is a TO honestly going to tell someone they have to take off their lucky shorts or else be DQ'ed?

I don't know. If someone's dice are fair and it's just superstition, fine. If they have a specific set of lucky dice that they use on critical rolls, I have no way of knowing that those dice are actually fair dice they just trust more, or whether they've weighted them somehow.

I'm not sure why anyone would bother weighting a die in a game where the only thing you stand to win is like... range rulers and stuff... but I'd care about it and do something about it if I thought they had, because I'm here to test my skill against their skil at x-wing, not my skill against their skill with a drill and a tiny amount of metal or whatever.

and I agree I am not saying anyone was cheating per say (to late to say anything if he was), but it was for the plaque and a first round bye. I am wondering if I should have pushed the issue then due to the T/O feeling the need to picture the dice for I assume for future events.

The TO may be right behind you in posting a question on these boards asking and that could be why he took a pic. If someone admitted they had salt water tested, I would absolutely require they use different dice.

Personally, I bring 6 reds and 6 greens, and just from rolling them, I believe they roll the best, but somehow someway, I still blank out my greens and lose Soontir...ugh...x-wing

If a die does in fact have a manufacturing defect and that change the odds, I'd say as a TO, if someone had marked it and makes a point of using it in given roles, then I'd tell them they had to stop using that die.I disagree that someone using hot dice is cheating though. Because based on that logic if someone has a lucky hat or coin or any other talisman, then those would have to be removed or else the person would be equally guilty of cheating.Is a TO honestly going to tell someone they have to take off their lucky shorts or else be DQ'ed?

If a player actually thinks that a dice of thiers is giving anything but a random d8 roll that dice should end up in the trash, not used for specefic rolls.

Because based on that logic if someone has a lucky hat or coin or any other talisman, then those would have to be removed or else the person would be equally guilty of cheating.

No they would not. They would be guilty of trying to cheat (and also of being an idiot).

But, if that person honestly thinks that doing X will skew the results of a random outcome generator, then how is that acceptable? Would you be ok with someone putting their dice in the microwave to modify them to roll more critical hit results if it turned out that they did not heat them long enough to make an actual difference?

The point is that die results are supposed to be random. The fact that someone tries to manipulate the results and fails, whether through superstition or ineptitude, doesn't make their efforts acceptable.

A player that is using an eight-sided die that they believe will land with any one side up more than 1/8 of the time is attempting to cheat.

I have to call BS on this statement. Belief is not fact. I believe that I roll better results when I shake the in cupped hands rather than one hand but I have no proof of that.

If they have a specific set of lucky dice that they use on critical rolls

The TO can disallow any component at their discretion, so if someone has marked a die only uses it for some types of rolls the TO can and should bar the use of that die.

Because if that die rolls outside the normal random chance it likely has a defect. So it either shouldn't be used at all, or at least shouldn't be set aside and marked.

I'm not sure why anyone would bother weighting a die in a game where the only thing you stand to win is like... range rulers and stuff...

Because for most cheaters winning means a great deal more than the prize won. Why would anyone cheat at solitaire? Yet some people will.

Inevitably there are dice that will be improperly balanced.

True, but how do you know if that's actually true? It could be those dice are in fact truly random and give the typical results, but the person in question due to confirmation bias think they're better.

They would be guilty of trying to cheat (and also of being an idiot).

Which is no different than someone thinking a given set of dice are better than other dice, unless they've actually tested them.

The fact that someone tries to manipulate the results and fails, whether through superstition or ineptitude, doesn't make their efforts acceptable.

So if someone is wearing a lucky hat you'll make them take it off right? Because based on this statement, intention is the only thing that matters.

If a die does in fact have a manufacturing defect and that change the odds, I'd say as a TO, if someone had marked it and makes a point of using it in given roles, then I'd tell them they had to stop using that die.I disagree that someone using hot dice is cheating though. Because based on that logic if someone has a lucky hat or coin or any other talisman, then those would have to be removed or else the person would be equally guilty of cheating.Is a TO honestly going to tell someone they have to take off their lucky shorts or else be DQ'ed?

Difference being that lucky trinket does not have any impact on the roll, where as that "lucky" dice is the roll. Inevitably there are dice that will be improperly balanced.

If a player actually thinks that a dice of thiers is giving anything but a random d8 roll that dice should end up in the trash, not used for specefic rolls.

If you argue that, you could argue FFG should replace them then as their product is defective.

If you argue that, you could argue FFG should replace them then as their product is defective.

Well... That depends.

There is going to be acceptable tolerances in manufacturing that we may not consider acceptable. Is a die that rolls <hits> 5% more often then it should acceptable? Is 2% or 1%? No die is going to roll completely random it's going to be skewed one way or another.

The way I look at it, is they'll tend to balance each other out. So if I grab 4-6 dice at random from my kit and pick ones to roll at random when the time comes. The fact that some of my dice may roll better than they should is in part countered by the ones that roll worse than normal.

If however I tested all my dice and found the ones that rolled best and the ones that rolled worse, and marked them so I could use them in the correct situation that's something completely different.

But my issue is that if we declare intent to be the deciding factor, then any superstition or other method to control the results means you're cheating.

So a lucky hat or always having my dice with <crit> or <evade> result showing when they're not being used is as much cheating as taking a drill to a die.

A player that is using an eight-sided die that they believe will land with any one side up more than 1/8 of the time is attempting to cheat.

I have to call BS on this statement. Belief is not fact. I believe that I roll better results when I shake the in cupped hands rather than one hand but I have no proof of that.

No reasonable person would argue that belief equates fact, so call whatever you want. If someone takes an action that they believe will impact a result that a game requires to be random, then they are attempting to cheat.

I'm sure that the dice are injection molded, tumbled to remove mold lines then the markings are painted. There's no guarantee that a small void is not present in the interior of the die or dice. Also, the images are pressed into die faces at the time of molding and unless specifically designed, the amount of material displaced by the mold will vary from image to image. For example a focus more than a crit more than a hit. Additionally, the two blank faces on each die, which are on opposite sides, will weigh more. (Red dice)

Aside from the possible internal void, I don't know if variations in face weight will appreciably skew the results. Floating the die will only tell you if the die is unbalanced. It won't tell you by how much or if that imbalance is going to be a problem.

then they are attempting to cheat.

Ok then that means if someone is wearing a hat they consider lucky, you'll tell them they have to take it off when they're playing against you... Be interesting to see what a TO does when he refuses.

For what it's worth. Someone did test all his FFG dice and they were pretty random. Guy built a robot that rolled the dice and set up a camera to record the result and parse it to a excel file I believe.

After 10,000 rolls with each die he reported the results were about what you expected.

A player that is using an eight-sided die that they believe will land with any one side up more than 1/8 of the time is attempting to cheat.

I have to call BS on this statement. Belief is not fact. I believe that I roll better results when I shake the in cupped hands rather than one hand but I have no proof of that.

No reasonable person would argue that belief equates fact, so call whatever you want. If someone takes an action that they believe will impact a result that a game requires to be random, then they are attempting to cheat.

So if I rub my stomach and pat my head before every roll because I think it's going to provide a favorable outcome I'm trying to cheat? You ever watch people playing craps? If the casino's haven't banned them then I have to assume they aren't cheating.

You might want to brush up on the definition of random. If I flip a coin a dozen times and it lands heads up a dozen times am I cheating or is this not a random occurrence? If you say it's not random or I'm somehow cheating you'd be wrong on both counts.

I don't completely disagree with Rapture, but the bar for cheating has to be higher than simple intent, it has to be both intent and ability.

If I have a die that will land with <hit> up 75% of the time, but I don't actually know that, because I've never tested it, and don't have it marked in some way. I'm not cheating even if I roll that die every time.

Likewise the idea that you're cheating by having a lucky coin in your pocket is IMO anyway nonsense.

If however I know that die rolls better than avg and mark it, even if my rolls aren't really above avg as a whole, I'm still cheating, because I not only intended to change the odds I had the ability to do so.

I guess another way to put it, is it's cheating even if you don't win.