My community is currently non-existent. There are two people I know of who play. But we're going to make a big push this spring, after a 40k league wraps up. So I'll have to go back to this thread and let you all know how things are going.
How is your community holding up?
When you play 600-700 points is it rather expandable. 3D asteriods, space station 20 squadrons, 10 ships on board. Millions of combinations.
They're talking that each side only has 4 or 5 ship options. They want more in a game that's going to be 2+ hours long. That's just what I've been told.
And they'll get it.
When you play 600-700 points is it rather expandable. 3D asteriods, space station 20 squadrons, 10 ships on board. Millions of combinations.
They're talking that each side only has 4 or 5 ship options. They want more in a game that's going to be 2+ hours long. That's just what I've been told.
Armada does bring a lot of diversity with lists, but it's not in ship type currently. You have a lot of upgrade cards (most of which are usable) and many squadron options. If I were to contrast this to X-wing, in wave 2 X-wing you had very few good upgrade cards. Coupled with 4 ships per faction, the list diversity was much smaller than it is with Armada wave 2.
When you play 600-700 points is it rather expandable. 3D asteriods, space station 20 squadrons, 10 ships on board. Millions of combinations.
They're talking that each side only has 4 or 5 ship options. They want more in a game that's going to be 2+ hours long. That's just what I've been told.
When you play 600-700 points is it rather expandable. 3D asteriods, space station 20 squadrons, 10 ships on board. Millions of combinations.
They're talking that each side only has 4 or 5 ship options. They want more in a game that's going to be 2+ hours long. That's just what I've been told.
Armada does bring a lot of diversity with lists, but it's not in ship type currently. You have a lot of upgrade cards (most of which are usable) and many squadron options. If I were to contrast this to X-wing, in wave 2 X-wing you had very few good upgrade cards. Coupled with 4 ships per faction, the list diversity was much smaller than it is with Armada wave 2.
And a Fat Han list still dominated the tourney scene for how long? Hell, it's probably still a viable build.
That's one thing I like about Armada so far. There isn't a massive diversity in ships, and yet there's not a single list that has begun to dominate the tourney scene.
When you play 600-700 points is it rather expandable. 3D asteriods, space station 20 squadrons, 10 ships on board. Millions of combinations.
They're talking that each side only has 4 or 5 ship options. They want more in a game that's going to be 2+ hours long. That's just what I've been told.
Armada does bring a lot of diversity with lists, but it's not in ship type currently. You have a lot of upgrade cards (most of which are usable) and many squadron options. If I were to contrast this to X-wing, in wave 2 X-wing you had very few good upgrade cards. Coupled with 4 ships per faction, the list diversity was much smaller than it is with Armada wave 2.
And a Fat Han list still dominated the tourney scene for how long? Hell, it's probably still a viable build.
That's one thing I like about Armada so far. There isn't a massive diversity in ships, and yet there's not a single list that has begun to dominate the tourney scene.
Whether or not Fat Han dominated has no bearing on what I said. I don't want to get in the discussion of which game is better, I was just pointing out that having 4-5 ships per faction still means diversity through a lot of upgrades and squadrons, which X-wing didn't have at the time.
I don't think I worded my response well. I was agreeing with you. You're looking at about the same number of ship choices per faction in Wave 2, but in X-Wing there was one clear winner (Han Solo) that people would take to tourneys to beat face pretty reliably.
Judging from the forums here, Vassal tourney results, and what I've seen around the internet, there is currently no Fat Han equivalent in Armada. There are plenty of combos that are more powerful than others, but no single internet list that everyone is fielding because it gives you a massive leg up on your opponent. Hell, there's even no consensus to which admiral from each faction is the "best", because it relies so heavily on your fleet composition and what upgrades you take. And I love that. I get really amped up at the fact that, with only four or five ship choices per faction, there are so many combinations you can take with such a variety of strengths and weaknesses. It makes tourneys a lot more interesting to not have to worry about facing the same list three times.
And a Fat Han list still dominated the tourney scene for how long?
Honestly about a year., and really isn't nearly as much in favor now. Fat Han didn't really become a thing until after the CR-90 was released with C-3PO. Last years worlds didn't have many of them due to the change in the MoV score. So pretty much from June 2014 to mid 2015...
Hell, it's probably still a viable build.
It is, but it isn't nearly as dominant as it was, but even then that was largely due to Phantoms, and a Fat Han being both a hard counter to Phantoms and a good against most everything else.
It was never that Fan Han was so amazing, it was much more phantom paranoia and the fact that it was a forgiving list to fly.
More in a game? Does the strategy and depth of the game not interest them? I am so confused
When you play 600-700 points is it rather expandable. 3D asteriods, space station 20 squadrons, 10 ships on board. Millions of combinations.
They're talking that each side only has 4 or 5 ship options. They want more in a game that's going to be 2+ hours long. That's just what I've been told.
Not really. We live in an age with a good number of "strategic" and "deep" games. I wouldn't look twice at this one if it wasn't Star Wars. The target audience for SW: Armada seems to be the Warmachine and Warhammer players, someone who doesn't mind playing a single game in an evening. To the people I've spoken to, this game doesn't have the number of ship options they would like in this kind of game. Upgrades are cool, but they don't make the game look any more interesting on the table.
Of the two, X-Wing and Armada, I think X-Wing hit that sweet spot of having good tactical options while providing a game that lasts less than an hour. As a father of two small kids, a full time job and other responsibilities, there's a lot of incentive to play a game that won't eat up my night or I can play more than one in an evening.
I really want to compare X-Wing after 4 Years, with Armada after 4 Years...
That I think is a more fair comparison...
We might live in an age of strategic and deep games, but this is the only "Big ship" game I've found that is readily accessable, and actually has ships feel like they have inertia.
The length of a game depends on you and your opponent. The tourney I went to started at about 11 and was done by two. We only played two rounds due to number of players, but that three hours included setup, game, breakdown to move tables, setup, game, breakdown. And none of us were playing quickly. It's a LOT faster than Warhammer (though I played Dwarves for ten years, so my turn took all of five minutes tops). True, it can take longer than X-Wing, but it's far more tactical. You have to think two or three (possibly four) turns in advance, whereas in X-Wing you can generally stay in the moment, or one turn ahead. I love both games, but for me the tactical depth of Armada is more than a fair trade for its tactical depth.
I really want to compare X-Wing after 4 Years, with Armada after 4 Years...
That I think is a more fair comparison...
We might live in an age of strategic and deep games, but this is the only "Big ship" game I've found that is readily accessable, and actually has ships feel like they have inertia.
Did you ever try BFG? It had a very similar feeling, especially to that last point. Just way more dice. Plus, when a ship exploded, it could domino-effect half your fleet, which was awesome and terrible and hilarious.
I really want to compare X-Wing after 4 Years, with Armada after 4 Years...
To be honest I'd rather not compare them at all. If Armada can't make it on it's own merits then something is wrong with the game. The point of my post above was to correct a mistake about X-Wings history.
Armada may not be as deep or offer as many options as some other games, but I don't consider that to be a problem. As long as the game is what it's intended to be, then the question is if you want to play it or not.
It's like the TMNT game that's coming out. Some people are panning it because it doesn't seem as deep as Imp Assault or Decent. But I already own Imp Assault and would like a game that's a bit less deep in some places but perhaps more deep in others.
Its more the "But X-Wing has more Stuff." that I was countering.
Of course it does, its been around longer.
"Armada doesn't have enough Variety."
Of course, it doesn't, its a year old. Give it time.
That's all.
Its more the "But X-Wing has more Stuff." that I was countering.
Of course it does, its been around longer.
"Armada doesn't have enough Variety."
Of course, it doesn't, its a year old. Give it time.
That's all.
Its more the "But X-Wing has more Stuff." that I was countering.
Of course it does, its been around longer.
"Armada doesn't have enough Variety."
Of course, it doesn't, its a year old. Give it time.
That's all.
Which is great. I'm quite satisfied with my Armada purchases now. I officially own everything I'd like to have for this game. I can build nearly any list I'd like except spam lists. But when I'm playing on the usual meet up day and someone is watching the game, the top excuses from them as to why they don't want to buy in is:
1. Too few ships to choose from.
2. Takes far too long to play "for what it is".
3. It costs too much.
I think there's a bit of a bias from hobbyists that pre-painted=fluff and not a "real" game.
Its more the "But X-Wing has more Stuff." that I was countering.
That's fair 
Although myself I don't think it needs more stuff. I mean I get some people think that and you're right, you can't compare a 1 year old game to a 3+ year old one that way.
But myself I'm of the opinion that I have nearly everything I really want for Armada. I have Moncals, I have a ISD, VSD, CR-90's, ect... Which isn't to say I wouldn't want more ships, but if at this point they only released 4-6 new models but then released Ace Packs with old models and new upgrades I'd be fine.
But OTOH if someone thinks that there isn't enough ships in Amada right now that's a fair thing for them to say, if someone feels they need 10+ ships per faction then that's how they feel. But myself I don't think Armada should have the same number of different models that X-Wing does... You can only go so far into the EU before things start to get weird.
I think there's a bit of a bias from hobbyists that pre-painted=fluff and not a "real" game.
That's true in X-Wing as well. I've heard more than one person try to claim it's not a real war game or miniature game because you don't have to assemble and paint the miniatures.
Nothing stopping you from having your Pre-painted Ships Re-Painted... Or get those little fighter stands done up looking pretty?
... Have I mentioned recently I run a very affordable Squadron Painting Service, and do larger ships on Negotiation, too?
I think there's a bit of a bias from hobbyists that pre-painted=fluff and not a "real" game.
That's true in X-Wing as well. I've heard more than one person try to claim it's not a real war game or miniature game because you don't have to assemble and paint the miniatures.
Agreed. I think it's saving grace is that it is very accessible with how quick it is to pick up and learn. And, of course, that it's Star Wars.
Its more the "But X-Wing has more Stuff." that I was countering.
Of course it does, its been around longer.
"Armada doesn't have enough Variety."
Of course, it doesn't, its a year old. Give it time.
That's all.
Pssh, more like three years' time. THEY'VE ONLY RELEASED TWO WAVES IN ONE YEAR, PEOPLE!!! /sarcasm
Or get those little fighter stands done up looking pretty?
I painted my fighters and touched up my large ships with a wash and such. Having painted a 1750 space marine army, most of my Imp Assault models, 40 odd points of Warmachine, 3 armies for FoW... I'm ok with a brush.
Today I took a list I had and added defense liaisons to all 5 ships with Tarkin instead of screed and his crit effect cards in a 700 point build: ISD II, VSDII, VSD I, Glad II Demolisher, Glad I, and 11 squadrons and wow what a difference those two changes made to the entire feel and strategy of the game. Less of a hammer but wow I could maneuver better and hit regenerate shields and remove damage cards in a flash as needed. Awesome. The thing is I sit around building hundreds of awesome list and only get to try a handful. I find building lists very fun. The game has so much diversity with what is out after wave II. Yes, wave one was very, very limiting, but wave II blew the entire door open. Armada is not for gamers that need instant gratification or have ADHD. No I am not saying if you don't like Armada you have ADHD, just saying those two groups of people won't like it. There is also a third group of people who don't like it who I sympathize with below: the people who don't want to waste hours and hours just to understand the rules spot waste game time looking up random forums for rules questions because ff was too lazy to compile the necessary rules resources in an online library. Their stupid FhQ is a joke. Then there are others who just don't enjoy seeing a battle unfold and are more concerned with just chucking dice.
Kids, jobs, blah blah blah....excuses. We all make time for those things we love. Golf takes hours playing, practicing, and getting to and from. Hiking, disc golf, etc all take a lot of time. Anyone who plays sports is use to 3-5 hour experiences. Armada is an experience, It isn't the kids etc but your love for the activity and willingness to make the time like any other hobby. The primary issue with Armada as I see it IMHO, is playing it enough to get the playing time down and so it plays smooth; and playing it enough to understand the nuances of this mighty game. At first, the game seems clunky because the moving parts are not well explained in the rulebook and the resource to finding the answers to things like Engine techs and Demolisher will drive you nuts at first. Plus, it is just one of those games that is complex enough that it just takes time "getting it." Just like it takes time learning golf, etc. This is a game that rewards patience and plays. However, when you do have all those responsibilities/excuses it can be difficult to have faith that the game will eventually reward you if you stick with it--really that is the crux of the issue of the popularity of Armada. Most people can't see things through and are not willing to have faith that the wrinkles will iron themselves out with time. Almost everyone has an evening once a week/week and a half with 3-4 hours to spend and what you decide to do with that evening it up to you. You can have several games or one really deeply satisfying game. Most people just don't understand the suttle nuances of the game because they have not studied/played it enough to get into the deep, deep strategy with the tactics weaved in. It is like my favorite game War of the Ring...some people just don't have the attention span and level of concentration to devote seeing a plan through and making changes on the fly over the course of 4 hours. Some people find longer games to be a journey; and the joy is in the journey and not so much the outcome. Again, not necessarily an ADHD thing, just the modern need for instant gratification. All the Call of Duty etc. games have trained most gamers to get their pleasure in minutes not hours and people forget the pleasure of things that take time to develop. For example, the historical war gaming scene has slowly died over the years because people just don't have the patience they once did. It is easy to use excuses like kids, work, etc, but the reality is they just don't have the precious commodity of patience.p to see something through--some of it is also faith. If you got someone you trust telling you if you put in the time you'll likely enjoy it you are far more willing to stick with it. However, the price point of Armada means you are taking a leap of faith because to enjoy the game you gpcan't dip your toe in. People make time for the things they love. The issue with Armada is it does not reveal itself instantly like shorter, easier games. Fantasy flight always makes the smallest rule book they can at the cost of clarity so that game looks less complex than they are. The truth is that Fantasy Flight really screwed up with Armada by not making a better rule book with 10 more pages and illustrative example along with an online guide to the explain the intent of each card. They should have made a data base for questions. So many people have run away from this game due to the terrible rules explanation and time spent looking up rules during their first few games. The beginning games are long because the rules questions slow the game down far too much. It saps the excitement. It is the biggest game business screw up I have ever seen by far. So many more people would have stuck with the game if they could go to the FF website, scroll down a drop down menu of cards and rules and read example for each card or rule etc. most people spend 40 or so minutes of each of their first 5 games just debating and looking up the rules on random internet sites. No wonder so many people gave up. Half of the people who don't like the game lack the funds to play or the patience. However, I also find an equal number of people, if not more, gave up on the game out of frustration because the rules are written so poorly and they lack of readily available rules resources. Maybe some of those people don't actually lack patience, they just lack patience with the the BS way the rules are written and the resources explaining those rules. For example, there should be an easy drop down menu on engine techs where you could read how they work using a couple of paragraphs and visual examples. Explain how Demolisher works with engine techs etc. This kind of amateur marketing/design crap is what FF should be most ashamed of. It killed the number of available players in your area maybe even more than its cost and people's lack of time or patience. FF should have done their own tutorials like LYraeus and other do from the get go. Warlord games did it with Bolt Action. Complex games need tutorials and the proper online rules data bases to support them. They should also have provided full game examples for those who don't like reading rules.
I own both games: X-wing and Armada. One is a great lets chuck some dice and see who gets lucky wham bam thank you man while the other at 700 points is an epic throwdown that has you holding your breath and making some agonizing decisions for hours. Armada makes you have to make some difficult decisions and some of those are push your luck and also hedging your bets based on what you think your opponent might see and what he might not see that turn or next. However, X-wing is easier to understand by far and the cost of entry to finding out it if you like the game is reasonable. Armada needed better support to overcome the complexity and price issue.
If you have too many obligations to where you can't give Armada an evening once every three weeks, then it is not worth the expensive investment. I play once every three weeks with friends and also play once a week with the wife playing three rounds over the course of two nights. We have kids and when they go to bed we play games: euro usually and also Armada and other Ameritrash games. We all make time for the things we love. Some hike, some golf etc. If it is not your thing, I understand that, but unfortunately to really understand Armada and appreciate it does not come easy because the price of admission. To really "get" the game takes at least 5 plays with another who knows what they are doing (more plays if you are not playing with someone with experience and tons of time on the forums looking up rules) and at a low 400 points that is 15 hours just to put in to see if it is worth getting much more involved. The intricacies of the game are so numerous they defy mentioning now the game has hit its stride with wave II. Too many people give up on it because they don't understand the rules well enough to make the game flow. When you put in the work the game flows great and 700 points flows great. It just takes effort getting to that point. The high points flush out the beauty of the game and make it epic and worthy of being called "Armada." Because 600-700 points takes 3-5 hours depnding on experience, it is difficult for most to ever play it enough to "get it." You have to play it enough to be able to play 700 point games to get it down to 3 hours. I am at 4 hours currently but know after another 10 plays it will be 3 tops. I have been delayed entirely because it has taken me so darn long to get a correct understand of all the rules--all because FF was stupid as all get out in producing the rules for such a complex game. Laxy, lazy, lazy. Stupid too. Not assigning 100 hours of work by two people cost them hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars and cost us players in our local area. I can tell you one thing, I play with a lot of board gamers with huge collections... 60-120 games. The ones that don't gravitate toward the longer Ameritrash and euro games like Armada are also the very same people who don't like games lasting more than 1 to 1.5 hours. I can almost predict perfectly who will and will not like it. However, some just can't stand how the rules were presented and just gave up in frustration. They were tired of spending hours looking up rules. Some people want results immediately and other don't. People should not have to spend hours getting all the rules down because a game company is too lazy to write a decent online resource rules guide.
Some people appreciate "building" up toward something and others don't. However, some people just don't have the time to waste on FF wasting their time through terrible rules. I certainly can't really blame those reasons. That isn't lazy...it is not letting a company waste their precious time all because they couldn't spend the resource compiling the resources.
It is not an inditement of those who don't like Armada due to their attention span and willingness to give it multiple game, this comment of mine is an inditement of all those who dismiss it without ever understanding the game and passing judgement on it. It is one of those games that you just can't pass judgement on until you put in the time and understand the rules well enough to get it to flow. You have to pay to play is game. In time and in money. Unfortunately, fantasy flight got in their own way when it came to the time issue of the game. Thanks FF for taking my $800 and making it so difficult to find local players in such a huge market as middle Tennessee because you screwed up so hardcore on the rules and the resources.
Armada has a TON of variety. Sure just ships it does not BUT upgrades, compliment of squadrons, objectives, and commanders all change things radicallyIts more the "But X-Wing has more Stuff." that I was countering.
Of course it does, its been around longer.
"Armada doesn't have enough Variety."
Of course, it doesn't, its a year old. Give it time.
That's all.
*Upon seeing above post*
Look at the size of that thing!