And...? If the Imperial government shut off sports feeds, every citizen and soldier would revote.

The peasants are revoting!

The peasants are revoting!

The peasants are revoting!

The peasants are revoting!

Apparently - according to Strongholds of Resistance - after Alderaan's destruction, the Empire suspended the space equivalent of the World Cup and nobody cared. If FIFA did that, Europe and South America would be in flames.

Apparently - according to Strongholds of Resistance - after Alderaan's destruction, the Empire suspended the space equivalent of the World Cup and nobody cared. If FIFA did that, Europe and South America would be in flames.

In the general sense, nobody cared... but I am sure some did... out of the vast galaxy of uncountable persons...

This is pre imperial control of the holonet

Not sure what the point of the comment is. The OP's question has to do with whether such "immediate" broadcasts are possible and if the technology exists to allow it. I think we see this pretty clearly in both the OT and the PT.

I think you are all trying to solve this with your 21st century brains. As a child of the 70's, I think it is a more simple solution.

He goes to sports bar (similar to the movie) and they are streaming vision via a comms channel, no different to a TV set, only its an intergalactic signal being beamed to the bar. Don't think of it as a computer terminal, a webpage, or the holonet, think of it more like how TV made it to bars in the late 20th century.

I'm a child of the 70s. And the solution doesn't appear more "complicated" just because the tech is more sophisticated.

I'm not sure the broadcast TV analogy works. "Intergalactic signals beamed to the bar" would still need an original signal source. As Max says, if you're "beaming" it through some non-Holonet relay system, it's going to be a few hundred or thousand years before the signal will get there.

The Coruscant sports bar only works if it's being relayed through a near-real-time system. That means delays are caused by either:

1) data processing delays

2) political intervention

It's entirely reasonable to believe that political intervention happens all the time in the OT and the PT. But I find it hard to believe that at a bar in the centre of the civilized galaxy that people are watching weeks- or months- or years-old sports broadcasts, on the basis that it takes that long to get the signals there. Especially when they seem to be able to talk to each other real-time in most other contexts.

(subtitle - Freaky History Channel Guy saying 'Aliens')

Within a system? Sure. Across systems? Unlikely. In all systems? Probably not.

I'm not sure the broadcast TV analogy works. "Intergalactic signals beamed to the bar" would still need an original signal source. As Max says, if you're "beaming" it through some non-Holonet relay system, it's going to be a few hundred or thousand years before the signal will get there.

I think you misunderstood my point. What I was trying to say is that I don't think you should look at the sports coming through from a data network linked to internet like delivery of information. I was eluding to perhaps it is a network dedicated to delivery of entertainment, much like the original cable TV channels ie from source directly to the display. Sure, there is probably a delay as the signal needs to bounce from planetary relay to relay.

It is clear that comms channels aren't high res as the comms between Vader/Emperor, Snopes/Star Killer Base are see-through low res holograms (ie not a realistic 3D hologram). Plus they are very rarely used, only the Empire, Jedi, Trade Federation used them in the films. Even Luke had to send his message to Jabba via R2 (sure there was ulterior plans there, but Jabba seem to accept a holographic message). That seems to imply a difficulty in sending large amounts of data via galactic based bandwidths.

I agree there isn't, not should be, internet like information available in Star Wars. There is little/no evidence of such in cannon. I am just throwing a suggestion out there as to how the sports is getting to the bar. Maybe they are actually a hard coded prerecorded game sent via courier on information disk!

I'm getting the impression that a lot of people don't WANT there to be intergalactic-relay, wireless data access in the Star Wars universe -- despite the plethora of information that suggests it is available (if not always widely). Just because it isn't in Episode IV doesn't mean it doesn't exist afterwards, or -- by extension of the PT -- beforehand. Is there a "Lo-Tech Lobby" at work here or something? Where are the blinders coming from?

Plus they are very rarely used, only the Empire, Jedi, Trade Federation used them in the films.

That's only, what, like, most of the players in the movies? With the exception being the Rebels, who, let's not forget, are trying to avoid detection, and thus probably don't have access to galactic info relays?

There is little/no evidence of such in cannon.

So...all the evidence we've shown -- real-time communications across systems, clear suggestions that this is also playing a role in entertainment -- doesn't count?

Maybe they are actually a hard coded prerecorded game sent via courier on information disk!

That is just speculation. All we have is what we see in front of us: a bar playing live sports. Without extrapolating too much on how it got there, let's assume it got there the same way we ALREADY KNOW how people are communicating across the galaxy: live, wireless, via galactic relay.

Let's go over what we know for sure:

1. Real-time, wireless, galactic-relay data transmission exists and is used by several key players (Jedi, Republic, Empire, Han and Leia on Millenium Falcon, most likely citizens or businesses on Coruscant, the Trade Federation, the planet of Naboo, Padme's ship)

2. Not everyone has access to real-time, wireless, galactic-relay data transmission (Rebel Alliance, possibly Jabba)

3. Some groups prefer, or are forced to use analog data transmission (Rebel Alliance, possibly Jabba)

If anything, there is MORE evidence to suggest that real-time, wireless, intergalactic data transmission is widely available than not available.

How anyone could take all that and suggest "there's no internet in Star Wars" is beyond me. You might as well say "there's no sexual reproduction in Star Wars" because we never see anyone doing the deed, and Luke and Leia MUST be the product of parthenogenesis.

I'm not sure the broadcast TV analogy works. "Intergalactic signals beamed to the bar" would still need an original signal source. As Max says, if you're "beaming" it through some non-Holonet relay system, it's going to be a few hundred or thousand years before the signal will get there.

I think you misunderstood my point. What I was trying to say is that I don't think you should look at the sports coming through from a data network linked to internet like delivery of information. I was eluding to perhaps it is a network dedicated to delivery of entertainment, much like the original cable TV channels ie from source directly to the display. Sure, there is probably a delay as the signal needs to bounce from planetary relay to relay.

It is clear that comms channels aren't high res as the comms between Vader/Emperor, Snopes/Star Killer Base are see-through low res holograms (ie not a realistic 3D hologram). Plus they are very rarely used, only the Empire, Jedi, Trade Federation used them in the films. Even Luke had to send his message to Jabba via R2 (sure there was ulterior plans there, but Jabba seem to accept a holographic message). That seems to imply a difficulty in sending large amounts of data via galactic based bandwidths.

I agree there isn't, not should be, internet like information available in Star Wars. There is little/no evidence of such in cannon. I am just throwing a suggestion out there as to how the sports is getting to the bar. Maybe they are actually a hard coded prerecorded game sent via courier on information disk!

And yet as we've found out, the same infrastructure used to deliver cable TV can easily be made to also allow two-way high-speed data transfer.

How anyone could take all that and suggest "there's no internet in Star Wars" is beyond me. You might as well say "there's no sexual reproduction in Star Wars" because we never see anyone doing the deed, and Luke and Leia MUST be the product of parthenogenesis.

And there must be no bathrooms...maybe because there's barely any food

All this "SW has no internet" comes from WEG, which was written before the internet was something more than 0.5% of the population knew about. They were the wellspring of a lot of the EU (which, despite my dislike of the EU in general, has to be admired for its fecundity), but a lot of the old attitudes have stuck, unfortunately.

WEG isn't canon, and the writers didn't have a clue. In contrast, the writers at the helm of canon have made a point of showing that the SW universe has everything we have and far more. Don't pay the price for the lack of WEG's vision!

How anyone could take all that and suggest "there's no internet in Star Wars" is beyond me. You might as well say "there's no sexual reproduction in Star Wars" because we never see anyone doing the deed, and Luke and Leia MUST be the product of parthenogenesis.

And there must be no bathrooms...maybe because there's barely any food

All this "SW has no internet" comes from WEG, which was written before the internet was something more than 0.5% of the population knew about. They were the wellspring of a lot of the EU (which, despite my dislike of the EU in general, has to be admired for its fecundity), but a lot of the old attitudes have stuck, unfortunately.

WEG isn't canon, and the writers didn't have a clue. In contrast, the writers at the helm of canon have made a point of showing that the SW universe has everything we have and far more. Don't pay the price for the lack of WEG's vision!

And the thing is, some WEG products showed that there was some form of widespread and robust data exchange, with a radical underground segment during the Imperial period.

Check Fragments From The Rim, pages 80-83, for one small taste.

There is a vast difference in accessing/sending voice/hologram vs sound+visions vs access to an endless amount of information via a real-time intergalactic network.

You are right. I don't want my Star Wars to have an internet. Players should struggle to find out information. Break into computers, fast talk people, pay for info. Having a datapad that is an encyclopedia of info is boring, and was never shown in the movies.

That is my version of SW, so I think I will leave it at that. You are welcome to play your version.

I betcha Rogue 1 goes into some of this very discussion.

You are right. I don't want my Star Wars to have an internet. Players should struggle to find out information. Break into computers, fast talk people, pay for info.

Uh...we have the internet, and people who want information still need to do those things. The presence of an internet doesn't preclude that kind of activity.

parthenogenesis.

Well played sir. That's the second time I've ever seen "parthenogenesis" used in the wild!

The other time, of course, was the eighties:

Im hearing a consensus that as far as information goes, there is no 'immediately available, inexhaustible, continually updated' data base at the fingertips of anyone with a computer terminal. The computer one is accessing either has the information in its own localized memory (or hardwired network) or one has to request it from another source.

Han and Leia on the Falcon ESB - they were searching the Falcon's own database, no doubt laboriously added to and updated by Han during his travels and probably suited toward the types of inquiries he would be in need of. If they needed some bit of info not included there they could send a message to.. oh maybe Lando and see if the Cloud City archives had what they were looking for - which I am assuming he could then transmit to them the same way the spies sent the DeathStar plans.

Well played sir. That's the second time I've ever seen "parthenogenesis" used in the wild!

hah, one of my favourite bands at the time...until they went all KC and betrayed us all

There is no internet. At least not in the way we see it. It would appear you can't hack into the the imperial pentagon with out going there and plugging into their local network. The reason people keep saying there is no internet is because players want to use it the way we do now, And all evidence says no that is not the way the holonet is. The holonet behaves more like cable/satellite tv. and email/phone system. and possibly you can fax things. And those who hack the holonet seem to use it like a pirate radio station.

For example in an episode of the clone wars Padme steals a data card with plans for a droid factory. Did she email those plans? no she physically took the data card took it to her ship and flew the data to coruscant. In rebels when they wanted to do their pirate broadcast. They went to the facility and inserted a data spike that allowed then to make their broadcast to the sector from their ship.

You'd have to do the same things today. Just because we have "the internet" doesn't mean you can hack a bank or CNN from your desktop. Everything significant requires being on site.

It sounds to me like people are conflating the "Shadowrun/cyberpunk" view of the 'net with what we have today, so if someone says "the Star Wars universe has an internet" they think "Shadowrun". We have nothing of the sort, and neither, as far as I can tell, does the Star Wars universe.

There is no internet. At least not in the way we see it. It would appear you can't hack into the the imperial pentagon with out going there and plugging into their local network. The reason people keep saying there is no internet is because players want to use it the way we do now, And all evidence says no that is not the way the holonet is. The holonet behaves more like cable/satellite tv. and email/phone system. and possibly you can fax things. And those who hack the holonet seem to use it like a pirate radio station.

For example in an episode of the clone wars Padme steals a data card with plans for a droid factory. Did she email those plans? no she physically took the data card took it to her ship and flew the data to coruscant. In rebels when they wanted to do their pirate broadcast. They went to the facility and inserted a data spike that allowed then to make their broadcast to the sector from their ship.

Looking at the movies and the two animated series, I think we see evidence that can be used as backing for several points of view on the exact details.

This is largely because the people writing the movies/series are just putting whatever serves the story at that moment up on the screen, without any thought for what could be inferred from it, how it interacts with other scenes in other movies or episodes, or how the technical details might work or interact or conflict. (Side note -- this is why worldbuilding matters...)

So we see real-time holographic communication between two ships in hyperspace one episode, and characters who have to sneak a handful of files across half the galaxy by hand in another episode. Sending real-time 3d holographic takes a lot more bandwidth than sending some 2d line drawings and text files compressed and spread out over a few minutes -- so why is the first possible and the second not?

Even 2d 1080p video takes 7+ Mbps... and data is data. Objectively, once you can send a live holocommunication signal to another ship in hyperspace, you can send any digital file the same way.

You'd have to do the same things today. Just because we have "the internet" doesn't mean you can hack a bank or CNN from your desktop. Everything significant requires being on site.

It sounds to me like people are conflating the "Shadowrun/cyberpunk" view of the 'net with what we have today, so if someone says "the Star Wars universe has an internet" they think "Shadowrun". We have nothing of the sort, and neither, as far as I can tell, does the Star Wars universe.

So true...

Even 2d 1080p video takes 7+ Mbps... and data is data. Objectively, once you can send a live holocommunication signal to another ship in hyperspace, you can send any digital file the same way.

Just because you CAN do something does not necessarily mean that you SHOULD.

In this case, in my version of the Universe, the Empire has AI programs that autonomously monitor all holonet communications, and woe betide anyone who tries to use that network for any other purpose.

If you’re the greatest hacker in the galaxy, maybe you can get away with it for a while, but if you try to do that too often, then even you will get caught. And then a whole fleet of Star Destroyers show up on your doorstep and really ruin your day.

The Empire tolerates the Hutts and the Corporate Sector having their own private replicas of the holonet that they run in certain areas, but more often than not those private holonets are also being monitored.

The question is whether or not you can use cryptographic, steganographic, encoding, and other techniques to hide your real traffic in and amongst the “noise” that the Imps don’t spot it, and even if they do spot it they can’t make heads or tails out of it or tell where it’s coming from or going to.

Now, on that Imperial holonet, sure you can get near real-time broadcasts of sporting events. Only delayed by a few milliseconds, which is long enough for the Empire to do what they want with that feed if and when they want to. They could even front-run bets on that feed, either officially or unofficially, and if done correctly then there wouldn’t be any way that the bookies could detect the shady activity.

If religion used to be the opiate of the masses, then today I would say that sports is one of the big opioid replacements. And I don’t see any material difference in this regard between our world and the Star Wars galaxy.

It would be in the best interest of the Empire to keep those peasants mollified and sedated.

At least, that’s how I see it for my version of the Star Wars universe. Your mileage may vary.

My point wasn't whether something exists or not in the setting -- it was to spell out the inherent contradictions in what is shown to us on the screen by writers, SFX people, and animators who haven't done enough "homework" to understand what's implied by what they're showing us.

My point wasn't whether something exists or not in the setting -- it was to spell out the inherent contradictions in what is shown to us on the screen by writers, SFX people, and animators who haven't done enough "homework" to understand what's implied by what they're showing us.

There’s only so much that the Keepers of the Holocron can do to fix things that have already been done.

You'd have to do the same things today. Just because we have "the internet" doesn't mean you can hack a bank or CNN from your desktop. Everything significant requires being on site.

I'm pretty sure Target, Sony, and quite a few others might beg to differ. Not to say its as easy as typing "\hack" or anything, but if it's connected, it CAN be accessed with enough patience and intelligence. Security comes from making it difficult enough to not be worth the right someone's time. I'm not really looking to start an argument here, but if a machine is networked to the outside world, it can be a target. (It might be an exceptionally DIFFICULT target, but still.)

Others have already commented on the risk of slicing top-security remote systems via the holonet. However, if you want to have the holonet behave more like the internet, just be careful about those slicers who want to use computers where Knowledge skills would be more applicable.

In the end, you simply don't want Computers to replace or deemphasise a handful of skills.