It will be easier to go through the process of why I built my list the way I did to show you why they can be viable. Now as a side note, I have tried several variations and even have a BDA video on my Vader Duet on Armada Tactics News.

The first step was me going over wanting to use Commander Vader along with Imperial Star Destroyers. I knew I had to have a small squadron compliment to make this work properly.

The list is simple.

Vader Duet
Author: Lyraeus

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 397/400

Commander: Darth Vader

Assault Objective: Precision Strike
Defense Objective: Fire Lanes
Navigation Objective: Intel Sweep

[ flagship ] Imperial II-Class Star Destroyer (120 points)
- Darth Vader ( 36 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Electronic Countermeasures ( 7 points)
- XI7 Turbolasers ( 6 points)

Imperial II-Class Star Destroyer (120 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Electronic Countermeasures ( 7 points)
- XI7 Turbolasers ( 6 points)

1 "Mauler" Mithel ( 15 points)
1 TIE Advanced Squadron ( 12 points)
1 Major Rhymer ( 16 points)
1 Firespray-31 ( 18 points)
1 Dengar ( 20 points)

Fleet created with Armada Warlords

Now the objectives are important and I have changed the Blue one to Intel Sweep from Superior Positions. The squadron compliment is there to harass and destroy opponent squadron wings (and is AMAZING at it)

I have found that THE most important thing in this list is speed control. When you face smaller ships speed 1 is your best friend with navigate commands. Since both ships have amazing medium range you can preemptively get into an intercept position that does not leave you too exposed and use gunnery teams to full effect. Thankfully Vader at long range still helps you get 4 damage on average. At medium range Vader gets an average of 8 damage with that accuracy which is enough to punish any small ship or even a medium ship.

The build does rely on Xi7's and gunnery teams so those who try it without will have far different results.

I have no issue with viability of 2 ship lists, right now they work well enough, what I have noticed in my play area is they aren't working and are regularly taking a beating.

I do like your list above and have flown a similar list.

I guess it's "a meta" thing depending on where you play.

It will come down to expectations and experience.

How was squadron representation? Anyone dare to take the "few to none" route?

I went to two tournaments with a 0 squadron list.

For the first tournament I brought 2 MC30s with ACM and Ordnance Teams + titles, 3 CR 90's with Engine Techs, Jaina's Light + Ackbar, Tantive IV + Raymus, and 2 TRCs. Using the Long Range variant for both ship types. It was an extremely squadron heavy meta. I lost all 3 games but it was more to do with my own skill at maneuvers than a lack of squadrons. I've gotten a lot better at piloting my ships.

For the second I ran the same list excep I downgraded one MC30 to the torpedo variant and added Lando and Wallex to the MC30s. I'd had a lot of chances to practice my maneuvers so I tore people up. I ended up losing game 3 pretty badly to a 3 Naked ISD + Motti list, but that was again down to player skill. I made a pretty huge mistake turn 0 that punished me hard.

In my experience you can make up for a lack of squadrons by flying extremely fast ships and piloting them well. My list throws out so much damage my goal is to cripple your squadron activations and then leave your squadrons in the dust.

That being said, I think I'm going to downgrade the entire fleet to the cheaper medium range variants, ditch the TRCs and add in 3 Awings just to snarl bombers for a few turns. I had some problems with a Rhymer Ball in game 1 that could have been devastating if the Admiral was more experienced.

Seatbelt - well said. I've had the exact same experience: if you want to go no squadrons, you need to have fast ships. I routinely fly my CR90 list with no / few squadrons, and the only thing that gives me any heartburn at all is a really well flown Rhymerball. With anything else, it's too slow or too limited in range to get to pick the engagements with me, so I don't care.

Once you go beyond speed 3, the squadron game changes. Only A-Wings really keep up with you at that point, and only the Rhymerball has the range to chase you. Speed 3 itself is good but not great, though I have seen a no-squadron list around here that was all Neb B escorts. That seemed to work well also, but only because the anti-squad firepower off that list is so withering that eating 8+ blue dice per turn into every single squadron in the wide Neb B side arcs lead to the list eating an entire rhymerball in two turns of shooting and then running off with MoV well in hand.

How was squadron representation? Anyone dare to take the "few to none" route?

I think Naboobo2000 had no squadrons but other than that I think 40 points was the second lowest in squadrons

I see that 3+ ships will become more meta than not because it's one of the strategies that are easy to implement to gain an advantage, especially for the newer players. I would say the same for the fireball recipe. These strategies can be duplicated by the novices to good effect. While they might not win a tournament against a highly skilled opponent, it will potentially get them to a second round.

I need to make a trip to Portland just to play you, Lyraeus. It would be interesting.

He's an excellent teacher. Twice now he's kicked my butt, and both times I went on a winning streak afterwards

I agree about few to no squads--you can get away with it if you have only small ships but a decent screen should be a necessity if you have a large target. It's not a huge loss if the enemy swarms your corvette--probably the equivalent of losing a token screen, squad-wise, and you've tied them down for a few turns so the rest of your fleet is safe. If you have one or two big targets though it's a different story. Last night I ran 5 small ships with only an a-wing for emergency engagements, and Han and a 2400 to act as bomber support (also available for emergencies). Han was more than worth the points--the last turn he saved a frigate surrounded by 6 squads by jumping in at the start of the turn.

The thing I like most about others fielding 4-5 ships is that I have more targets to destroy... Mwah hahahaha...

FYI, I ran for squadrons:

Howlrunner

Tie Interceptor

2 x Tie fighters

My fleet is posted under A Real Empire Fleet under the fleet thread.

I need to make a trip to Portland just to play you, Lyraeus. It would be interesting.

He's an excellent teacher. Twice now he's kicked my butt, and both times I went on a winning streak afterwards

FYI, I ran for squadrons:

Howlrunner

Tie Interceptor

2 x Tie fighters

My fleet is posted under A Real Empire Fleet under the fleet thread.

I still think my Vader Duet has life in it for another tournament

This is what I am flying in my league game this Friday. We'll see how she goes....

I am still evolving my ISD list, I started at 3 of them and learned a great deal about them, mostly through losing :-)

Now I'm going for two with upgrades and escorts.

I'm cycling through to find a list I really like before I invest serious effort in painting.

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 400/400

Commander: Darth Vader

Assault Objective: Advanced Gunnery
Defense Objective: Fire Lanes or Contested Outpost
Navigation Objective: Dangerous Territory or Minefields

Imperial II-Class Star Destroyer (120 points)
- Intel Officer ( 7 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Electronic Countermeasures ( 7 points)
- XI7 Turbolasers ( 6 points)

[ flagship ] Imperial II-Class Star Destroyer (120 points)
- Darth Vader ( 36 points)
- Intel Officer ( 7 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Electronic Countermeasures ( 7 points)
- XI7 Turbolasers ( 6 points)

1 "Howlrunner" ( 16 points)
1 TIE Advanced Squadron ( 12 points)
2 TIE Interceptor Squadrons ( 22 points)
1 Dengar ( 20 points)

I need to make a trip to Portland just to play you, Lyraeus. It would be interesting.

He's an excellent teacher. Twice now he's kicked my butt, and both times I went on a winning streak afterwards

Best way to teach. . . Make many many mistakes and experience many situations

Perhaps I'll be the one teaching him a thing or two....lol!

I'm in the middle of moving south, but intend to get active. Look for some reports from Florida in the future!

I need to make a trip to Portland just to play you, Lyraeus. It would be interesting.

He's an excellent teacher. Twice now he's kicked my butt, and both times I went on a winning streak afterwards

Best way to teach. . . Make many many mistakes and experience many situations

Perhaps I'll be the one teaching him a thing or two....lol!

I'm in the middle of moving south, but intend to get active. Look for some reports from Florida in the future!