Had some questions come up from Armada Store Tournament yesterday:

1. How much flexibility does a ship have in determining when to resolve its command?

In one of my games, the scenario was "minefields" and my opponent deployed an MC-80 near a mine token, but at speed 2. His first command was engineering, thinking he might need it to repair damage resulting from the minefield. When he activated, he chose the command dial (instead of the token). I questioned if he needed to use those engineering points at that moment (when he had no hull or shield damage), or if he could wait until after he moved (and possibly took damage from mines), at which point his activation would be finished, and he would have wasted his engineering command.

In the end, I gave him the benefit of the doubt. He missed the mine by a country mile, resulting in no damage, and because he had not elected the engineering token, he simply wasted the command.

2. Is there anything else to check for besided range, los, and arc when executing an attack?

Against the same opponent, a situation arose where my Vic 1 had fore and starboard shots on his MC80. My fore could choose to fire on his fore or starboard, and my starboard only had guns on his fore. My fore shot was uncontested. I then checked my starboard range (close), los (unobstructed) and arc (good) to his fore, and declared a shot. He then attempted to argue that the shot was not legal referencing something he had seen in a FAQ or Errata. I asked him to produce a ruling, as these are the only 3 conditions I knew/know of that need to be met for a legal shot. He looked for about 5 minutes (along with another observer who was also checking his iphone for such a ruling) Is there another condition that must be met that I am unaware of?

3. Do speed dials need to be deployed face up?

The same opponent argued that speed dials for ships did not need to be deployed face-up. Upon a quick inspection of Rule and Quick Reference, I could not find anything specifically stating that Speed Dials needed to be deployed face-up (although I could have sworn the first time I read the rules that dials were always placed showing). To keep things moving and to keep good-will, I agreed that for this game we would deploy speed dials face down. It had negligible impact on the game, but I was just wondering if I could get an officail ruling.

4. What's the most recent copy of FAQ/Errata?

I hate trying to hunt that crap down.

1)

Very very little. The command is Revealed. If it is a Repair or a Squadron, it must be Selected as a Dial and Resolved immediately , or taken as a Token.

The Time to resolve those two commands is right then , and not elsewhere. The best bet if you're worreid about taking damage, is to bank the Token and hope you have a second engineering next turn to combine them.

2) This one gets me when I try to spell it all out.

You need to be able to draw LOS from Your Yellow to His Yellow - this will tell you if it is Obstructed or not.
Then you need to measure Range from The closest point of your Arc to the Closest point of his hull that is in your arc to get the range.

Really, that's it. Without knowing the exact situation, its impossible to tell. But I'm likely to say you had everything under control.

You cannot shoot from the same hull zone twice, but you can certainly shoot from Two Different Hull Zones into One Hull Zone...

3) The Dials are face up in the Learning to Play guide, and are otherwise not referenced in the Rulebook as Up or Down . This leads logic to dictate, that, in the absense of a rule that states they may be face down, they should be face up as shown .

There was a Thread last week here about this, so this may be where he's being tricky about it.

4)

Above the Forums:

- Products

- Star Wars Armada

- Support (tab)

- FAQ

Leads you to this link:

https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/d4/ee/d4eef29c-0edb-4e7c-bddb-cba5f3e80eb1/armada_faq_v2.pdf

However, that link will change when updated, to follow the Products->FAQ Flowchart

1. Virtually none. Commands are resolved at the appropriate point in the turn as laid out in the RRG pg 3-4 under "Commands." The order is (Repair/Squadrons) in either order immediately after revealing your dial, then CF during the "Modify Dice" step of your attack, then Navigate during your "Determine Course" step of your movement. There is no flexibility in the resolution order.

2. Sorry, I barely understand the weird ruling they made on this one so I'm not going to try to explain it, but yes, there is an edge case where you could have range, arc, and LoS but not have the shot. FAQ 2.0 pg 2:

Measuring Firing Arc and Range, p.7

This entry should include the following paragraph:

“If attack range is measured through a hull zone on the defender

that is not the defending hull zone, the attacker does not have

line of sight and must choose another target.”

3. Yes, they have to be deployed face up. There was a long silly conversation on here a week or two ago if you want to look it up, but it basically amounted to one guy saying he didn't have to and everybody else telling him he was being ridiculous. Look at the deployment diagram in the Learn To Play guide, they're face up there.

4. Current version is 2.0. They keep the most up to date ones, along with tournament rules, the RRG, etc, on the Armada product page here: https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/products/star-wars-armada/ . You can get there by going to the main FFG site and drilling down to the Armada page a couple of links deep.

Edit: Goddammit Dras.

Edit: Goddammit Dras.

Dude, I got to play a Game on a Twitch Livestream, then Commentate on another Game on said stream, and then come home and Ninja someone...

This has been a **** good day

Here is a pictographic of the engagement.

My contention would be that the Vic's fore can fire upon either the fore or starboard of MC80, and that the Vic starboard can fire upon MC80 fore. (all at close range)

Also, thanks to both of you for your speedy replies.

It should also be noted that the game was not antagonistic at all, and my opponent was a fine player. I think he generally thought he had read a ruling somewhere regarding the attack restrictions (I don't believe he was trying to troll me).

Here is a pictographic of the engagement.

My contention would be that the Vic's fore can fire upon either the fore or starboard of MC80, and that the Vic starboard can fire upon MC80 fore. (all at close range)

Also, thanks to both of you for your speedy replies.

It should also be noted that the game was not antagonistic at all, and my opponent was a fine player. I think he generally thought he had read a ruling somewhere regarding the attack restrictions (I don't believe he was trying to troll me).

Yes, absolutely no issues with that.

THe LOS of the Side shot to the rear is clear as determined.

And there is a part of that Arc that is in range and in arc without crossing another hull zone on the opponent...

And you are (just barely) at Medium Range, measuring with the closest part that is in arc.

...

And you are (just barely) at Medium Range, measuring with the closest part that is in arc.

was that a typo? Did you mean close range? I thought range was measured from plastic to plastic (not including the shield dials).

I would have thought this was a close range shot.

It was a Typoo, however -

Range is measured from Hull Zone to Hull Zone, which is Cardboard to Cardboard .

It was a Typoo, however -

Range is measured from Hull Zone to Hull Zone, which is Cardboard to Cardboard .

Dras, I don't mean to sound contentious, but can you support this in the rules? My understanding of a "ship", per the Rules definition, is that it is a fully assembled model that includes the ship model itself (ie, the toy), pegs or fins (the support column), the base , and ship token (the cardboard piece that sits in the base).

All attacks originate from "the ship" (from the hull zone , as it were, but from the hull zone "of the ship"). This would seem to indicate to me that it includes the plastic base. I know the base is included when determining things like overlapping and such.

Dras, disregard the above post. I investigated the rules explicitly and I see your definitions are correct, and I found the specific place in the Rules Reference where it differentiates between a hull zone and the ship's base itself.

Your argument is accepted.

Easy

(Italic/Underline Emphasis mine)

Page 6, RRG:

Hull Zones

A hull zone is a section of a ship token delineated by the two firing arc lines that border it. It does not include any part of the plastic base .

Page 7, RRG:

MEASURING FIRE ARC AND RANGE:

To measure attack range from a ship, measure from the closest point of the attacking hull zone . To measure attack range to a ship, measure to the closest point of the defending hull zone . To measure attack range to or from a squadron, measure to or from the closest point of the squadron’s base.

Fire Arc and Range only refers the distance FROM Hull Zone TO Hull Zone.

Yes, the Ship does include everything - but essentially... If it is an Attack , then it measures from Cardboard to Cardboard, because that is the Hull Zone.

If it is not an attack, such as Tractor Beams, then it measures from Ship to Ship .

I can't say that I believe that should not be consistent between the two... But its not, and its something we live with as an inconsistent, but still a truth, of the rules...

EDIT: D'oh, I think I sit submit a half-second after your post, It didn't give me the new post notification while I was typing

And its never any big deal - I do try to be straightforward with the rules, and as you correctly pointed out , I still made a Typo Mistake as well, and never mind being proved wrong

Easy

....

I can't say that I believe that should not be consistent between the two... But its not, and its something we live with as an inconsistent, but still a truth, of the rules...

EDIT: D'oh, I think I sit submit a half-second after your post, It didn't give me the new post notification while I was typing

And its never any big deal - I do try to be straightforward with the rules, and as you correctly pointed out , I still made a Typo Mistake as well, and never mind being proved wrong

No, believe me, I agree 100%. When I was discussing the speed dial issue with my opponenet, I essentially affected the same position. "I'm not saying I like it, or its the best, or that I think it wouldn't be fun to play with speed dials kept secret...but those are the rules. I did not make them, Alex Davy did. Your options are to petition him to change it, or play Drop Zone Fleet Commander. Don't get mad at me for playing by the rules as best I understand them :-)"

I've become quite anal about #1

People abuse it too much, especially the concentrate fire and Nav because those 2 are often resolved later in the stack.

Too many times people decide that "they didn't need to use the nav after all" so they take the token at the navigate step (can't do this) or decide they didn't need to roll an extra die after all and take the CF token (also can't do this)

The rules are exceedingly clear: you reveal the dial and then either use it or decide to take the token THERE AND THEN. You are free to use a token taken at the command reveal stage later in your activation, but that is (obviously) limited to nav and CF tokens. Engineering and squad tokens must be used first.

#3 you would have to be a tool about to hide speed dials. If I ever had someone hide speed dials on me I would insist on keeping a written record of the speed of every one of his ships.

I've become quite anal about #1

People abuse it too much, especially the concentrate fire and Nav because those 2 are often resolved later in the stack.

Too many times people decide that "they didn't need to use the nav after all" so they take the token at the navigate step (can't do this) or decide they didn't need to roll an extra die after all and take the CF token (also can't do this)

The rules are exceedingly clear: you reveal the dial and then either use it or decide to take the token THERE AND THEN. You are free to use a token taken at the command reveal stage later in your activation, but that is (obviously) limited to nav and CF tokens. Engineering and squad tokens must be used first.

#3 you would have to be a tool about to hide speed dials. If I ever had someone hide speed dials on me I would insist on keeping a written record of the speed of every one of his ships.

Hey Hast:

1. To be fair, he didn't abuse what you are talking about, above, though. (The dial vs. token timing issue). His question / argument was, in committing to the dial itself, when did he have to use those engineering points? (ie, could he use them at any point in his activation, or did he need to use them immediately upon claiming the command dial (as opposed to the token).

3. Also, to be fair, he didn't ask to have his speed dial hidden for the entirety of the game, only at the point of actually deploying his ship during setup. After he revealed it, he did not attempt to hide it again (ie, flip it over).

I've become quite anal about #1

People abuse it too much, especially the concentrate fire and Nav because those 2 are often resolved later in the stack.

Too many times people decide that "they didn't need to use the nav after all" so they take the token at the navigate step (can't do this) or decide they didn't need to roll an extra die after all and take the CF token (also can't do this)

The rules are exceedingly clear: you reveal the dial and then either use it or decide to take the token THERE AND THEN. You are free to use a token taken at the command reveal stage later in your activation, but that is (obviously) limited to nav and CF tokens. Engineering and squad tokens must be used first.

#3 you would have to be a tool about to hide speed dials. If I ever had someone hide speed dials on me I would insist on keeping a written record of the speed of every one of his ships.

Hey Hast:

1. To be fair, he didn't abuse what you are talking about, above, though. (The dial vs. token timing issue). His question / argument was, in committing to the dial itself, when did he have to use those engineering points? (ie, could he use them at any point in his activation, or did he need to use them immediately upon claiming the command dial (as opposed to the token).

3. Also, to be fair, he didn't ask to have his speed dial hidden for the entirety of the game, only at the point of actually deploying his ship during setup. After he revealed it, he did not attempt to hide it again (ie, flip it over).

Fair enough. I think #1 has been made pretty clear by other posters in that you have to use the points right away

As for #3 I would still have a very big issue with not seeing the initial set speed of a ship. Frankly the only reason I can think of to conceal it is to either give the opportunity for shenanigans or to try to give yourself an information advantage.

In a competitive setting I would simply not trust someone to be true to what they set their initial dial to. Maybe that's just me, but it would be too easy to F with and too tempting if your initial speed was a mistake. If you also refuse to declare your initial speed but your opponent declared them you actually get a significant advantage.

I've become quite anal about #1

People abuse it too much, especially the concentrate fire and Nav because those 2 are often resolved later in the stack.

Too many times people decide that "they didn't need to use the nav after all" so they take the token at the navigate step (can't do this) or decide they didn't need to roll an extra die after all and take the CF token (also can't do this)

The rules are exceedingly clear: you reveal the dial and then either use it or decide to take the token THERE AND THEN. You are free to use a token taken at the command reveal stage later in your activation, but that is (obviously) limited to nav and CF tokens. Engineering and squad tokens must be used first.

#3 you would have to be a tool about to hide speed dials. If I ever had someone hide speed dials on me I would insist on keeping a written record of the speed of every one of his ships.

No one gets why I am always enforcing the Modify rule!!! It is because improper use of the Modify rule leads to sloppy play and then when a player is supposed to do things in order they mess it up and then issues ensue and it is a big mess. It is the same way with the commands and their timing.

I really don't like when people are like, "well I roll 4 red dice and I am using Ackbar so there is another 2 dice, so I am rolling 6 dice at once". It is like they have no respect for the variables that come with rolling dice. . .

Hast:

Fair enough; I hadn't even considered the "F" with it shenanigans.

Lyr:

What am I missing in the nuance of your example? If you have 4 red broadsides and you have Ackbar, why wouldn't you roll 6 dice all at once?

Hast:

Fair enough; I hadn't even considered the "F" with it shenanigans.

Lyr:

What am I missing in the nuance of your example? If you have 4 red broadsides and you have Ackbar, why wouldn't you roll 6 dice all at once?

Because the timing of Ackbar is "add to your attack pool," which comes in the "modify dice step" of an attack.

This meshes with the Concentrate Fire Command (dial and token) as well. If you have both CF Dial and Token, then you cannot immediately go, "I'm going to CF Dial, rolling a total of 4 red dice" and then after you have rolled your dice, decide that you need to spend the token, too. You must declare spending of both dial and token at the same time.

This also shuts down CR-90 Corvettes taking Obstructed Shots out their side arcs at Long Range - if the attack is Obstructed, then they have to lose a die before rolling their attack pool. This means that the attack is cancelled, and they don't get to add Ackbar and CF Dial dice.

Except with Ackbar you announce it before you roll...there is little point NOT rolling the extra two red.

Except with Ackbar you announce it before you roll...there is little point NOT rolling the extra two red.

If you announce it before you roll, and your only two attacks out the sides are both obstructed with a CR-90, congratulations - you just screwed yourself out of taking a front shot.

Agree with it or not, I believe the point being made is along the lines of:

"The rules are the rules, and you should follow the rules, because if you get sloppy with one part of the rules, you subconsciously encourage yourself to be sloppy with other parts of the rules...."

Agree with it or not, I don't have a ball in this park... But I think that's what's trying to be said.

But I think that's what's trying to be said.

I would agree, but I think it's a question of physically rolling the dice. With Ackbar (at least per the Warlords page) you declare him at the start of the attack phase. So that would happen before you even declare a target.

So daveddo's point as I read the rules anyway isn't true. You declare Ackbar before you do anything else so an attack from the front arc isn't an option in the first place, regardless of what you can do with the side arcs.

So since at that point, attacks out the side arc are the only ones you can make, assuming you can attack at all, why wouldn't you roll the two extra dice then and there?

I get and agree that you should do things the right way even if it takes a little longer though.

But I think that's what's trying to be said.

I would agree, but I think it's a question of physically rolling the dice. With Ackbar (at least per the Warlords page) you declare him at the start of the attack phase. So that would happen before you even declare a target.

So daveddo's point as I read the rules anyway isn't true. You declare Ackbar before you do anything else so an attack from the front arc isn't an option in the first place, regardless of what you can do with the side arcs.

So since at that point, attacks out the side arc are the only ones you can make, assuming you can attack at all, why wouldn't you roll the two extra dice then and there?

Simply because the rules are the rules, and dice aren't added to the pool until the dice modification step.

Ackbar is declared at the Start, yes -


But his dice are not added until the Modify Dice step.

Daveddos point is:

Imagine you have 3 targets available with a CR90 - one front, one left, one right...

You activate, and declare your use of Ackbar, expecting awesome slash shots.

However, you go to measure LOS on your long range portside shot and... ****, just barely obstructed.... Because you take your red die... then have to put it away, due to the obstruction.... You dont get to shoot at all from the portside...


Then you measure the Starbaord and.... Disaster! same thing...

And because you declared ackbar beforehand, you are not even able tyo take that clear front shot... dammit...