I am going to run twin Tie Defenders as my answer to the BroBots. Pilots are Rexler Brath and Colonel Vessery, both have Predator and HLC. I have two choices, either the Engine Upgrade or Twin Ion Engines and Advanced Homing Missile.
What is everyone opinion?
I am going to run twin Tie Defenders as my answer to the BroBots. Pilots are Rexler Brath and Colonel Vessery, both have Predator and HLC. I have two choices, either the Engine Upgrade or Twin Ion Engines and Advanced Homing Missile.
What is everyone opinion?
Personally, I'd go with the Engine Upgrade. Positioning could give you a definitive advantage over homing missiles. I do love the T.I.E.2. but the ability to boost is too great to ignore. Both are good options, but the former is the one I'd choose.
I'd consider putting TIE Mk2 on Rexler with PtL and VI on Vessery.
I'd consider putting TIE Mk2 on Rexler with PtL and VI on Vessery.
Please explain.
My opinion is if you try taking down Brobots with a Double Defender list before Imperial Veterans comes out you will lose 9 times out of 10 as long as they know what they are doing. You could very possibly lose one of your ships on the initial trading of fire more often than you might expect.
I'd consider putting TIE Mk2 on Rexler with PtL and VI on Vessery.
Please explain.
Veteran Instincts on Vessery makes him PS8, which is the same as Rexler. Rexler can PtL for a Target Lock and Focus. This gives him a Stress, however, which the Defender's dial greatly dislikes. With TIE MkII, it adds six additional green maneuvers to the Defender dial to shed the Stress.
Since Vessery and Rexler are at the same PS, Vessery can fire first to take advantage of Rexler's TL. This either strips tokens or does damage outright, but the bigger goal is to strip shields. When shields are gone, Rexler can now fire with a TL to modify his dice. Use the TL, hopefully put some hits through, then spend Rexler's Focus token to flip those cards face-up to dish out the punishment.
I have had some success with my dual Defenders against the dreaded bro-bots using this loadout.
Rexlar Brath
-PTL
-Mk II
-HLC
-Prockets
Vessary
-VI
-HLC
-Prockets
-MK II or Hull or Stealth
Both the above lists are OUCH. Can't wait to put them on the table!
As an added note, I honestly prefer Ion Pulse Missiles for one of the Defenders. I took second place with the following list,
Rexler Brath
- Predator
- Heavy Laser Cannon
- Hull Upgrade
Colonel Vessery
- Veteran Instincts
- Heavy Laser Cannon
- Ion Pulse Missiles
- Hull Upgrade
Rexler is getting at least one re-roll from Predator, so he doesn't need to worry about using his TL after the initial action for Vessery. Hull Upgrade makes the Defenders beefy, and the threat of two Ion tokens discourages large ships to engage a Defender head on. If you can land the Ion Pulse Missiles (which do not require you to spend the TL), you can really have your way with whatever gets ionized.
Obviously, things are going to change when Imperial Veterans is released. For now, though, this is a great way to kit out Double Defenders.
Yeah, Hull Upgrade and Ion Pulse Missiles are what you want.
Vessery's pilot ability means that you really ought never use Predator with him.
Brath likes Predator, as he prefers having Focus Tokens unspent after attacking, though Vessery wants him to TL at least once.
Now, onto the asked question. Is TIE mkII + a missile > Engine Upgrades?
Tie MKII greenifies a large segment of your dial, which has a red turning issue. It is helpful.
Advanced Homing Missiles are very interesting, but the fact that they're R2 means you're choosing between them and your HLC... and also assuming that you have a Target Lock.
Engine Upgrades are absolutely fascinating with the White Koiogran, and also make up for the maneuver deficiency quite handily.
However, I'd also consider another option. Ever seen the Jonus Brothers at work?
That is to say, Capt. Jonus, 2x Defenders with HLCs, and 4 points of your customization preference.
To DraconPyrothayan
I was looking to fire first really.
So how would this go against the Bros? It seems to me that after Jonus is gone than the defenders will soon follow.
Edited by devotedknightTo DraconPyrothayan
I was looking to fire first really.
So how would this go against the Bros? It seems to me that after Jonus is gone than the defenders will soon follow.
Well, Defenders are the only ship in the game that fly in the same pattern as the Aggressor (in an Engage/Disengage/Re-engage cycle), thanks to their red turns but white koiogran.
Meanwhile, with the Jonus Bonus, your defenders are hitting as hard as FCS aggressors, and harder than the variants that go with Predator instead.
Besides, even with your dial, you still have all the classic anti-aggressor options: Slow-roll into favorable obstructions, blocking, et c.
A Brobot is clearly going to target Jonus first, unless you give him an opportunistic kill on a defender.
However, Jonus is the fewest points in your fleet. Buff + Biggs, on a ship which A) Stymies IG-88B's ability, and B) requires more than one HLC hit to kill, and C) has a 5 koiogran, potentially acting as the most surprising blocker in the match-up.
Meanwhile, if you've mastered your Defenders as non-Aces, your opponent is in a very strange position; They're unlikely to be expecting a fight with a lower PS pilot. They're CERTAINLY unlikely to be expecting a fight with a lower PS pilot with an HLC and the Defender's Defenderness.
So.
1) You'll get an early damage advantage in with the Jonus Bonus.
2) You'll get more than one attack of theirs negated on Jonus' health bar.
3) You get to dictate where their attention lies, thanks to the Jonus Bonus. Use that.
4) After Jonus is dead, you're still flying 2x HLC Defenders vs 2x HLC Aggressors, which is a comparable match-up
5) After Jonus is dead, you're going to be existing in their uncomfortable zone with a Pilot Skill they've not had to consider
6) After Jonus is dead, you're going to have a dial they'll find difficult to play against
7) At the start of the match, you'll be able to dictate where the fight happens through the ability to fly slowly, or not.
8) At the start of the match, you'll be able to dictate where the fight happens, and have a much easier time with obstruction.
9) During activation, you'll be able to move with full knowledge of where the Aggressors already are
10) During activation, the Aggressors must account for every possibility of where you might wind up
11) During activation, you can block, or position so that their following maneuver will wind them up in the asteroids
12) During Combat, you'll have superior Focus tokens, as they must choose whether to use theirs for offense or defense without knowledge of where you will attack
Of course, this is theory-crafting. If Vessery and Brath's pilot abilities and elite talents are more valuable, definitely use them instead. And they well might be, honestly; quite a bit of that has hold-overs.
I'd consider putting TIE Mk2 on Rexler with PtL and VI on Vessery.
Please explain.
Veteran Instincts on Vessery makes him PS8, which is the same as Rexler. Rexler can PtL for a Target Lock and Focus. This gives him a Stress, however, which the Defender's dial greatly dislikes. With TIE MkII, it adds six additional green maneuvers to the Defender dial to shed the Stress.
Since Vessery and Rexler are at the same PS, Vessery can fire first to take advantage of Rexler's TL. This either strips tokens or does damage outright, but the bigger goal is to strip shields. When shields are gone, Rexler can now fire with a TL to modify his dice. Use the TL, hopefully put some hits through, then spend Rexler's Focus token to flip those cards face-up to dish out the punishment.
This is it exactly. It has the added benefit of putting both of your pilots ahead of IG-88s' 6 PS, or matching their 8 if they took VI.
Vessery needs vi so rexler can use the TL, predator is wasted on vessery.
mk.ii on rexler with ptl instead of predator lets you use your TL for modification and focus for his ability and you have ten green moves to shed stress.
Just my opinion.
My opinion is if you try taking down Brobots with a Double Defender list before Imperial Veterans comes out you will lose 9 times out of 10 as long as they know what they are doing. You could very possibly lose one of your ships on the initial trading of fire more often than you might expect.
actually, brobots are a match-up defenders are okay atm, too.
@OP
like others have mentioned, hull+ion pulse. ESPECIALLY the ions if the bots are the thing you try hardest to beat.
brobots live and die by their movement options and how the player uses these, IMHO.
having the IPM puts a BIG dent into that. no need to fire them, just that the other guy remembers you -have- them.
)
Those are damnedly expensive. wow. I'm gonna be happier when the fix is legal. Until then, imma get my fix on the side.
Those are damnedly expensive. wow. I'm gonna be happier when the fix is legal. Until then, imma get my fix on the side.
Well, if you're running Double Defenders, they better be expensive, or you'll be bringing in a really big initiative bid.
Having played against Kenkirk with rebel captive, I will never fly my defenders without mk.2 engine. Came down to Vessery with 2 shields missing and an untouched rexler vs full health kenkirk, still just barely won with one hull left on rexler. Without mk2 engine I would not have been able to keep arc on kenkirk and still dump the stress to take the focus actions that kept my health/damage up.
Well, if you're running Double Defenders, they better be expensive, or you'll be bringing in a really big initiative bid.
I'm still sad that the HLC Defender, and therefore the double defender build in general, is getting left in the cold with the new expansion. It's my dream to fly double defenders with the same effectiveness that Brobots enjoy as a 2-ship build, but it doesn't look like that will be happening.
Rexler Brath — TIE Defender 37
Push the Limit 3
Ion Cannon 3
Twin Ion Engine Mk. II 1
TIE/D 0
Ship Total: 44
Colonel Vessery — TIE Defender 35
Veteran Instincts 1
Tractor Beam 1
TIE/D 0
Ship Total: 37
Scimitar Squadron Pilot — TIE Bomber 16
Fleet Officer 3
TIE Shuttle 0
Ship Total: 19
No longer a DD list but it hits incredibly hard, I can see it being my go to list against most things.
Rexler Brath — TIE Defender 37
Push the Limit 3
Ion Cannon 3
Twin Ion Engine Mk. II 1
TIE/D 0
Ship Total: 44
Colonel Vessery — TIE Defender 35
Veteran Instincts 1
Tractor Beam 1
TIE/D 0
Ship Total: 37
Scimitar Squadron Pilot — TIE Bomber 16
Fleet Officer 3
TIE Shuttle 0
Ship Total: 19
No longer a DD list but it hits incredibly hard, I can see it being my go to list against most things.
nice list!
though it takes the fun out of "flying the D, now (as it's still cool and not touched by peasants *elitist sigh* )"
**joking of course on the elitist part, just to be very clear
Well, if you're running Double Defenders, they better be expensive, or you'll be bringing in a really big initiative bid.
I'm still sad that the HLC Defender, and therefore the double defender build in general, is getting left in the cold with the new expansion. It's my dream to fly double defenders with the same effectiveness that Brobots enjoy as a 2-ship build, but it doesn't look like that will be happening.
The Ion Cannon Defender does, on average, pretty similar damage to the HLC against most targets. The HLC us better against very well defended stuff at long range, and the Ion Cannon is substantially better agains tax low AGI stuff, and has control. I think the IC/D slots pretty well in a Double Defender list. I'm not sure yet whether I would take two Ion Cannons or one IC, one HLC, but I think two Defenders has only gotten better.
If Attani Mindlink is what we think it is, I'm totally running Vessery with x7, EU and Attani mindlink, a black squadron with attani mindlink, (to give the defender a second evade or focus each round) and Jendon's ST321 Palpshuttle.
Vessery, Master of the Universse