How do you make this ship worth playing? It can't run ECMs, it has black dice but can't take ordinance upgrades, it can't take a support team, so you can't use engine techs to bring it in range to make those black dice more useful. Running Screed isn't even that useful because you only have 3 black dice in the front arc. It just seems like a huge liability. I have never seen one on the table. Seems like it should have been cheaper. The only thing I could see being even possibly effective is to plow towards the enemy at top speed and try to throw as many dice as you can before it dies (which could happen pretty fast without ECMs). It might be the worst ship in the game, but at least it's faster than a VSD I. Does anyone prefer it over the ISD II?

With two offensive upgrades for Boosted Comms and Expanded Hangar Bay, and a weapon team slot for Flight Controllers, it can be a ludicrously effective carrier, especially with Grand Moff Tarkin or Wulff Yularen. Six squadron activations a turn, with extra blue dice. Throw Admiral Chireneau on there... ew.

Can't believe that didn't put a defensive retrofit on the darn thing. No EMCs make taking th thing impractical. I would otherwise as a great boosted coms expanded hanger bay option. Baffles me they did that.

Just missing at one single thing and it would be a viable option. Just too many points to not be able to brace.

With two offensive upgrades for Boosted Comms and Expanded Hangar Bay, and a weapon team slot for Flight Controllers, it can be a ludicrously effective carrier, especially with Grand Moff Tarkin or Wulff Yularen. Six squadron activations a turn, with extra blue dice. Throw Admiral Chireneau on there... ew.

Without EMCs with X-17 so popular you'll rule the fighter battle to only lose the war.

The funny thing to me is, if it doesn't have a defensive upgrade slot what are those two giant domes on top of it? They are the freaking picture for defensive upgrade slots.

Another option is tractor beams, leading shots / Vader. Season to taste. Super VSD murder potential, but speed 3.

As a follow-up, a single ISD-1 with Boosted Comms, Expanded Hangar Bay, Wulff Yularen and Flight Controllers Comes to a grand total of 132 points, or... Exactly 14 points less than two naked VSDs, which can also not take ECMs. That gives you a faster, more agile carrier with more utility, although admittedly it can put out slightly less dice from its front arc. Of course, drop Flight Controllers in favour of Gunnery Team, and you have a ship that is faster and more agile than two VSDs AND has equivalent firepower at long range, all for 13 points less.

Don't run an ISD1 - Run TWO ISD1s!!

The carrier variant is the usual role.

The ISD1s competitive advantage is its cheapness and black dice, compared to the ISD2.

The ISD2 basically begs to be made into a "queen of the battlefield" with gunnery teams, ECMs, Xi7s, Intel and a title. Sure, this is an extremely formidable ship that can burn down entire fleets on its own, but its around 150 points. ISD2 also draws a lot of benefit from Vader.

Wheras the ISD1 doesn't benefit from loading it up anywhere near as much. I've had great success running two with leading shots only, commanded by Ozzell.

You can still afford a diverse fleet and a strong bid for first turn. One ISD1 can beat anything other than an MC80 or opposing ISD2. So if you are facing one of these, charge both of them in - once you are dual arcing both ISDs (pretty feasible with Ozzell and initiative) you are firing 10 reds, 4 blues, and 10 blacks, a lot with rerolls. Happy times.

With two offensive upgrades for Boosted Comms and Expanded Hangar Bay, and a weapon team slot for Flight Controllers, it can be a ludicrously effective carrier, especially with Grand Moff Tarkin or Wulff Yularen. Six squadron activations a turn, with extra blue dice. Throw Admiral Chireneau on there... ew.

Without EMCs with X-17 so popular you'll rule the fighter battle to only lose the war.

I personally don't rate the ISD-1, but in fairness, being able to activate six squadrons a turn - let's say Major Rhymer and five accompanying TIE Bombers - means you'll have a good shot at winning the war, too. Cover the bombers with some TIE Advanceds, hold the ISD back and out-of-range (because it can activate the fighters' medium range attack at long range) and you might not have need of Electronic Countermeasures at all.

Its a Battle Carrier. With expanded hangerbays and boosted comms, plus flight controllers it can really dominate the squadron phase. With a dial and token that is 6 squadrons activated at once. And it makes the whole "just kill the carrier" tactic a tough affair, because its a fraking ISD.

Also, run gunnery teams instead of flight controllers and ram it down the throat of any Ackbar conga lines you come across

Not being an ISD-II. That's what its good for.

Even with ECMs... An ISD-II won't last long against the most killy ships - which pack Intel Officer and XI-7s...

SO if I'm going to die in 2 hits, screw putting more points into it, I'll run cheaper and survive longer by not attracting attention.

My ISD-I is rarely my Admiral's Boat - he's usually on a smaller Victory in the back line, throwing Bombers...

Survive through Obsolescence!

I've got two thoughts about the ISD-I beyond the carrier build: one for now, one for tomorrow.

Point the first (now point): The biggest complaint is that it doesn't have a defensive retrofit slot. Well, as the old adage says, the best defense is a good offense. The ISD-I blows. kids. up. at close range, especially if you have Vader in your list. What are ship are you saving that ECM for? An MC80 or an ISD-II? Blow it up before it blows you up. Done. Charge in at speed three. Kaboom kabang kabizzle. That sounds overly simple, but it works. People usually don't expect to see it flown that way, and they tend to react poorly to it. Just make sure you don't put your commander on there. This is a ship that will likely be dead by the end of the battle, and that's ok. It just needs to take ships down with it, and by god, it's incredibly good at doing just that.

Point the second (tomorrow point): I don't think offensive retrofits have come into their own yet. There's no ECM equivalent for offensive. Hanger Bays and Comms are great if you want to run a carrier, but that's a pretty singular role. Tractor beams and Quads are only okay (Quads are actually pretty fun on the above build), and Point-Defense Reroute is garbo. That is actually something that is a general detriment to the Imperials as a whole, since they tend to have more offensive retrofits. As more waves are released, we'll get more and better options for that slot. As we get better upgrades, a ship that can run two of them will start to become more appealing.

I'll be your huckle berry.. just bear with me for a couple minutes and I'll explain.

I used to run double ISD IIs with ECMs. Everyone raves that you "need" ECMs for ISDs. That is simply not true.

1. Even with ECMs how many good uses out of a brace token do you really get ?(especially with intel officers all over the place) next game keep count.

2. ECMs are definitely a good upgrade, however they are purely defensive and situational.

3. ISD II with ECM is worth 127 points. Most players dump even more into them not to mention sticking their commander on it.. even with ECMs, if a decent player concentrates on it for a 2-3 rounds it will pop. Half your list is gone and no 10-0 win for you. You'll be lucky to get an 8-2 (more like a 6-4 at that point) even if you do still win.

4. Motti (awesome commander btw) compliments ECMs and ISDs. Alot of imperial players gravitate towords him. Again, playing defensively. I can't say much here cause my first 15 games i ran motti. He's a crutch...

5. This is where i rant about only have two ships really stinks due to lack of activations, though not everyone just runs double ISD IIs. There are multitudes of other lists with only one ISD II with ECM (which i fully support and recommend) and gladiators, vsds, raiders etc.

6. Awesome thing about ISDs.. they are tanky enough to where your opponent can really only take down one reliably. Out of all my games running double ISDs i've never lost both. The second is typically pristine or missing a shield or two.

7. Great, i won't get tabled but #3 hurts. Not going to win a tournament that way.

Nobody likes vader. I decided to make a list with vader to make him work. ISD Is work much better with vader. Hmm.. now that made me make this

ISD I (117)

-Gunnery team

ISD I (117)

-Gunnery team

VSD I (109)

-Vader

That leaves 57 points for x17s, interceptors or whatever flavor you want. Every game i've played with this list crushes enemy fleets. The points are spread out, vader lets your ISDs deal ridiculous damage reliably. The three ships are perfect for pincer attacks. You have 3 activations, good hull pool, can't be out manuevered or out deployed by majority of lists. Speed three ISDs are in black range end of turn two (you dont need engine techs...). VSD makes a perfect carrier, with vader on board it also makes for a juicy target which could take heat of an ISD or lure your opponent into a trap. Also great to park on outpost. If your opponent manges to accuracy your brace every round, it gives you something to spend for vaders rerolls.

These three cards that everyone seems to dislike all work exceptionally together (isd i, vsd i, and vader). I cant explain how awesome vader is. He really makes you power hungry ha!! To make an ISD I work stop playing defensively. Go on the attack!

Just ran 3x ISD 1 today at a tournament with motti, 5 ties and a six bid.

Player one three times

Fleet ambush three times

All three games against various ackbar fleets (one was three mc80 - that game was awesome to look at)

Won the first game by having all three tag mc80 ackbar. Dead on turn two. Rest of his fleet collapsed after 9 pts

Second game just killed two mc30s fast and then took off with no point loss except ftrs. 7'pts

Third game speedy corvette list. Killed everything via ramming mostly 10 pts

With 42 hull points plus 12 shields apiece....they don't die.... They are magical. Race in all three at speed three abreast. Aim at a ship and block it's escape. It dies. Guaranteed. Repeat each turn.

LOVE the isd 1.... Cheap and strong!

You had me at huckleberry :-)

I'll be your huckle berry.. just bear with me for a couple minutes and I'll explain.

I used to run double ISD IIs with ECMs. Everyone raves that you "need" ECMs for ISDs. That is simply not true.

1. Even with ECMs how many good uses out of a brace token do you really get ?(especially with intel officers all over the place) next game keep count.

2. ECMs are definitely a good upgrade, however they are purely defensive and situational.

3. ISD II with ECM is worth 127 points. Most players dump even more into them not to mention sticking their commander on it.. even with ECMs, if a decent player concentrates on it for a 2-3 rounds it will pop. Half your list is gone and no 10-0 win for you. You'll be lucky to get an 8-2 (more like a 6-4 at that point) even if you do still win.

4. Motti (awesome commander btw) compliments ECMs and ISDs. Alot of imperial players gravitate towords him. Again, playing defensively. I can't say much here cause my first 15 games i ran motti. He's a crutch...

5. This is where i rant about only have two ships really stinks due to lack of activations, though not everyone just runs double ISD IIs. There are multitudes of other lists with only one ISD II with ECM (which i fully support and recommend) and gladiators, vsds, raiders etc.

6. Awesome thing about ISDs.. they are tanky enough to where your opponent can really only take down one reliably. Out of all my games running double ISDs i've never lost both. The second is typically pristine or missing a shield or two.

7. Great, i won't get tabled but #3 hurts. Not going to win a tournament that way.

Nobody likes vader. I decided to make a list with vader to make him work. ISD Is work much better with vader. Hmm.. now that made me make this

ISD I (117)

-Gunnery team

ISD I (117)

-Gunnery team

VSD I (109)

-Vader

That leaves 57 points for x17s, interceptors or whatever flavor you want. Every game i've played with this list crushes enemy fleets. The points are spread out, vader lets your ISDs deal ridiculous damage reliably. The three ships are perfect for pincer attacks. You have 3 activations, good hull pool, can't be out manuevered or out deployed by majority of lists. Speed three ISDs are in black range end of turn two (you dont need engine techs...). VSD makes a perfect carrier, with vader on board it also makes for a juicy target which could take heat of an ISD or lure your opponent into a trap. Also great to park on outpost. If your opponent manges to accuracy your brace every round, it gives you something to spend for vaders rerolls.

These three cards that everyone seems to dislike all work exceptionally together (isd i, vsd i, and vader). I cant explain how awesome vader is. He really makes you power hungry ha!! To make an ISD I work stop playing defensively. Go on the attack!

Also I personally love the black dice as far as damage goes once you start trully using them you realise they are worth it. Beside having guts and closing the distance will have you outdamage prety much any rebel list even the ackbar one's lots of people are complaining about.

Beside when did the Empire ever use caution in their effort, no where that I can recal, they are an agressive bunch and played that way they actualy work.

Just ran 3x ISD 1 today at a tournament with motti, 5 ties and a six bid.

Player one three times

Fleet ambush three times

All three games against various ackbar fleets (one was three mc80 - that game was awesome to look at)

Won the first game by having all three tag mc80 ackbar. Dead on turn two. Rest of his fleet collapsed after 9 pts

Second game just killed two mc30s fast and then took off with no point loss except ftrs. 7'pts

Third game speedy corvette list. Killed everything via ramming mostly 10 pts

With 42 hull points plus 12 shields apiece....they don't die.... They are magical. Race in all three at speed three abreast. Aim at a ship and block it's escape. It dies. Guaranteed. Repeat each turn.

LOVE the isd 1.... Cheap and strong!

I'm an ISD short. I'd pick up another one but i know there will be cool ships coming out in new waves that I'll want to fit into my list. Ironically i won one of my ISDs in a wave one tournament with the little brother to your list (3x VSD Is, Motti, and 7 ties).

As mentioned above, you don't pour points into it. You sprinkle enough to up its effectiveness (such as leading shots, gunnery team, and not much else) and chuck it at the enemy... tactically. Pair it with another aggressive ship (another ISD1 or Demolisher), follow up with a VSD or an ISD2, and force difficult choices from your opponent.

Key is to have a plan and maneuver aggressively, don't just throw them away.

I'm going to attempt to run an ISD1 for the first time today as my carrier pushing a big Rhymer ball, supported by an ISD2. It's only the second time I've run a 2 ISD list so here's hoping.

I believe the follow up lyric you are looking for is "Absolutely Nothing".

By which I mean I have yet to find a situation where I wouldn't rather have an ISD-II (even having read this entire thread, in which people make good points but I always look and say "even so, for just a few points more..."). Which is weird. Every other ship I can make this argument about, barring perhaps the CR90 (I am strongly of the opinion that the B is inferior, with a single exception).

Ramming things and letting your black dice do work. I put them at speed 3 and just point them at the biggest threat the rebels have and most of the time that threat just disappears.

Remember: Black dice, best dice; and it doesn't need to turn, it will drive straight to BerlinHoth.

Yeah, I'm starting to come around to the I-class on the SD types. Trying to fight the ranged battle against Rebels just doesn't work because they generally chuck way more red/blue dice your way. But they only have one ship with a lot of black dice, and at Close range it's very, very brittle.

I might have to borrow two ISD I's and run that list in a store championship next month. Sounds fun.

Beyond the "super carrier" role, which has already been discussed, I'd like to add my voice to the "it's cheap" merits.

I brought the following to my FLGS Store Championship yesterday and placed 2nd out of 8 participants:

ISD-I with Tractor Beams + Motti

ISD-I with Tractor Beams

VSD-I with Tractor Beams

8 TIE Fighters

399 points

It's just a lot of beef in one list. Some impressions:

1. Numerous Tractor Beams can help you pick out and slow down specific ships to a point where you can gang up on them and get to use your black dice semi-reliably. The ideal circumstance is to get a ship stuck between a pincer of two of your ships, where it's stuck ramming you and you're stuck ramming it (GOOD, you've got more hull to trade) and at close range. Lining up a side arc+front arc in those circumstances is not difficult and it HURTS. I took out two ISD-IIs, eating Gunnery Team nonsense the whole way, in two of the rounds that I played using this exact method and at a cost of a single ISD-I lost in the entire tournament.
2. You get a lot of table coverage simply by having more ships, two of which can go up to speed 3.
3. Between the speed 3 and the Tractor Beams you can break up conga lines admirably.
4. Two sources of squadrons 4 means your two ISDs can coordinate a Squadron-apalooza on turn 2 or 3 (depending) to dump all kinds of TIE Fighters on people, which is often sufficient to seriously hamper bomber blobs.

The ISD-I is admirable simply for not really wanting or needing (m)any upgrades. ISD-IIs are assuredly superior ships, but they want/need ECM and Gunnery Teams (and XI7s and officers and maybe titles and maybe an Ion Cannon upgrade) and it means fitting more than one of them into a fleet comes at a severe deployment and activation disadvantage. ISD-Is you can squeeze in two of with minimal upgrades and still have room for a 3rd or (with Raiders) potentially even a 4th ship. I definitely had moments where I was lusting after the longer-ranged dice and Gunnery Teams and ECMs of ISD-IIs but then would remind myself that those would have come at a trade-off of the VSD-I and felt that the VSD-I added more than the upgrades would have.

I'll also echo LazorBeems assement from earlier that I suspect we'll see better Offensive Retrofits in the future and the ISD-I would be a happy recipient of those.

Well I'm sold

Beyond the "super carrier" role, which has already been discussed, I'd like to add my voice to the "it's cheap" merits...

I'm still desperate to be able to run a 3-ISD-I list with Motti, as below:

Motti's Mallet

Faction: Galactic Empire

Points: 393/400

Commander: Admiral Motti

Assault Objective: Advanced Gunnery

Defense Objective: Contested Outpost

Navigation Objective: Superior Positions

[ flagship ] Imperial I-Class Star Destroyer (110 points)

- Admiral Motti ( 24 points)

- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)

- Phylon Q7 Tractor Beams ( 6 points)

Imperial I-Class Star Destroyer (110 points)

- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)

- Phylon Q7 Tractor Beams ( 6 points)

Imperial I-Class Star Destroyer (110 points)

- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)

- Phylon Q7 Tractor Beams ( 6 points)

Fleet created with Armada Warlords