doublepost.

I was talking recently to some friends that wave 7 ships are by far the least played that I've come across (I began playing at wave 3). The upgrades are the true powerhouses in the wave and the influence it has had on the meta has been excellent - that point alone makes the wave a success.

As for ships:

Punisher - simply too expensive. The aces require ordnance which put them into the Fel/Vader cost bracket. Unfortunately they die too easily to justify the cost.

Khiraxz - I play scum almost exclusively and I do not see the value in these guys. It has the same problems that the T65 - and the T65's problems would not be fixed with a point discount. The ship looks nice though.

K-wing - clearly a decent ship and Doni is the ace of the wave. It's doing a lot more than the punisher due to the turret and the versatility provided by the crew slot.

YV666 - I love this ship and believe it's being badly underrated. The value is in the crew slots and it will only get better with the 4 crew being released with the G1A and punishing one (4-LOM, Zuckuss, Dengar & boba). Watch this space!

Crackshot and TLT are must-include upgrades right now if you want to do well with generic shops.

The K-wing is a menace with Tactician and TLT, double-stress at range 2, particularly in pairs or with Miranda.

Everything else is fun but competitively meh. Ordnance is still being improved, Lt Blount with tracer missiles and 5 bandits with missiles and guidance chips is going to be really stupid.

Sometimes, the best things in life fizzle.

Though fizzling is not the sound the TLT makes, I imagine.

I disagree here,

The Punisher, especially Redline is really the first ordnance ship that i have seen that can actually be worth its points. Homing Missiles for Evasive fellas, Cluster Missiles for low Agility ships. Then maybe Seismics (I prefer Conner net on low PS ships for some reason) to deal with larger numbers of ships, or Plasma Torps for B-Wings and the like.

The other Punishers are not as good, but Deathrain is still decent. The Punisher is by no means a bad ship and Redline is regularly seen in tournaments, where he does well too!

The K-Wing has better generics, but again the top pilot Miranda outshines most, and she is really a good and competitive option!

The Kihraxz is at least on parity with IA X-Wings, just that The named ships don't really cut it. Talonbane is just too expensive for what he does. So either both ships don't cut it or both do...

The YV is a bit weird in current meta, as it came out just when large ships got the MoV nerf. Therefore i would not really advise it for competitive play. But other than that it's not a bad ship and its pilots have interesting abilities!

What a crap topic... you negativers have a lot to learn about this game.

Agreed. Wave 7 was GREAT!

Kihraxz: Possibly the best Scum ship to date. If you hate it, fine but please don't tell me it's useless based on that.

YV-666: Has its limitations but a very strong and highly customisable ship. Bossk + Mangler for the win!

Tie Punisher: Redline and Deathrain are great.

K-Wing: Miranda is overpowered, Wardens are good.

I'm sorry if any of you had a bad time with these ships but personally I love 'em!

1 shield though, its gonna be taking crits awfully fast though

Wave 6 added Brobots and Autothrusters, none of which changed the meta. Yeah, Brobots were semi-common but every squad other than the one the brobots were in still had a fat turret in it.

Wave 7 added TLT.

Correction, TLT is the worst to come out of wave 7...

Considering that every ******* squad I face has PS 10 regen Poe or is some imperial double ace/palp ace invincible bull, I don't see how you can complain about TLT.

So basically TLTs murdered the PWTs and took their place.

and to survive in such conditions you have to be an AT tokenstacker ace.

And now we just split the game not into Joust-Arcdodge-Turret

but into Acrdodge-TLTurret-Stresscontrol

*sheds a manly tear for the Jousters gone to the vales of eternal hunt

Yesterdays store championship taught us all to fear 4 K wings with autoblaster turrets. It was like being chased by horseflies that just keep biting.

nah, you can easily beat TLTs with Tie Fighters and just a bit of positioning know-how because you can outplay them, unlike PWTs

aces are a little tougher

You're talking garbage maniacmcgoo. The Kihraxz has a dial that is a whole order of magnitude better than the X-Wing, better generics and access to the awesome illicit slot. You're wrong, simple as that.

I completely disagree with you. If you like the ship go ahead and use it... no biggie but it's not any better than the x-wing. It has the same actions, it has the same number of hp and while the 1 hard is better as far as maneuvering it traded it for the x-wing's 3 hard turn. The illicit slot is nice I will give you that but is it better than the astromech that the T-65 can take? debatable. Also I actually think the uniques for the T-65 are hands down better than the ones for the Khiraxz.

Disagree with me all you want but the Khiraxz is a lesser version of the T-65. It is the Go Bots to the T-65s Transformers.

Regarding the Kihraxz, I'd really like to see a situation where one of them would prove to be more useful than the main other options it's competing with in the 20-25 point range:

a) a Binarye Pilot and some more upgrades on the rest of the list

b) 2 Binarye Pilots

c) a Syndicate Thug with TLT (eventually also Unhinged Astromech)

Since the game doesn't have a rolling format, eventually you'll have a lot of ships/upgrade cards filling pretty similar roles (X-wing, B-wing, T-70 all compete against each other, for example). Since there's no reason to run the second-best option in a tournament list, that means that new material in X-Wing won't have the same effect as it did back in wave 1 or wave 2. That's the inevitable consequence of a growing game. You can only really avoid it by adopting a rolling format (which people would hate) or by just having every new release power creep its way past the old releases (which people would hate).

You can see that in the ships/cards that did have a big impact - Crack Shot is the games first cheap, disposable, damage-boosting card, so its popular, Twin Laser Turret completely replaced Blaster Turret since TLT is much better, etc. The Kihraxz is competing for the "durable, mid-20s fighter" role in scum, where they already had the tougher, higher-damage Y-wing. The TIE punisher is competing in the "heavy bomber" role with the much more cost-effective TIE bomber.

You're talking garbage maniacmcgoo. The Kihraxz has a dial that is a whole order of magnitude better than the X-Wing, better generics and access to the awesome illicit slot. You're wrong, simple as that.

I completely disagree with you. If you like the ship go ahead and use it... no biggie but it's not any better than the x-wing. It has the same actions, it has the same number of hp and while the 1 hard is better as far as maneuvering it traded it for the x-wing's 3 hard turn. The illicit slot is nice I will give you that but is it better than the astromech that the T-65 can take? debatable. Also I actually think the uniques for the T-65 are hands down better than the ones for the Khiraxz.

Disagree with me all you want but the Khiraxz is a lesser version of the T-65. It is the Go Bots to the T-65s Transformers.

You're wrong. It's as sImple as that.

Kihraxz (if that's how it's spelled) can't really be compared to the T-65 because the X has 8(!) unique pilots and thus has ALOT of utility options. Biggs alone begs to be part of any list with 25-26 points to spare in order to protect a late-game-winning ace or glass cannon.

In contrast, the Scum X has a PS 9 ace that loves to be at R1 and can stay there with that hard 1 turn and possibly EU. With some other upgrades he could be decent. There's also EPT generics, but everyone seems too concerned at their costs to use em. 5K spam would have potential, but again I don't think anyone has really tried it enough to use it effectively. I don't remember anything about the other ace, sorry.

But then what do I know, I don't even have one of these ships. I did buy the rest of the wave though, and I thought those ships were very cool, though it took a long time for me to warm up to those ugly things.

I find it hard to argue that the Kihraxz is a worse ship then the T-65, the biggest difference is the T-65 has more pilots so more options to play with. The Kihraxz traded a shield for a hull. With out being able to take a droid to regen shields it's not really a big deal. Now having said that The kihraxz can more then hold it's own when it comes down a one on one compression with the T-65. I have flown this ship several times and it always seems to do better then any x-wing it fights one on one. Even when you bring the dials in to compare they have the same number of reds and greens. The kihraxz trades the 3 hard for one hards and a one straight for a 5 k turn the longer helps to reset for a pass the the 1 hard help if you want to stay in close. So please tell me again how the Kihraxz is the worst of the two.

You're talking garbage maniacmcgoo. The Kihraxz has a dial that is a whole order of magnitude better than the X-Wing, better generics and access to the awesome illicit slot. You're wrong, simple as that.

I completely disagree with you. If you like the ship go ahead and use it... no biggie but it's not any better than the x-wing. It has the same actions, it has the same number of hp and while the 1 hard is better as far as maneuvering it traded it for the x-wing's 3 hard turn. The illicit slot is nice I will give you that but is it better than the astromech that the T-65 can take? debatable. Also I actually think the uniques for the T-65 are hands down better than the ones for the Khiraxz.

Disagree with me all you want but the Khiraxz is a lesser version of the T-65. It is the Go Bots to the T-65s Transformers.

Okay, let's talk spam generics then.

- You simply can't compare hard-3 to hard-1, hard-1 is the hands-down winner! It changes what a ship can do more than any other manuever in the game.

- Illicit and astromechs are kind of beside the point, as if you're spamming a list, you need to keep costs down. But Feedback, glitter, dampeners and hotshot all radically change the kihraxz for the better. Bots are a mixed bag, but generally don't sit too well on rookie pilots.

- IA is great and really makes this head-to-head a lot closer.

- Kihraxz can go 5 to a list, something X-pilots have been pleading for for years. 15-20 red dice is not to be sniffed at.

If we're talking uniques, there's no comparison, X takes it at a saunter, but in terms of generics, Kihraxz likewise has to win, right?

special K v X-wing is no comparison

the special K is a point cheaper, has hard turns, and a choice of Ks which is ridiculous for jousters

I find it hard to argue that the Kihraxz is a worse ship then the T-65, the biggest difference is the T-65 has more pilots so more options to play with. The Kihraxz traded a shield for a hull. With out being able to take a droid to regen shields it's not really a big deal. Now having said that The kihraxz can more then hold it's own when it comes down a one on one compression with the T-65. I have flown this ship several times and it always seems to do better then any x-wing it fights one on one. Even when you bring the dials in to compare they have the same number of reds and greens. The kihraxz trades the 3 hard for one hards and the 3 k turn for a 5 k turn the longer helps to reset for a pass the the 1 hard help if you want to stay in close. So please tell me again how the Kihraxz is the worst of the two.

Kihraxz has less shields (aces hate crits)

Kihraxz lacks 1-forward that's GOD SENT for jousters

Kihraxz has no Astromech slot, so Cobra won't get fixed like Wedge did-through upgrade combos

andf t-65 never was the meat in the first place.

enough?

4/1 health and 3 red for 20pts is not a huge steal on its own... What makes the kihraxz for me is its hard-1 turn. That puts it in the top half of dials, and the two k-turns are nice too. It can joust, then hard turn to take shots of opportunity, hard one again to track, etc. On a ship with decent attack (3 red, & TL action) it's a beast of a move.

yeah its not an x wing. 65 x wings dont fly like that

It's amazing how people keep telling me the YV-666 isn't competitive and yet somehow I manage to keep winning competitive games with it. I guess if folks keep saying it enough maybe eventually I'll start doing awful with it like everyone claims I should?

Clearly, I live in Bizarro Land, but the only difference here when it comes to X-Wing is that the YV-666 can be viable. That, and dogs meow.

Also, the Khiraxz is exactly what the scum needed: a middling-cost, three dice filler ship. Before them you had Scyks and Z-95s on one side, both cheap and fragile, and then on the other end of the spectrum you have the StarViper which is just a wee bit too costly most of the time. Can you compare it to an X-Wing? Sure. But generic T-65 X-Wings can't take Crack Shot and none of them can take Glitterstim. 26 points (man, like the third time I've mentioned that number on this forum today) nets you a PS5 ship that can swoop in close, snag a TL, pop Glitter, and then shave off a defense dice to kill some poor, poor bastard. The real suffering of the Khiraxz is the aces, where COBRAAAAA has no way to really take advantage of being PS9 and Graz has an ability only less underwhelming than "Fel's Wrath". But hey, Scum keep getting new toys and both COBRAAA and Graz should be solid beneficiaries of the Cloaking Device; even if it only works for one turn, it'll give either of them the extra positioning they both desperately desire.

With that said, I'm curious to what toys the generic Mist Hunters will be capable of playing with, as they'll also give the Scum another "filler fighter" option.

Now if you'll excuse me, I gotta go back to praying to the X-Wing gods that I somehow have access to 4-L0M in time for my Store Championships, so I can load him aboard Bossk.

I find it hard to argue that the Kihraxz is a worse ship then the T-65, the biggest difference is the T-65 has more pilots so more options to play with. The Kihraxz traded a shield for a hull. With out being able to take a droid to regen shields it's not really a big deal. Now having said that The kihraxz can more then hold it's own when it comes down a one on one compression with the T-65. I have flown this ship several times and it always seems to do better then any x-wing it fights one on one. Even when you bring the dials in to compare they have the same number of reds and greens. The kihraxz trades the 3 hard for one hards and the 3 k turn for a 5 k turn the longer helps to reset for a pass the the 1 hard help if you want to stay in close. So please tell me again how the Kihraxz is the worst of the two.

Kihraxz has less shields (aces hate crits)

Kihraxz lacks 1-forward that's GOD SENT for jousters

Kihraxz has no Astromech slot, so Cobra won't get fixed like Wedge did-through upgrade combos

andf t-65 never was the meat in the first place.

enough?

How many T-65s have Glitterstim and Crack Shot? I don't think I've ever one-shotted Whisper or Soontir Fel with a Red Squadron Pilot, but I've definitely done it with Black Sun Aces.

Also, can I just have a button to "like all of Joe Boss's posts". I want to like them all, but I'm too lazy to hunt them all down.

I find it hard to argue that the Kihraxz is a worse ship then the T-65, the biggest difference is the T-65 has more pilots so more options to play with. The Kihraxz traded a shield for a hull. With out being able to take a droid to regen shields it's not really a big deal. Now having said that The kihraxz can more then hold it's own when it comes down a one on one compression with the T-65. I have flown this ship several times and it always seems to do better then any x-wing it fights one on one. Even when you bring the dials in to compare they have the same number of reds and greens. The kihraxz trades the 3 hard for one hards and the 3 k turn for a 5 k turn the longer helps to reset for a pass the the 1 hard help if you want to stay in close. So please tell me again how the Kihraxz is the worst of the two.

Kihraxz has less shields (aces hate crits)

Kihraxz lacks 1-forward that's GOD SENT for jousters

Kihraxz has no Astromech slot, so Cobra won't get fixed like Wedge did-through upgrade combos

andf t-65 never was the meat in the first place.

enough?

How many T-65s have Glitterstim and Crack Shot? I don't think I've ever one-shotted Whisper or Soontir Fel with a Red Squadron Pilot, but I've definitely done it with Black Sun Aces.

I've one-shot-murdered fel with last-hitpoint-HWK with a primary.

single crit, his dice catch cancer and he takes a stress crit. guess what happens next.

Still no place for the beautiful ships like Kihraxz in a cruel world where you see an ace in every list you'll have problems even catching in arc and TLTs that dish out more damage than your 3-attack primary against most targets.

Kihraxz is just 5 waves late.

If it landed in wave 2 it would have been a tough match like BBBB or BBBBZ or maybe even BBBX lists.

Same goes for YV, that's cool and all that, but it's too late for it. it's eaten ALIIIIVE by tlts and aces do horrible horrible things to it (Hope that G1A crew will make them pay, and Amoral Eval will be triumphant)

In other words: S&V gets ships in the same order as other factions, and if you put them against corresponding ships they can rock hard.

but now they can't. period.