Now I know they aren't canon anymore *grumbles* but I would love to see a figure pack containg non stormtrooper Imperial grunts. Even as a wee lad I reasoned that if there are stormtroopers there must be normal troopers right? I was always disappointed that these guys never made an appearance in they game by Wizards. This is your chance to win me over FF!
Here is a link for reference
The problem with Imperial Army Troopers is that there isn't much of a role for them to fill in the game. The Empire already has cheap, massed troops, and I don't know what you would do with Imperial Army Troopers to differentiate them enough from stormies.
The problem with Imperial Army Troopers is that there isn't much of a role for them to fill in the game. The Empire already has cheap, massed troops, and I don't know what you would do with Imperial Army Troopers to differentiate them enough from stormies.
Make them more like saboteurs.
The problem with Imperial Army Troopers is that there isn't much of a role for them to fill in the game. The Empire already has cheap, massed troops, and I don't know what you would do with Imperial Army Troopers to differentiate them enough from stormies.
Make them more like saboteurs.
And we could make them for scum as well, so all the factions are the same
Yeah, we don't need the factions to all run together. And what's more, army troopers seem like a very poor candidate to be the "Imperial Saboteur."
Besides, since Stormtroopers are supposed to be the best, what would regular troopers bring to the table aside from being cheaper? Like a "hired gun" for the Empire?
..... actually.... what with all the Trooper cards out there, that's exactly what they could be. Some cost 4, 3 figure deployment card with 2 health each rolling Green/Blue and then a black die with some trait like "Lightly Armored: -1 block to Defense rolls." Or something along those lines.
I was imagining them being absolute cannon fodder as well.
While I like the design, I prefer (and think we are more likely to see) Navy troopers. Here's my idea for 'em:
cost 4 reinforce cost 2 reinforcements (number in group; I can't remember what it's called) 2
trooper guardian
attack ranged blue yellow
surges pierce 1 and +2 accuracy
abilities hold ground - small figures may not enter your space
health 3 speed 4 defense white
cost 6 reinforce cost 3 reinforcement 2
trooper guardian
attack ranged blue yellow
surges pierce 1 +1damage +3 accuracy
abilities hold ground
the mission first -> suffer 1 damage then perform an attack if the attack hits the target suffers 1 strain and becomes stunned.
health 5 speed 4 defense white
The problem with Imperial Army Troopers...
No, the problem with them is that they're a lame concept with no support in the films that was bizarrely shoehorned into the EU for no good reason.
Edited by ForgottenloreNo, the problem with them is that they're a lame concept with no support in the films that was bizarrely shoehorned into the EU for no good reason.The problem with Imperial Army Troopers...
Your mom is a lame concept!
The problem with Imperial Army Troopers...
No, the problem with them is that they're a lame concept with no support in the films that was bizarrely shoehorned into the EU for no good reason.
"... no good reason."
Stormtroopers are described as elite. In order for one group to be elite, there have to be others who aren't, because elite is a relative term. Regardless, we don't need them in Imperial Assault.
Stormtroopers are described as elite. In order for one group to be elite, there have to be others who aren't,
Not in the movies they aren't. The films claim they are expert marksmen and show Stormtroopers filling the role of basic infantryman.
And even if they were described as elite, that would be in contrast to the soldiers of other organizations.
FF has already made use of EU/ Legands material in their games so it doesn't seem like everything has to come from the new canon. I can understand though if someone just doesn't care for the whole idea or believes that the unit type wouldn't add anything of value to the game.
In any military there are going to be marginal soldiers. There are those who are too old too young or simply not motivated enough to make good front line soldiers. However such troops can free up better units for combat by taking over low skill and low value assignments. Would you rather have a Battalion of the 501st guarding an ammo dump 1,000 kilometers from the front lines or some schmucks that costs half as much to raise and are half as competent? I think that Imperial army was added to the EU to allow the Empire to employ some sort of economy of force. Again though I understand if others simply don't care for them.
Stormtroopers are described as elite. In order for one group to be elite, there have to be others who aren't,
Not in the movies they aren't. The films claim they are expert marksmen and show Stormtroopers filling the role of basic infantryman.
And even if they were described as elite, that would be in contrast to the soldiers of other organizations.
The problem is, the original trilogy disagrees with you. Stormtroopers are never *ever seen filling the role of a basic infantrymen. They are always filling the role of, well, a Stormtrooper.
A New Hope: We initially see the Stormtroopers acting as Marines, boarding and neutralizing the crew. Note they are in the company of Vader.
Later we see them doing a planetary sweep of Tattoine looking for the missing droids. Note they are there under orders from Vader. The dialog (specifically Luke's surprise at seeing them) implies they are not the garrison, but rather a special force.
Finally we see them onboard the DeathStar, again acting as Marines. Note again they are in the company of Vader.
Empire Strikes Back: We initially see the Snowtroopers (later identified as stormtroopers with special armor) acting as stormtroopers and assaulting the base on Hoth, acting in advance of the mechanized forces. Note they are again in the company of Vader.
Secondly we see them on Bespin. This one is notable because it was at this time we see Vader threaten Lando with a Stormtrooper garrison. You can see by Landos surprise that this in not normal procedure. Note that they are again under the command of Vader.
Return of the Jedi: We're gonna skip to Endor. There is a deleted scene that puts Stormtroopers in the Shield Station. They fare as well as you would expect if you take assault forces and force them to pretend to be a garrison (they get slaughtered) Assuming we skip the deleted scene, the stormtroopers are once again attacking to retake the Shield Station, not fighting to defend it. The actual garrison is the black large-helmed guys. These guys also assist in retaking the Station. These guys were later called Navy Troopers, but they were initially called "imperial guard" in the New Hope Novel. We see these troopers a stationary occupying force is encountered. They are dressed identically to the Army Troopers we see piloting the ATAT and ATST. It should be noted that the stormtroopers that are there, not only on the command of Vader, but the emperor himself.
We see in all three films the Stormtroopers acting as shocktroopers, in the pattern set forth by the original imperial stormtroopers, the Strumgeuppen serving the Prussian Empire. Not once do we see Stormtroopers acting as an occupying force. We dont see them building fortifications. We dont see them maintaining bases. We dont see them clearing minefields. We dont see them escorting convoys in hostile territory. We so not see them acting as basic infantrymen. Ever.
We know the Imperial military is divided into Navy, Army, and Stormtrooper Corp, each with their own purpose. Its ludicrous to imply that the Imperial Army had nothing but giant walking tanks and no infantry whatsoever. Planetary occupation fell under the auspice of the army, and it is impossible to effectively garrison really anything without infantry, especially urban areas.
Personally I would love to see some Imperial Army Troopers in the game. I'm sick and tired of finding the empire's shock assault forces pretending to be a garrison every time I turn over a rock.
I agree with this. Army Troopers please.
Stormtroopers are described as elite. In order for one group to be elite, there have to be others who aren't,
Not in the movies they aren't. The films claim they are expert marksmen and show Stormtroopers filling the role of basic infantryman.
And even if they were described as elite, that would be in contrast to the soldiers of other organizations.
The problem is, the original trilogy disagrees with you. Stormtroopers are never *ever seen filling the role of a basic infantrymen. They are always filling the role of, well, a Stormtrooper.
A New Hope: We initially see the Stormtroopers acting as Marines, boarding and neutralizing the crew. Note they are in the company of Vader.
Later we see them doing a planetary sweep of Tattoine looking for the missing droids. Note they are there under orders from Vader. The dialog (specifically Luke's surprise at seeing them) implies they are not the garrison, but rather a special force.
Finally we see them onboard the DeathStar, again acting as Marines. Note again they are in the company of Vader.
Empire Strikes Back: We initially see the Snowtroopers (later identified as stormtroopers with special armor) acting as stormtroopers and assaulting the base on Hoth, acting in advance of the mechanized forces. Note they are again in the company of Vader.
Secondly we see them on Bespin. This one is notable because it was at this time we see Vader threaten Lando with a Stormtrooper garrison. You can see by Landos surprise that this in not normal procedure. Note that they are again under the command of Vader.
Return of the Jedi: We're gonna skip to Endor. There is a deleted scene that puts Stormtroopers in the Shield Station. They fare as well as you would expect if you take assault forces and force them to pretend to be a garrison (they get slaughtered) Assuming we skip the deleted scene, the stormtroopers are once again attacking to retake the Shield Station, not fighting to defend it. The actual garrison is the black large-helmed guys. These guys also assist in retaking the Station. These guys were later called Navy Troopers, but they were initially called "imperial guard" in the New Hope Novel. We see these troopers a stationary occupying force is encountered. They are dressed identically to the Army Troopers we see piloting the ATAT and ATST. It should be noted that the stormtroopers that are there, not only on the command of Vader, but the emperor himself.
We see in all three films the Stormtroopers acting as shocktroopers, in the pattern set forth by the original imperial stormtroopers, the Strumgeuppen serving the Prussian Empire. Not once do we see Stormtroopers acting as an occupying force. We dont see them building fortifications. We dont see them maintaining bases. We dont see them clearing minefields. We dont see them escorting convoys in hostile territory. We so not see them acting as basic infantrymen. Ever.
We know the Imperial military is divided into Navy, Army, and Stormtrooper Corp, each with their own purpose. Its ludicrous to imply that the Imperial Army had nothing but giant walking tanks and no infantry whatsoever. Planetary occupation fell under the auspice of the army, and it is impossible to effectively garrison really anything without infantry, especially urban areas.
Personally I would love to see some Imperial Army Troopers in the game. I'm sick and tired of finding the empire's shock assault forces pretending to be a garrison every time I turn over a rock.
A great argument that is backed up by force unleashed which is now not canon; and then only by the PS2 and Wii versions which were not then canon. Okay, forget I said anything about Force Unleashed.
stuff
Did you watch the same movies I did?
No one was surprised to see stormtroopers, just afraid of them.
In the films we see Stormtroopers boarding ships, conducting searches of towns, garrisoning outposts (the force in Endor wasn't brought in to retake the generator, that was the force that was supposed to be defending it that got caught flatfooted by the Rebels finding the back door) escorting prisoner transfers. In other words, we see stormtroopers, and only stormtroopers, acting as regular infantry. I'm sure the ones under Vader were better trained than most (attrition, if nothing else), but there was no way all the ones on the DS were Vader's personal guard, in fact it is likely none of them were.
The Stormtroopers ARE the imperial army. The fact that they are called stormtroopers is just part of the psychological warfare the empire uses. They guys in the white armor are the grunt infantry because we have never seen anyone else who could fill that role. guys who aren't in the white armor are part of the same organization fulfilling different roles, like pilot, officer, At-At driver, tech, gunner and so on.
This idiotic division is purely the invention of later Expanded Universe authors and makes no sense, at all, and there is nothing in the movies to support it. Thankfully, the new canon seems to be doing away with it by showing Stormtroopers as just the Empire's soldiers and performing all the stuff soldiers do, just like they did in the movies.
The overwhelming majority of things in the Expanded Universe have less to support them than the notion of an Army, separate from the Stormtrooper Corps. We see the army, driving the AT-ATs and AT-STs. The entire ISB -- and from that, COMPNOR -- is built upon one guy, who doesn't say anything, at a conference table wearing a white jacket instead of a grey one.
The overwhelming majority of things in the Expanded Universe have less to support them than the notion of an Army, separate from the Stormtrooper Corps. We see the army, driving the AT-ATs and AT-STs.
You mean the stormtroopers in tank driving gear?
Because you always change clothes to drive a car?
Because soldiers with different specialties have different kit.
I hope we can all stay friends here. I think the idea, as has been mentioned, is pretty much unnecessary. You have Stormtroopers and Elite Stormtrooper. Elite Stormtroopers seem like Ranger Bat to me. Anyway, yes, there is room for some 3 point , disposable, increased activation cannon fodder, but it seems to just be matching each team with a different sculpt of the same basic unit. The Empire is high-tech, expensive units with survivability (well, not in the films) versus the Rebellions high quantity low quality model. I think the Empire would surely use regular troops to guard outposts and do sentry duty, but I don't see them deploying into battle on this scale. That's my 2 credits.
Basically the problem is FFG made the stormtroopers too weak and based them on the films and not the lore/EU (despite using content from the lore/EU for the game.) Therefore theres not much room for yet weaker troops since Stormtroopers are so weak already.
The only thing could be to make group of something like Imperial Officers without the order ability and name them Imperial Navy/Army troopers.
stuff
A poor rebuttal
What I'm getting from your argument is you believe there are no stormtroopers, just guys in white armor. To rebut that, we need to remind ourselves that George Lucas is not an idiot, is the same guy that gave us Indiana Jones, and knows full well what the hell a Stormtrooper is in historical context.
The word "Stormtrooper" was originally coined in the later years of WW1 as the German word "sturmtruppen". These soldiers were tasked with breaking past the enemy trenches using nonstandard tactics and raising hell with very little support from the rest of the army. Unfortunately this is only part of the model for our Star Wars unit.
After WW1 there was a time of peace where the seeds of the second conflict were already festering. Hitler was gathering power. One of the ways he was doing this was by attracting to his side the veterans of the last war, notable, the stormtroopers. These Stormtroopers went on to become the Shutzstaffel (literally meaning guard staff) that originally guarded Hitler during his public appearances and speeches.
However, as the war progressed, the Shutzstaffel (or SS) changed their focus. They were Hitlers personal hands. It was the SS that are responsible for pretty much every atrocity Germany is accused of during that time period.
The SS were not part of the army. They were separate from the Wehrmacht and answered for their own chain of command ending in Vader and the Emperor himself... I mean Hitler. Where do you think the Empire got its huMAN focus?
Fast forward to the end of the war and, in Star Wars, our most recent Episode 7. During the reclamation of Europe by allied forces, the SS were pressed into military service more often in defensive actions. During the battle of Normandy even the Hitlers Youth corp, units of fanatical youths who had been raised under the rule of Hitler and knew nothing else, in the same way, for example, Finn was, were used in combat against the invaders.
In summary, it makes sense we always see the Star Wars Stormtrooper in the company of either Vader or the emperor. They are following the historical analog that Lucas set for them. He had Indiana Jones fighting the exact same people (with the exception of the tank drivers/atat drivers, those would have been wehrmacht/imperial army)
Now that we understand the historical and cinematic context, it makes a lot more sense that there would be basic infantry that we do not see because they are simply outside of the scope of the film.
stuff
Did you watch the same movies I did?
No one was surprised to see stormtroopers, just afraid of them.
In the films we see Stormtroopers boarding ships, conducting searches of towns, garrisoning outposts (the force in Endor wasn't brought in to retake the generator, that was the force that was supposed to be defending it that got caught flatfooted by the Rebels finding the back door) escorting prisoner transfers. In other words, we see stormtroopers, and only stormtroopers, acting as regular infantry. I'm sure the ones under Vader were better trained than most (attrition, if nothing else), but there was no way all the ones on the DS were Vader's personal guard, in fact it is likely none of them were.
The Stormtroopers ARE the imperial army. The fact that they are called stormtroopers is just part of the psychological warfare the empire uses. They guys in the white armor are the grunt infantry because we have never seen anyone else who could fill that role. guys who aren't in the white armor are part of the same organization fulfilling different roles, like pilot, officer, At-At driver, tech, gunner and so on.
This idiotic division is purely the invention of later Expanded Universe authors and makes no sense, at all, and there is nothing in the movies to support it. Thankfully, the new canon seems to be doing away with it by showing Stormtroopers as just the Empire's soldiers and performing all the stuff soldiers do, just like they did in the movies.
While I might agree that there is no indication of the "Imperial Army" in the films unless you decide certain things are Imperial Army (ie, the drivers of the AT-STs on Endor), it isn't an idea that makes no sense. "Stormtroopers" indicate they are different from normal infantry, otherwise they are just "infantry". The name alone suggests that there is something else to compare them to, as does Obi-Wan's claim that "only Imperial Stormtroopers are so precise." This again suggests elite status.
I admit the films never show us anything that is unequivocally "Imperial Army". I would see the the AT AT crews as being part of the same force as the "stormtroopers", even if they might not be "stormtroopers" themselves (however you define that). However, I think there is enough to imply that there is some other military force in existence, whether it is an "Imperial Army" or that planets normally have an independently organised Planetary Defence Force (if we are going to borrow 40k terms).
As to the Stormtroopers Garrisoning Endor: They were'nt expected to be there in force. They were not simply garrisoning the base, but where there to trap the rebels (ie, only to be revealed after the Rebels had committed themselves to the attack). The search of Tatooine seems to have been a matter of the troops that Darth Vader had at his commanded (stormtroopers based on his ships) being deployed to do a job that there were no decent local forces to carry out (Tatooine being a backward shithole in the ass end of nowhere which is primarily controlled by crime lords). It doesn't necessarily imply that normal garrison duties would be given to Stormtroopers if they had the time to organise something else. They were escorting prisoner transfers on a military base which was a secret project at the highest levels of the Imperial military, where you might want to try and limit your staff to those which you trust the most. We don't know that they would do the same on any other planet, or whether you would assign stormtroopers to man a prison camp normally.
Boarding ships sounds like the exact kind of thing you might use an elite assault force to do... the boarding scene in A New Hope does not suggest that was the normal routine of a customs inspection.
Edited by borithan