Hey all,

In tournament play in my area the local store does 3 or 4 games per tournament. When we had fewer people, around 6 to 8, this seemed ok.

Yesterday we had 13 people show up. This is good any many ways. However 4 games seemed like a unsatisfactory number to determine a winner with a much larger pool of players.

Another issue is the odd number of folks. The Bye system giving them a full 5 point victory and 150 points is a HUGE advantage in this small amount of games format! Very random and unfair.

There is no room for any mistakes and the random luck factor of who gets the free Win with the Bye seems to turn the 4 game tournament into a pretty solid luck fest.

It seems like having a sign up sheet and the last person being not able to come if he/she would be an odd number would completely avoid this unfair Bye point system.

I asked if they could do a all day tournament on a weekend and they refuse. They decided in their wisdom another evening tournament would be good instead.

Was wondering if anyone else has these issues.

I will not be doing anymore "Tournament" if that's what they want to call them at thise store until this issue is addressed.

https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/d0/f9/d0f931fe-22a2-4bb3-9647-46945a86f1e8/x-wing_tournament_rules_v401.pdf

If you have a look at the FFG Tournament rules, you will see that what you describe conforms to them exactly (assuming the later tound byes go to the lowest ranked players). 16 or less players, 4 rounds, no cut is what FFG recommends.

4 rounds is enough for 13 people to end up with 1 undefeated player, which gives you a definite first place, then second on down can be determined from MoV. I don't love it, I've come in 2nd a ton of times at tournaments where I never actually got to PLAY the first place player, but the only way to fix that is by having a Cut to the top 4 or such, which means at least another 2 rounds (for the people that make the cut at least), and doesn't match the round structure listed by FFG in the tournament rules now.

As for Byes, the only person it realistically might help win is the first round. Then they only have to win 3 games to go undefeated instead of 4. After the first round, the bye goes to the last place player, which means they've already lost at least 1 game and are out of the running for first place regardless. personally I'd WAY rather have byes due to an odd number of players as opposed to someone showing up for a tournament and not being allowed to play. That's just not fun for them.

The Byes were supposedly handed out at random. Not sure how this was done.

Really the Byes and free points is ridiculous in such a small format. If there was 6-8 games the byes would definitely be less of a huge advantage.

Your complaint is groundless; the tournament is following FFG's rules. If you want bigger tournaments, make an effort to build your local community.

The first bye is random (since no one has any points yet), but the rounds after that should be given to the player in last place per the tournament rules:

the player who receives a bye is determined randomly in the first round. in later rounds, the bye is given to the player with the fewest tournament points

Like I said, you might get a marginal advantage from a first-round bye, but other than that it really isn't going to affect the final outcome much. It's also partly balanced by the fact that you only get 150 MoV for a bye. If you destroy your opponents list and lose less than 50 points yourself, you're better off playing the game than you are getting a bye. Also, it's worth noting that if a player gets the round 1 bye and wins the rest of their games, it's probably a fairly safe assumption that they could have won the first round too...

The Byes were supposedly handed out at random. Not sure how this was done.

Really the Byes and free points is ridiculous in such a small format. If there was 6-8 games the byes would definitely be less of a huge advantage.

...Or you could consider it punishment, since that person showed up to play X-Wing and instead had to sit around being bored for an hour and a half.

And maybe, just maybe, if they then go on to win their next three rounds against opponents that are 1-0, 2-0 and finally 3-0, they maaaaaybe deserved to win the tournament. Maybe.

I have seen people complain about getting a bye becase it only gave them 150-0 versus possibly getting 200-0.

I think the 50 pt difference for MOV is sufficient and represents the middle of possible points.

Also - if you had 6 players in the store when they announced the tournament and signed up, do you really want to exclude a guy who hears about it later and happens to be # 7?

Yes I would exclude the odd person to avoid the unfair bye point system.

If I was the odd number that would include me with no complaints.

Your complaint is groundless; the tournament is following FFG's rules. If you want bigger tournaments, make an effort to build your local community.

If the bye was handed out at random, then that wouldn't make a lot of sense.

Yes I would exclude the odd person to avoid the unfair bye point system.

If I was the odd number that would include me with no complaints.

Personally i'd far rather see there be a bye than for someone to just not get to play at all.

Your complaint is groundless; the tournament is following FFG's rules. If you want bigger tournaments, make an effort to build your local community.

If the bye was handed out at random, then that wouldn't make a lot of sense.

That entirely depends if the bye actually was handed out randomly every round or not. If it was, then they were definitely doing that wrong and should fix it. Doesn't mean you should exclude people just to avoid having byes at all.

Vorpal Sword, on 29 Jan 2016 - 6:29 PM, said:

Your complaint is groundless; the tournament is following FFG's rules. If you want bigger tournaments, make an effort to build your local community.

Fill in the blank for yourself. ______ ____

If the current rule set is this ridiculous system I guess there's no helping it.

Next time they offer an open format tournament I will simply wait there and see how many folks sign up. Then right before start pay and sign up if there is an even number of players.

Still an unsatisfactory system to say the least.

Your complaint is groundless; the tournament is following FFG's rules. If you want bigger tournaments, make an effort to build your local community.

If the bye was handed out at random, then that wouldn't make a lot of sense.

That entirely depends if the bye actually was handed out randomly every round or not. If it was, then they were definitely doing that wrong and should fix it. Doesn't mean you should exclude people just to avoid having byes at all.

Oh, I totally agree with that but that wasn't my point, just that if the byes were totally random then it isn't being done correctly. I do see now he wasn't sure of that.

Vorpal Sword, on 29 Jan 2016 - 6:29 PM, said:

Your complaint is groundless; the tournament is following FFG's rules. If you want bigger tournaments, make an effort to build your local community.

Fill in the blank for yourself. ______ ____

If the current rule set is this ridiculous system I guess there's no helping it.

Next time they offer an open format tournament I will simply wait there and see how many folks sign up. Then right before start pay and sign up if there is an even number of players.

Still an unsatisfactory system to say the least.

Thank you?

Seriously though, your complaint is groundless. You might not like the system - and you're entitled to your opinion - but store was adhering to the regs as laid out by FFG. You know, the guys who designed the game.

So, you can either try and grow the community so you've more players, which means more rounds; or you can take your bat & ball and go home if you're not happy as things stand.

But to come on here and complain, and then get narky after people point out the flaws in your complaint, is immature to say the least.

Out of curiosity, why don't you feel that a bye is as big of a deal in a 6 round tournament vs a 4 round?

Yes I would exclude the odd person to avoid the unfair bye point system.

If I was the odd number that would include me with no complaints.

There's not really a good way to do the bye but it shouldn't be the advantage you think. It should go to the lowest scoring player, so It's really only significant for two players (The first, who gets a free win and the second who can make a good run after going 0-1). After that, it would go to an 0-2 player, then 0-3, who don't really have a chance of winning. The first player gets the biggest gain from it but then still has to pretty much win out of such a small tourney to go 4-0 facing tougher and tougher competition.

A bye needs to keep a player in the tournament, if it doesn't it's essentially a loss and the 150 point win does that. I'll point out that with even numbers, you'd have the same number of players with wins anyway.

There are byes in numerous competitive events, why is it suddenly a problem if xwing has them? Are you really that needy that you must play competitively only if there are no byes? I've had that first round bye in an xwing tourny, and it gave me time to walk around and look what I was up against. Make it an advantage to check out play styles and ship choices.

Ask yourself, do you like playing Xwing? If yes, play the game. If byes mean so much that you show up but refuse to play for odd number players you are really not enjoying yourself and wasting only your own time.

VanderLegion, on 29 Jan 2016 - 6:51 PM, said:VanderLegion, on 29 Jan 2016 - 6:51 PM, said:

Out of curiosity, why don't you feel that a bye is as big of a deal in a 6 round tournament vs a 4 round?

Let me put it this way. If there were 2 games total to be played, with 13 players and 2 byes were handed out at random would that be groovy for you?

Its all down to the math. In a larger pool of games to be played the Byes themselves would not factor in as much. In the 2 game scenario you would be pretty dense to think it would not matter. The more games played the less the Bye system screws up the rankings.

Edit note - Again the issue is resolved as I will simply not sign up for a tournament with an odd number of players. I get it the Bye system is loved by all and deal with it. Hence I will in my own way. Thank you.

I would rather lose 200-0 than take a bye. It is no reward.

But there's really nothing else to be done about it.

I don't love the bye system, but it solves a problem.

I run tournaments, and to avoid anyone having to take a bye, I sit out of the event if it evens up the number of players.

You're not going to avoid the possibility of a bye unless you have someone like you and me willing to sit out.

As for the unsatisfactory number of rounds, talk to your tournament organizer about changing it. I like running non-standard tournaments and there's no reason you have to stick to the recommended guidelines.

For a standard tournament, I find 3-4 rounds is plenty. I like playing X-wing, but after that much time I'm usually ready to do something else, or at least my back is ready to stop leaning over a table.

I've been to plenty of video game tournaments where I have basically played for 15+ hours straight of both casual and tournament matches with no issues, but they don't involve leaning over tables. I would hesitate to enter the longer X-wing tournaments that run until 1 or 2 am for this reason alone.

VanderLegion, on 29 Jan 2016 - 6:51 PM, said:VanderLegion, on 29 Jan 2016 - 6:51 PM, said:

Out of curiosity, why don't you feel that a bye is as big of a deal in a 6 round tournament vs a 4 round?

Let me put it this way. If there were 2 games total to be played, with 13 players and 2 byes were handed out at random would that be groovy for you?

Its all down to the math. In a larger pool of games to be played the Byes themselves would not factor in as much. In the 2 game scenario you would be pretty dense to think it would not matter. The more games played the less the Bye system screws up the rankings.

Edit note - Again the issue is resolved as I will simply not sign up for a tournament with an odd number of players. I get it the Bye system is loved by all and deal with it. Hence I will in my own way. Thank you.

If you have 2 games with 13 players the byes aren't the problem. The lack of enough rounds to determine a real winner is. And if the byes are truly being handed out randomly every round, that's again not a problem of the byes themselves. It's the store doing it wrong.

Yes I would exclude the odd person to avoid the unfair bye point system.

If I was the odd number that would include me with no complaints.

I have a solution for you, every time there us an odd number of players you drop out and let everyone else have fun.

Icelom, on 29 Jan 2016 - 7:38 PM, said:

Tokyogriz, on 29 Jan 2016 - 6:34 PM, said:

Yes I would exclude the odd person to avoid the unfair bye point system.

If I was the odd number that would include me with no complaints.

I have a solution for you, every time there us an odd number of players you drop out and let everyone else have fun.

Yes that is the solution thank you.