So last night there was a lengthy and somewhat heated discussion about Omega Leader and his pilot ability. Case in question is my OL had a Poe locked. It was understood that he couldn’t use his thrusters or predator, but the debate really heated up when it came to his pilot ability. I maintained that OL’s pilot ability would prevent Poe’s eyeball flipping, and he questioned why my ability to say NO trumped his ability to say YES? I didn’t have a good answer to that and this is where the discussion swirled with a good 3-4 others chiming in their thoughts.

So my question is, when one thing says you can’t do something, and another says you can, who’s ability happens, and is there supporting evidence?

Thanks!

Poe's ability, no matter how it is worded, is dice modification.

Omega's ability prevents dice modification. Therefore, Poe cannot do it.

In the RRG or Rules you should be able to find the "Golden Rule." The Golden Rule partly says that the word "cannot" is absolute and overrides anything that says you can.

So my question is, when one thing says you can’t do something, and another says you can, who’s ability happens, and is there supporting evidence?

The 'cannot' win in this sort of rule set. Poe's ability is just a subset of modifying dice, as noted.

Note the equivalent; where a ship with an R2 astromech (all speed 1-2 maneuvers are green) takes a critical hit that turns all hard turns red, the negative condition (the maneuver is red) wins out.

On the plus side, shoot Omega Leader with a heavy laser cannon - you get to keep [critical] results on your first roll rather than turning them to [hit].

Yup. OL wins. Poe hates OL with a fiery passion.

I mean, you could make the same argument about any other form of dice mods - Autothrusters, for instance, are phrased exactly the same, as is Target Lock, as is Focus, etc etc etc. There's nothing that makes Poe's pilot ability special. What was the argument otherwise, out of interest?

The argument was why OL's pilot ability should trump Poe's pilot ability, and that there was nothing supporting my insistence that it did. They fully agreed generic upgrades and actions couldn't be used, but "the best rebel pilot around shouldn't get shut down so easily by some shmuck TIE who lived through a mission so they made him a leader"

Apparently there is a rule I should find that No beats Yes.

Isn't it lovely trying to argue rules with people that obviously don't care about rules any way

Apparently there is a rule I should find that No beats Yes.

That's not completely true. Cannot trumps all, and that is in the rule book. But that means it has to say cannot or can't, and FFG seems to be pretty careful about including that word when/where intended.

Also there is a common misunderstanding that this means a negative effect trumps a positive one, which is not true.

An effect that increases the difficulty of a maneuver trumps an effect that lowers it, that's why the crit that turns a maneuver red wins out on R2, but does not hold true for the 1 white straight when you have a ion token.

The argument was why OL's pilot ability should trump Poe's pilot ability, and that there was nothing supporting my insistence that it did. They fully agreed generic upgrades and actions couldn't be used, but "the best rebel pilot around shouldn't get shut down so easily by some shmuck TIE who lived through a mission so they made him a leader"

Apparently there is a rule I should find that No beats Yes.

It doesn't matter what the characters history or whatever is. This is a game. Not real lol. And they don't take into consideration what a character does or did in a movie

By their standards OL ability won't work on Vader then because he's the dark Lord, and most powerful. Why would OL ability trump his?

It's right on the card. Read what the card says.

NO DICE MODIFICATION

That's it plain and simple

Poe pilot ability is a modification.

Well that's your answer

If OL has poe target locked he cannot modify his dice when attacking or defending from OL.

Now he can still use his ability against other pilots and modify his attacks and defense.

Just can't use it against OL.

The argument was why OL's pilot ability should trump Poe's pilot ability, and that there was nothing supporting my insistence that it did. They fully agreed generic upgrades and actions couldn't be used, but "the best rebel pilot around shouldn't get shut down so easily by some shmuck TIE who lived through a mission so they made him a leader"

Apparently there is a rule I should find that No beats Yes.

They'll really flip when they find out that Poe can't use his ability when attacking a lowly 16 point TIE Fighter that doesn't even rate being a leader of anything.

They'll really flip when they find out that Poe can't use his ability when attacking a lowly 16 point TIE Fighter that doesn't even rate being a leader of anything.

Poe doesn't spend his Focus when using his ability, thus Dark Curse's ability doesn't apply (unless he wants to spend a TL or use the Focus token for more than 1 die).

They'll really flip when they find out that Poe can't use his ability when attacking a lowly 16 point TIE Fighter that doesn't even rate being a leader of anything.

Poe doesn't spend his Focus when using his ability, thus Dark Curse's ability doesn't apply (unless he wants to spend a TL or use the Focus token for more than 1 die).

Good catch. I forgot that Dark Curse required that the token be spent.

They'll really flip when they find out that Poe can't use his ability when attacking a lowly 16 point TIE Fighter that doesn't even rate being a leader of anything.

Poe doesn't spend his Focus when using his ability, thus Dark Curse's ability doesn't apply (unless he wants to spend a TL or use the Focus token for more than 1 die).

Good catch. I forgot that Dark Curse required that the token be spent.

Going to be a rude shock to people who think 4-lom will be a poe counter as well.

The argument was why OL's pilot ability should trump Poe's pilot ability, and that there was nothing supporting my insistence that it did. They fully agreed generic upgrades and actions couldn't be used, but "the best rebel pilot around shouldn't get shut down so easily by some shmuck TIE who lived through a mission so they made him a leader"

Apparently there is a rule I should find that No beats Yes.

No need to go looking. Here it is straight from page 2:

If a card ability or mission effect uses the word “cannot,” that effect is absolute and cannot be overridden by other effects.

OL says "cannot" so he wins.

I always love the thematic arguers in this game

I always look be the thematic arguers in this game

That won't get you very far though.

I always look be the thematic arguers in this game

That won't get you very far though.

Phone typos...ugh. fixed it.