According to this site it is: http://xwing.miniranker.com/

It seems to win a lot of tournaments and would possibly win more if the list wouldn´t be somewhat frowned upon. I know I have been hesitant to play it because of player reaction. People say it must be boring to play but I can´t see it´s any more boring to play than other PS2 swarms (sure, 4 TLTs are probably easier to navigate decently well).

There was one guy at Worlds (made it to top 8) who played 4xTLT exceptionally well. He is the Polish champion I believe (won with the same list) and if you watch his games you see him navigate the Ys in a very creative and unpredictable manner.

So, my questions are:

1. Is quad TLT the most successful tournament list at the moment?

2. Is this list getting an undeserved reaction?

Short answer, no.

Long answer, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

It is however a pain in the ... to play against.

All of this is based on my first-hand (friendly games and local tournaments) experience: IMO, this list seems to have a very high floor (you can hand quad TLT to a complete newbie) but not a very high ceiling (it's only so much you can do with 4 PS2 Y-wings). It also has some pretty tough counters (I have yet to see a quad-TLT beat Palpatine and 2 Aces)

All in all in my local meta it's a list that usually places well, but rarely wins.

I would say yes.

It's reasonably easy to fly it well, and like you said, some people can fly it unpredictably and get great results. I don't think it's OP or something, there are ways to counter it, but it's certainly a very strong list with very few hard counters and a lot of easy matchups.

The main faults are it's lack of repositioning tricks and PS 2.

It's a good list - but as noted, not overpowered because there are squads that can beat it at its own game.

Any squad that can gun down a Y-wing before it shoots will take it out (a lot can come close but relatively few will actually do it barring a lucky critical), as will squads which can reliably (or fairly reliably) dodge an unmodified 3-dice shot.

If you want an interesting take on it, consider 3 TLTs with a few tricks - your damage output suffers (it always does with aces) but if you can make sure you dodge attacking arcs (with higher PS and engine upgrades), and don't miss (things like Kavil's extra attack dice or Horton's rerolls), you can win - and you probably have a better chance against things like TIE swarms.

The challenge is planning positioning. If you can concentrate all four turrets on one ship, it should go down in one turn. The problem is if you find your opponent coming in such that each target is only in range of 1-2 turrets respectively.

I wonder if tractor beams will ruin the TLT y-wings day. Just get into R3 of a Y, barrel roll it up close to you, then rip it to pieces with the (Defender) and other aces. Rinse and repeat.

It's strong, but eventually it'll run into a Sensor Jammin' ship. Whisper can solo four TLT Ys.

I think the premise that there is a strongest list - is not a good one.

I wonder if tractor beams will ruin the TLT y-wings day. Just get into R3 of a Y, barrel roll it up close to you, then rip it to pieces with the (Defender) and other aces. Rinse and repeat.

When Imperial Veterans drops the TLT Y-Wing list is going to become an uncommon one because triple Defenders is going to be a hard counter.

Faced two of these lists in my last tournament (60 people regional-like). Had no problem defeating both of them loosing only a ship every time.

And I wasn't flying with super-autothrustered ships. Just Miranda + stressbot + blue + bandit.

I think it's a list that even a newbie can fly and manage to deal some damage or even kill one of the oponent's ship because of the high amount of attacks it can perform, that increases the possibility of coupling now and then with an unlucky evade roll streak from the defender.

Other than that, it suffers greatly when you focus-fire and/or get to close combat. In that moment the damage output of the lists vanishes.

It is mostly good at doing what it was designed to: scare away fat ships.

I wonder if tractor beams will ruin the TLT y-wings day. Just get into R3 of a Y, barrel roll it up close to you, then rip it to pieces with the (Defender) and other aces. Rinse and repeat.

Possibly ion cannon Defenders will be even stronger. Once the Ys are ionised you know where they will be and you can coast along behind them in the range 1 doughnut and there is not much they can do.

It's not fool-proof as you can only get 3 ion Defenders for the cost of 4 TLT Y-wings so there will always be one free to shoot but you can certainly minimise the damage you will take whilst piling the hits onto them

Tie Advanceds with AC and cluster missiles can also make a bit of a mess of them if paired with T-beam Defenders. That is 4 guaranteed hits and the Ys lose their agility after a single T-beam hit. The Advanceds don't really need to Focus or T-lock with the accuracy corrector so they can Evade during the first couple of turns and then switch to either Evading or Barrel rolling if it will get them into the hole of the doughnut.

Even a single Defernder plus a swarm or other way of getting multiple shots downrange at init 3+ will hard-counter this. Vessery plus Redline is pumping 9 or 10 well-modded dice into each of the first two Y-Wings it targets, then 7 or 8 into the other two, before they shoot, and none of them will get any defence dice.

It's strong, but eventually it'll run into a Sensor Jammin' ship. Whisper can solo four TLT Ys.

Whisper with SJ maybe. But not without.

Soontir with auto though. Dodges for days.

I have been flying swarms, rebel and imperial for a long time. The best kind of ship to play against are agility 0-1 ships... bring it. (I do however **** my pants versus a genius that manages to creep an ace past my initial blockade.)

There is no strongest list. This list does however perform well against lists that have one strong ace and some jousters or lists with relative few red attack dice. These are currently very common.

Just wait for the cheap named Tie swarms list to smash though the current meta, the crackshot swarm was just an example but stronger versions will pop up and pretty much hardcounter Y's. Don't get me wrong 4 TLT's are currently very strong in this meta.

I think the main defining trait of the meta were in at the moment is variety. There are literally tons of lists which are viable and this has never really been he case before.

Quad TLT, whilst powerful, is a one trick pony. You have 4 identical ships so what you beat you beat convincingly, but against hard counters you have absolutely no answer to them.

Accordingly, I don't think quad TLT has the versatility to be considered the best list in the current meta. It's strong, but we are really entering the age where your competitive list needs to be able to take all comers. No longer can you bank on knowing what 80% of the field will be at a premier event.

TLT is powerful, but I'm of the opinion less is more and strongly beleive 2 TLTS plus an ace who shores up thier weakness (IG88B for example) is much stronger than a quad TLT list

Quad TLT is imo a easy list if you want to go 3-1 or 3-2 (depending on the number of rounds).

However it's very hard or at least luck dependant that you get perfect matchups each round to go for a 4-0 victory.

On the other hand, chances are quite slim that you'll go much worse than 2-2, since the list counters a lot of stuff. Also, in case you lose in early rounds, chances are high that you'll get paired against "non optimal" lists, which you simply murder with quad TLT.

Speaking for myself I see quad TLT as a "treshold" I have to pass with my lists whenever I build a new one. The nice thing here is, that if you can beat one quad TLT player, you can probably beat them all. The list is really straight forward and has almost no potential to outplay something - it just rolls a lot of dice.

To get my point clear - e.g. a guy playing Soontir probably get better and better the more often he plays him. He has a lot of Options available and each of them affect your game. So as a consequence someone who is much more experienced with Soontir or the game itself, will quite sure outplay someone who only played Soontir a few games or is new to the game.

Now when you face these two guys at a tournament the experienced players Soontir will be much harder to get and take down, while you maybe won't have problems gunning the other one down.

Getting back to quad TLT, that's not the case here. As soon someone realised how he has to fly to stay in range 3 as long as possible and when to either take focus or targelock (aka common knowledge of X-Wing), he probably already knows 95% of the list. Since they're so straightforward there's simply not much room for improvement ... which is a good thing in case you're not a so great pilot, but probably a bad thing when you got a few games under your belt and want to outplay your opponents.

One thing to note why quad TLT is ranked so high at Mini Ranker is that there is no variation. For the same reason BBBBZ was on top there for a long time.

Heaver's Worlds list is ranked second, but there are a ton of variation options availble for the list. I've seen triple Z-95, R5-P9 on Poe for an iniative bid in the mirror, Miranda instead of the Y and the Z and so forth. So all these lists, even though they may play very very similar won't be ranked as high as quad TLT, just for the reason that there's no point at all to change something at that list.

Getting b2t, no, quad TLT isn't the strongest list around, simply because there are some lists around that counter it pretty easily. Dual-Aggressor for example don't have many trouble killing them. Same goes to lists that bring ~2 TLT and some sort of aces, like Heaver's list. Poe and Corran counter them pretty well, especially when combinet with your own TLT's.

According to this site it is: http://xwing.miniranker.com/

Luke:

"Is quad TLT stronger?"

Yoda:

"No, no, no. Quicker, easier, more seductive."

Luke:

But how am I to know the good side from the bad?" Yoda: "You will know... when you are calm, at peace, passive."

It's a great list to get fairly average players into cuts. It is a poor list for getting them wins at competitive events.

Luke:

"Is quad TLT stronger?"

Yoda:

"No, no, no. Quicker, easier, more seductive."

Luke:

But how am I to know the good side from the bad?" Yoda: "You will know... when you are calm, at peace, passive."

Pretty much this. My feeling is that the quad TLT is probably the strongest easy-to-fly list. You don't have to do as much work or build as much skill to fly it, all you really need is to avoid rocks and try to cover your donut holes. Whereas, e.g. a standard Super Soontir can, well-flown, entirely demolish a quad-TLT list solo, but flown badly can just be torn apart by 24 dice per round.

I don't think a quad-TLT is that easy to fly, actually, though my concern about it is more the way it splashes well into lists.

I think that the strongest, most perfect list in the game is the list your opponent is flying.

That way I'll never make the mistake of underestimating my opponents ships.

:lol:

Quad TLT won my FLGS's Store Championship.

I think you'd be better off with Danger Zone. Nothing really hard counters it unless you go extreme with Sensor Jammer and specifically hard counter it. No croissants to exploit, you can use the threat of Tactician to force aces to go where you want.