The shield gauntlet is in the new Guardian sourcebook, Keeping the Peace, and it allows the user to use the Reflect talent as if they had a lightsaber. It's even a Brawl weapon, if I recall right.

Ah - Thanks! I guess that answers my question. I haven't picked up that one yet.

Still curious if anyone allows for other kinds of "flavor" though. It sounds like FFG have decided that it's not game breaking to use something else.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Darth_Vader%27s_armor

On his hands he wore black gloves, ^[5] the right glove being a Mandalorian crushgaunt fitted around one of Lord Kaan's indestructible Sith amulets , and modified to include grip-augmentation circuitry. ^{[16] [10]} The gloves, or more accurately gauntlets, were also made of a Micronized Mandalorian iron weave to protect Vader against glancing lightsaber blows during the patient's physical therapy sparring sessions, as well as deflecting a direct hit from a blaster bolt.

I don't really see why a Force Monk should be able to swat away Blaster bolts with his bare hands. That's just not what they do. If that were something Force users could do on a regular basis, why did they bother inventing Lightsabers all those ages ago?

Yes, we see Vader do it... with an armored gauntlet. Which apparently was made out of magical materials and stuff. And yes, we see Yoda do it to Dooku's Force Lightning, but... he's Yoda.

If anything, I'd say what you're looking for is a thoroughly upgraded Protect power. Unless you want to go the technical route with the Shield Gauntlet.

I wouldn't allow a force monk to use Reflect with his bare hands. However, if you're looking for a narrative way to block blaster bolts with your bare hands, the Protect force power with a narrative spin could easily handle such a thing. I'm not sure if that interests you though.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Darth_Vader's_armor

On his hands he wore black gloves,[/size] ^[5] the right glove being a [/size] Mandalorian [/size] crushgaunt fitted around one of [/size] Lord [/size] Kaan's indestructible [/size] Sith amulets , and modified to include grip-augmentation circuitry.[/size] ^{[16] [10]} The gloves, or more accurately gauntlets, were also made of a Micronized Mandalorian iron weave to protect Vader against glancing lightsaber blows during the patient's physical therapy sparring sessions, as well as deflecting a direct hit from a blaster bolt.[/size]

I don't really see why a Force Monk should be able to swat away Blaster bolts with his bare hands. That's just not what they do. If that were something Force users could do on a regular basis, why did they bother inventing Lightsabers all those ages ago?

Yes, we see Vader do it... with an armored gauntlet. Which apparently was made out of magical materials and stuff. And yes, we see Yoda do it to Dooku's Force Lightning, but... he's Yoda.

If anything, I'd say what you're looking for is a thoroughly upgraded Protect power. Unless you want to go the technical route with the Shield Gauntlet.

I wouldn't allow a force monk to use Reflect with his bare hands. However, if you're looking for a narrative way to block blaster bolts with your bare hands, the Protect force power with a narrative spin could easily handle such a thing. I'm not sure if that interests you though.

The guy isn't using bare hands... He is using cortosis gauntlets... Those are two very different things...

I'm not sure I would allow it without special equipment. The cortosis gauntlets have their function, which is a good one, and I wouldn't give it the ability to Reflect. I think the trick Nomi pulls off is just an application of the Protect power, of which the mastery upgrade allows the user to return nullified attacks to sender.

I wouldn't allow a force monk to use Reflect with his bare hands. However, if you're looking for a narrative way to block blaster bolts with your bare hands, the Protect force power with a narrative spin could easily handle such a thing. I'm not sure if that interests you though.

The guy isn't using bare hands... He is using cortosis gauntlets... Those are two very different things...

He also specifically mentioned Reflect without any items at all, aka bare-handed.

As far as I know Cortosis it doesn't reflect, it simply nullifies. Which is why lightsabers short-out instead of rebounding when they strike pure Cortosis. Though since much of the actual info on Cortosis is EU/Legends material, you could make an argument that it might be reflective in nature.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Darth_Vader%27s_armor

On his hands he wore black gloves, ^[5] the right glove being a Mandalorian crushgaunt fitted around one of Lord Kaan's indestructible Sith amulets , and modified to include grip-augmentation circuitry. ^{[16] [10]} The gloves, or more accurately gauntlets, were also made of a Micronized Mandalorian iron weave to protect Vader against glancing lightsaber blows during the patient's physical therapy sparring sessions, as well as deflecting a direct hit from a blaster bolt.

I don't really see why a Force Monk should be able to swat away Blaster bolts with his bare hands. That's just not what they do. If that were something Force users could do on a regular basis, why did they bother inventing Lightsabers all those ages ago?

Yes, we see Vader do it... with an armored gauntlet. Which apparently was made out of magical materials and stuff. And yes, we see Yoda do it to Dooku's Force Lightning, but... he's Yoda.

If anything, I'd say what you're looking for is a thoroughly upgraded Protect power. Unless you want to go the technical route with the Shield Gauntlet.

If you want to stop blaster bolts with your bare hands, then you'd need the Protect power. That's pretty much how Yoda stonewalled various Force lightning attacks against in the prequels. And it's the sort of thing that is the domain of highly skilled Force users.

Vader had an EU/Legends ascended fan-**** about how he stopped Han's blaster fire in ESB about a specially-made gauntlet, and as Blackbird888 noted there's a piece of gear whose main purpose is to allow the usage of Reflect without requiring a lightsaber.

Part of Reflect's usefulness (given how prevalent ranged attacks are in this setting) is balanced not only by the strain cost but also the fact you typically need a highly-visible weapon in order to use it.

The only other option I'd consider is something akin to a Signature Ability specifically devoted to enabling Reflect to be used without a weapon, but that's stepping on Protect's toes far too much for my liking.

On his hands he wore black gloves, ^[5] the right glove being a Mandalorian crushgaunt fitted around one of Lord Kaan's indestructible Sith amulets , and modified to include grip-augmentation circuitry. ^{[16] [10]} The gloves, or more accurately gauntlets, were also made of a Micronized Mandalorian iron weave to protect Vader against glancing lightsaber blows during the patient's physical therapy sparring sessions, as well as deflecting a direct hit from a blaster bolt.

This garbage right here is one of the reasons I'm not upset why Disney swept aside the EU.

All the base level of Reflect does is let a player to voluntarily take strain to reduce damage from a ranged attack. In a narrative game, I can't think of a talent more appropriate for a Force monk (Teras Kasi?): using one's attunement with the Force to turn a solid hit into a glancing blow. So using "Reflect" with a Force monk seems perfectly legit to me. Improved Reflect, on the other hand, doesn't make a whole lot of sense (unless you're accepting that cortosis gauntlets can do this OR using that brawl weapon from Keeping the Peace, both of which I think are reasonable) -- however, you can make a quick house rule to fix this: they can redirect the blast to any target they're engaged with (rather than medium range). Now you have a Force-fueled Jackie Chan maneuver that just feels altogether awesome.

On his hands he wore black gloves, ^[5] the right glove being a Mandalorian crushgaunt fitted around one of Lord Kaan's indestructible Sith amulets , and modified to include grip-augmentation circuitry. ^{[16] [10]} The gloves, or more accurately gauntlets, were also made of a Micronized Mandalorian iron weave to protect Vader against glancing lightsaber blows during the patient's physical therapy sparring sessions, as well as deflecting a direct hit from a blaster bolt.

This garbage right here is one of the reasons I'm not upset why Disney swept aside the EU.

I'll bet you're a big fan of the new Star Trek movies too?

Who needs all that lore and backstory. Botany Bay, what? Just make sure Eggs Benedict Cumberbund says "My name is Khan" as if the characters are supposed to care.

Who needs all that technobabble. The warp engines work b/c Kirk climbed inside and kicked them a few times.

All the base level of Reflect does is let a player to voluntarily take strain to reduce damage from a ranged attack. In a narrative game, I can't think of a talent more appropriate for a Force monk (Teras Kasi?): using one's attunement with the Force to turn a solid hit into a glancing blow. So using "Reflect" with a Force monk seems perfectly legit to me. Improved Reflect, on the other hand, doesn't make a whole lot of sense (unless you're accepting that cortosis gauntlets can do this OR using that brawl weapon from Keeping the Peace, both of which I think are reasonable) -- however, you can make a quick house rule to fix this: they can redirect the blast to any target they're engaged with (rather than medium range). Now you have a Force-fueled Jackie Chan maneuver that just feels altogether awesome.

Which as noted above is the domain of the Protect power.

While this system is at it's core a narrative system, there are checks and balances to keep the PCs on a generally even playing field. And as I cited above, Reflect is balanced by the fact it requires a specific category of weapon to use, one that narratively can draw a lot of unwanted heat on the PC if used openly.

Even in the d20 games, being able to deflect blaster fire without a lightsaber was a high-level ability, and not something that any old Force user could attempt no matter how "cool" or "exotic" their background was.

Honestly, just take Sense for the defensive Control Upgrade, and narrate that any blaster shot that misses that person got reflected away. Much simpler, and not encroaching munchkin territory the way that enabling Reflect bare-handed just because a special snowflake PC has a special snowflake background.

Okay, first, OP stated that he's not changing the accidental ruling he made before and specifically requested ways to make it work.

Reflect is balanced by the fact that you have to purchase it, it costs strain to use, and you have to have reached a point where you've paid for an expensive piece of equipment, not the narrative effects of wielding a lightsaber in public. Those are just icing on the cake, because there's a lot of narrative baggage associated with getting and owning a lightsaber, to be sure, but not fundamentally part of the "balance equation." In fact, it pretty clear that the only part of using a lightsaber that could possibly need balancing narratively are its offensive capabilities, which the player in question is decidedly not benefiting from.

It certainly doesn't even remotely broach the territory of munchkinism to make an accommodation for a player doing something you want to encourage, especially when they've chosen a specifically inferior combat path because they enjoy the story. Calling it so is just absurd and unnecessary (as is the whole "snowflake" pejorative).

Except that the talent description specifically calls for a lightsaber weapon to be used, and the description of the shield gauntlet says it can be used with the Reflect talent as if it was a lightsaber weapon. If Reflect was intended to be used with anything, then the shield gauntlet is an exception to a rule that doesn't actually exist.

It would also be better than Protect in multiple ways, as it's generally cheaper to access, doesn't require a skill check, doesn't require a destiny point, among others.

Okay, first, OP stated that he's not changing the accidental ruling he made before and specifically requested ways to make it work.

Reflect is balanced by the fact that you have to purchase it, it costs strain to use, and you have to have reached a point where you've paid for an expensive piece of equipment, not the narrative effects of wielding a lightsaber in public. Those are just icing on the cake, because there's a lot of narrative baggage associated with getting and owning a lightsaber, to be sure, but not fundamentally part of the "balance equation." In fact, it pretty clear that the only part of using a lightsaber that could possibly need balancing narratively are its offensive capabilities, which the player in question is decidedly not benefiting from.

It certainly doesn't even remotely broach the territory of munchkinism to make an accommodation for a player doing something you want to encourage, especially when they've chosen a specifically inferior combat path because they enjoy the story. Calling it so is just absurd and unnecessary (as is the whole "snowflake" pejorative).

Umm, no? Reflect is balanced by the fact that you have to purchase it, it costs Strain to use, and you have to have a Lightsaber in hand. Whether that Lightsaber is blue, green, transparent, or prismatic. You need an energy sword to counter the energy bolt being fired at you. You can't do that with flesh and bone, no matter how strong your Kung Fu.

Gunslingers can't point their finger and yell "Bang!" Just b/c they've accumulated enough XP to purchase Natural Marksman, doesn't mean they can skip actually wielding a Blaster.

When a player says "I want to do something totally unique, and I want to be extra awesome because of it" that's pretty much the definition of Special Snowflake .

I suggest setting up an adventure for your player to "upgrade" his cortosis gauntlets to gain the ability reflect like a lightsaber, like a shield gauntlet. Make it a cool force talisman artifact thingy that counts as an attachment that takes up 1 hardpoint. Give it a mod or two if you're feeling plucky.

End result: Player has cortosis gauntlets they can use to go "monk style" on their enemies. Said gauntlets can reflect blaster bolts.

Side Issue: Parry requires a Melee or Lightsaber weapon. Do you let this player parry blows with his Brawl weapon? Personally, I allow Parry to be used if you're wielding certain Brawl weapons, like Vamblades (they're blades!) But not things like brass knuckles or blast knuckles or stun gloves. You could use the other HP if you felt it was necessary, or just let it fly. It doesn't sound like this character is unbalancing your game.

As for reflecting with bare hands? Protect, and so far only Protect.

Except that the talent description specifically calls for a lightsaber weapon to be used, and the description of the shield gauntlet says it can be used with the Reflect talent as if it was a lightsaber weapon. If Reflect was intended to be used with anything, then the shield gauntlet is an exception to a rule that doesn't actually exist.

It would also be better than Protect in multiple ways, as it's generally cheaper to access, doesn't require a skill check, doesn't require a destiny point, among others.

Exactly: the presence of the shield gauntlet suggests that "using the lightsaber" is not a significant factor in terms of "balancing" the weapon (and we've already established that we should always consider the narrative impact of removing the "using the lightsaber in public" requirement -- which absolutely is significant). I neither stated nor implied that Reflect was intended to be used with anything, and that's completely irrelevant to the question wittybanter posed. And I think we can all agree that Reflect is better than Protect in all the way Reflect is better than Protect.

The shield gauntlet exists as a solitary exception to the rule of Reflect calling out a lightsaber, and even then it's not a common everyday item. From playtesting Keeping the Peace, there was concern amidst my group of playtesters about the shield gauntlet being problematic simply for allowing the exception to the "lightsabers only!" requirement of Reflect. There were elements in the playtest that were far more problematic in that regard, but they didn't make it to the final product.

Werewyvernx brings up another valid point: Do you allow this space kung fu monk to use Parry with just Brawl? Parry itself denotes that only weapons in the Melee or Lightsaber category qualify, though he does permit some sensible exceptions (such as vamblades). After all, if this yutz can stop blaster bolts with his bare hands, what's stopping him from stopping any other attack that way? Both Parry and Reflect were built with the idea that a weapon of some type is required in order to use those talents.

It's starting to sound more and more like this particular character is better suited for a superhero RPG or one where kung fu schticks like catching bullets is par for the course. In which case, might I suggest Feng Shui, in particularly the 2nd edition? It's a pretty solid RPG that's built around the concept of kung fu experts being able to pull of crazy stunts from the get-go.

Umm, no? Reflect is balanced by the fact that you have to purchase it, it costs Strain to use, and you have to have a Lightsaber in hand. Whether that Lightsaber is blue, green, transparent, or prismatic. You need an energy sword to counter the energy bolt being fired at you. You can't do that with flesh and bone, no matter how strong your Kung Fu.

It's not balanced by using the lightsaber, otherwise we wouldn't have shield guantlets. It definitely requires it, which we can all see. I never said it's something you can do with flesh and blood, but rather that the (incorrect) mechanics that wittybanter is already using can be explained in an alternative way, and the otherwise impossible-sounding improvements can be brought in line with minor adjustments, which is what he asked for.

Gunslingers can't point their finger and yell "Bang!" Just b/c they've accumulated enough XP to purchase Natural Marksman, doesn't mean they can skip actually wielding a Blaster.

Absolutely! Because they can't explain how their fingers produce blaster bolts. But you can explain how a Force user trades wound damage for strain without a piece of equipment. That's super easy and well within the bounds of the canon. Well, Legends, anyway.

When a player says "I want to do something totally unique, and I want to be extra awesome because of it" that's pretty much the definition of Special Snowflake .

Except that's not what the player is asking, it's not even the player asking here on the forum, and to just assume that a player wants to be a snowflake because they saw something they liked and went with it is demeaning and completely irrelevant to the question this thread is supposed to answer!

Not to mention that this is the opposite of being extra awesome: it is empirically inferior. The player deliberately made himself less effective to play a character concept he liked that's pretty well-supported in Legends, at least.

This GM is trying to make it so the player doesn't have to make a bunch of worthless upgrades to access the rest of his tree. I merely suggested a slightly weaker version that fits in the setting.

Sorry to break it to you FlashbackJon, but that is exactly what the player is asking for. They are asking for a way to ignore the rules as written simply because they feel entitled to it because they've got a "special background that makes them super-special and thus able to do things no other character can do!"

Sounds like the player would be better off picking a different specialization than trying to co-opt one of the Lightsaber Form specs. Or if he's got Protector, he doesn't have to purchase the one rank of Reflect at all, and can probably ignore it completely unless he's dead-set on Circle of Defense. Which case, paying for Reflect is simply a tax on an incredibly useful defensive talent.

Sorry to break it to you FlashbackJon, but that is exactly what the player is asking for. They are asking for a way to ignore the rules as written simply because they feel entitled to it because they've got a "special background that makes them super-special and thus able to do things no other character can do!"

Nope. Please check the original post. They misread the rules, and the GM would prefer to leave the ruling in place with minor house rules. It's not even remotely what you're suggesting it is. The player isn't even asking for anything in this situation. This whole thread (not you specifically) got caught up in demeaning this random player because they don't like his character concept and it's totally irrelevant to the question.

EDIT: Also, you guys keep acting like "space kung fu monk" is totally ridiculous in Star Wars when it's basically been a part of it for as long as the EU has existed. It doesn't even make the needle move on the Weird-Out-of-Genre-Things-That-Happen-In-Star-Wars-O-Meter.

Sounds like the player would be better off picking a different specialization than trying to co-opt one of the Lightsaber Form specs. Or if he's got Protector, he doesn't have to purchase the one rank of Reflect at all, and can probably ignore it completely unless he's dead-set on Circle of Defense. Which case, paying for Reflect is simply a tax on an incredibly useful defensive talent.

This is absolutely true and I completely agree (I love Protector, in fact -- and I definitely think picking a non-lightsaber tree would be better), although to be clear: we're agreeing here that the player is choosing to be less powerful/effective/optimized in order to fit their character concept.

Just to reiterate:

• I never said anything about stopping or reflecting blaster bolts with your bare hands.
• It is super important to address the lack of lightsaber narratively. If the whole party has acquired lightsabers, including the brawler, this is virtually a non-issue. The one major exception (he can "reflect" without brandishing a highly illegal weapon) can be solved by simply making it as conspicuous as regular Force power usage. When this guy avoids blaster bolts, he moves like Force speed, and evokes the same level of suspicion as a regular guy wielding a Jedi weapon. If the party hasn't acquired lightsabers, it requires more careful consideration.
• What OP is asking can be accomplished with minor house-ruling, without affecting game balance (except to bring this one player up to slightly below a regular lightsaber user), without straying into the domain of other powers (like Protect), and staying within Legends-supported material. I didn't actually address parry but the same could be done there, if the GM felt so inclined.

EDIT2: New option: in the player's tree, replace Parry with Dodge and Reflect with Side Step. It's not the same effect but it has similar feel, although I admit I don't know whether Reflect or Side Step is technically more "powerful." I'm also not sure whether altering a talent requirement or altering a talent tree is a bigger offense to the One True Way to play this game, someone will have to let me know how that rates.

I think what OP is actually asking is if anybody has house ruled that Reflect can be used without a lightsaber, citing Vader in ESB. My answer to that is no, I would not do. That application would clearly fall under Protect. To me, at least.

If the issue is explaining how the PC can Reflect with cortosis gauntlets (which I don't think is the issue at hand, no pun intended), then maybe in their game universe that's just what cortosis does, or maybe the GM can retroactively give him a shield gauntlet, or the PC can lose a gauntlet and the GM allows him to get his hands (again, no pun intended) on a shield gauntlet and then they never talk about the error ruling again.

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