Main drawback is vs TLTs. Man, that's the matchup where Vader misses EU. Otherwise, I'd say VI/ATC Vader is right up there with the Baron as one of the Empire's most well-priced ships.

Fixed.

Gunner on a Phantom? Four dice isn't really in the habit of missing, and it's pretty expensive insurance.

Gunner on a Phantom? Four dice isn't really in the habit of missing, and it's pretty expensive insurance.

You've never had to face a Soontir, have you.

Sometimes you miss, it happens often. Sometimes you roll 2 blanks 2 focuses and let it miss on purpose so that next shot you can use the FCS target lock.

It guarantees that you hit so you get your defensive focus from Whisper's ability. So paying that extra 2 points for gunner not only gives you insane offense, but also functions as Recon Specialist.

Plus, dat Imperial alt art gunner tho

Gunner on a Phantom? Four dice isn't really in the habit of missing, and it's pretty expensive insurance.

Take an Evade -> roll your unmodified Attack for 2 hits average | If evaded/miss entirely -> get a TL -> use Gunner with the Target Lock from FCS toattack again, only stronger this time -> Hit? get a Focus token and sit on 2-3 tokens for defense and laugh.

Profit.

Gunner on a Phantom? Four dice isn't really in the habit of missing, and it's pretty expensive insurance.

I've had this thought before and then I eventually try Whisper without gunner and end up instantly regretting it. I've even had the added pleasure of missing up a 4 dice follow up shot with a Target Lock... multiple times.

Take an Evade -> roll your unmodified Attack for 2 hits average | If evaded/miss entirely -> get a TL -> use Gunner with the Target Lock from FCS toattack again, only stronger this time -> Hit? get a Focus token and sit on 2-3 tokens for defense and laugh.

Profit.

My go to move! And those beautiful rounds you end out of arc of everything and can take a focus? It's a pretty special moment.

I'd run both naked with just an academy TIE as a blocker.

71 points should guarantee that I get initiative.

(Sorry, work is a little slow right now lol)

last year i thought 98 would be safe and have several horn dash builds that all came in at 97

last year i thought 98 would be safe and have several horn dash builds that all came in at 97

but then you remembered you had two PS9 aces and laughed in his face?

I played Soontir and three Tempests in a tournament a couple of weeks ago.

Soontir moved last in a grand total of one game out of five. In one game he was actually moving THIRD (behind VI Vader and VI Carnor). PS 10 Poe was friggin' EVERYWHERE. So yeah, I'd feel pretty safe in my initiative bid. But I wouldn't feel safe.

The Poe Dawn is upon us. I was actually planning on running him alongside red ace and tarn at an upcoming tourament, but I'm not sure I can add yet another list to The Dameroning.

The Poe Dawn is upon us. I was actually planning on running him alongside red ace and tarn at an upcoming tourament, but I'm not sure I can add yet another list to The Dameroning.

Soontir is still better imo.

Last year I had a 96 point build with both Phantoms, and added Night Beast in there for blocking and economy. It worked great! My regionals build last year was also Fel/Whisper/2x academy pilots. Blockers are GREAT additions to this list, setup the glass cannons to hit a helluva lot harder. And in both cases, if they aren't going to be doing anything you can fly them away from all the action.

In the Echo/Whisper/NB build, I went up against a 4bz list and just kept Night beast away from all the action. It really messes with someone who wants to kill one ship and run if they always have to contend with your aces!

last year i thought 98 would be safe and have several horn dash builds that all came in at 97

but then you remembered you had two PS9 aces and laughed in his face?

not when every horn had vi on him

Back to the topic, 97-98 will pretty much guarantee you initiative these days as people aren't bidding on it now that Whisper isn't fashionable anymore.

I never feel safe unless I have my PS11 Vader, but that's a bad side effect of flying him for so long. Initiative bid is no match for PS11.

with all the stress builds out now I can understand people not wanting to fly whisper

with all the stress builds out now I can understand people not wanting to fly whisper

She's still pretty good though, saw her in a Palp/Soontir list that won a tournament recently.

The Poe Dawn is upon us. I was actually planning on running him alongside red ace and tarn at an upcoming tourament, but I'm not sure I can add yet another list to The Dameroning.

Soontir is still better imo.

Seconding this. I chased VI Poe around the board with Super Soontir for like an hour yesterday evening it was hilarious. I eventually took a hard 1 through a debris field whilst stressed to get the extra focus from the extra stress for the match. I would have been so screwed if I hadn't killed him.

I always bring the aforementioned 35 point Vader when I can, unless I'm trying a cheeky soontir/Whisper/Vader list.

Once I get better at flying FOs I might make the jump, but my one gam with me flying a swarm of them saw me get crushed.

I absolutely love Soontir & Gunner Whisper, but I'm horrified about getting matched up against a doom shuttle, or worse a Decimator with Vader.

Have you ever flown against those? Any advice, or tactics? Only thing I could see, is either trying to constantly bump, kill something & run. Or go all out & try to hit it as hard as possible before it kills both of your fighters.

last year i thought 98 would be safe and have several horn dash builds that all came in at 97

but then you remembered you had two PS9 aces and laughed in his face?

not when every horn had vi on him

Horn with VI is a Horn that has no PTL

*laughs in binary*

I love such kHorns!

I'd switch crew on Whisper, upgrade the 3rd ship to Omega Leader and forget the bid.

If you're flying Soontir and Whisper, then initiative is a catch-22 for your opponent. If he gives it to you, Whisper is now shooting and cloaking first. If he takes it to deny that, Soontir now moves last.

You're evil man. Pure evil.

I absolutely love Soontir & Gunner Whisper, but I'm horrified about getting matched up against a doom shuttle, or worse a Decimator with Vader.

Have you ever flown against those? Any advice, or tactics? Only thing I could see, is either trying to constantly bump, kill something & run. Or go all out & try to hit it as hard as possible before it kills both of your fighters.

It is a hard-counter.

So accept that you are going to lose a ship early and target the Deci/Shuttle.

If it fails to kill you (i.e. misses, but still uses Vader) then it simply dies faster.

Or, if you have expendable ships, then feed them to the Decimator/Shuttle first to soften it up.

I absolutely love Soontir & Gunner Whisper, but I'm horrified about getting matched up against a doom shuttle, or worse a Decimator with Vader.

Have you ever flown against those? Any advice, or tactics? Only thing I could see, is either trying to constantly bump, kill something & run. Or go all out & try to hit it as hard as possible before it kills both of your fighters.

It is a hard-counter.

So accept that you are going to lose a ship early and target the Deci/Shuttle.

If it fails to kill you (i.e. misses, but still uses Vader) then it simply dies faster.

Or, if you have expendable ships, then feed them to the Decimator/Shuttle first to soften it up.

It's impossible to beat Decivader with this list unless they get a bad run of luck and can't hit with their attack dice or make mistakes and land on rocks. Vadershuttle on the other hand is a lot easier as you just need to stay out of arc.

I absolutely love Soontir & Gunner Whisper, but I'm horrified about getting matched up against a doom shuttle, or worse a Decimator with Vader.

Have you ever flown against those? Any advice, or tactics? Only thing I could see, is either trying to constantly bump, kill something & run. Or go all out & try to hit it as hard as possible before it kills both of your fighters.

It is a hard-counter.

So accept that you are going to lose a ship early and target the Deci/Shuttle.

If it fails to kill you (i.e. misses, but still uses Vader) then it simply dies faster.

Or, if you have expendable ships, then feed them to the Decimator/Shuttle first to soften it up.

It's impossible to beat Decivader with this list unless they get a bad run of luck and can't hit with their attack dice or make mistakes and land on rocks. Vadershuttle on the other hand is a lot easier as you just need to stay out of arc.

Decivader is very, very tough for this list. You either have to accept not killing the Decimator and just run away from it the entire match whilst trying to kill off its ace and maybe chip it down to half hull for a time-victory, or go all out and hope to trade one of your 3 ships for killing it in two rounds; if it's VI Chiraneau this is even harder, of course, due to it shooting first. If you get a lucky crit (Blinded Pilot particularly) or you can block it on an asteroid you stand a chance but the latter at least takes bad flying on its part as well as good flying on yours.