So, ANH had too little time on Alderaan, there were too many ewoks, the prequels all suck.

What did you like about Star Wars again, that one flyby of the Falcon?

So, ANH had too little time on Alderaan, there were too many ewoks, the prequels all suck.

What did you like about Star Wars again, that one flyby of the Falcon?

Just for starters.

A perfect love story tragedy dealing with and intertwining with the complex fall of a galactic nation, and fall of a religion/warrior knights.

If you describe anything that happened between Episode 1 - 3 as a perfect love story, I'm terrified of what your idea of love is. Anakin goes from child with a crush, to creepy obsessed stalker that takes Padme's disinterest as exciting? Then gets whiny about it. It's okay though, because she falls for him after he gently caresses her arm and calls her "M'lady" a couple dozen times. Honestly, that love story is such a bad example to any young person on how you should treat other people, especially people you like then Lucas just writes Padme as into it, so it seems okay. Then Padme loses all semblance of character in the third episode and is just there to be pretty a pregnant.

I'm happy the Clone Wars cartoon came along and made Anakin a more tolerable character with real emotional range, an actual appreciation for Obiwan and kind of a normal love story involving Padme.

Wait, the story between R2-D2 and C3p0's life long friendship budding is pretty close to a good love story.

Y'know, as I've slowly worked my way through watching The Clone Wars, it's dawned on me that not only were Episodes I-III about the fall of Anakin, they were also about the fall of the Republic but more importantly the fall of the Jedi, which is perhaps the most saddening. They were once the guardians of Peace and Justice in the galaxy. But then they were shown to be passively accepting of slavery, liars, manipulators, puppeteers, and then soldiers before they were all dead. That's quite a fall.

Jedi are shown to be quite incompetent generals with little or no regard for the men under their command. They couldn't form a coherent battle plan if it was given to them in step-by-step instructions, and can't win a fight without losing at least a third of their cruisers and 50% of their troopers, even when they have all the advantages. What's the first big battle we see them leading the clones in? Geonosia, right? And what do they do? First, they all gather together in a big circle in the middle of an arena, making it easy for the battle droids to surround and slaughter them. Then, once the survivors are rescued by the Clones, they all charge straight at the enemy guns blazing with no thought of cover or maneuver. And this is repeated throughout the movies and The Clone Wars. I'd even venture to say the Jedi care less for the clones than the Separatists care for their battle droids. They can always grow more, right? Except for the occasional hiccup like Ninety-Nine and his ilk.

And then the Jedi couldn't even tell that Palpatine, a man they talk to on a regular basis, was a Sith. Plapatine manipulated them so thoroughly and so well that they basically gave him his Emperorship, and three out of four of them died in a second when they tried to arrest him. Apparently they're only good at breaking droids and dying.

While I can't really watch the prequels with any enthusiasm, I do appreciate that they set up this sort of history for the universe and gave such a rich background to draw from in the future makes them worthy accomplishments. Granted, it took 6 seasons of The Clone Wars to really set the focus and fix Anakin, but the prequels gave us the Cliff's Notes of the real story behind Star Wars.

"Wars not make one great". Oh is that so Yoda? Why do you command soldiers and wield a lethal weapon then?

Well that isn't entirely unreasonable, the fall of his order probably made him rethink a lot of things.

Y'know, as I've slowly worked my way through watching The Clone Wars, it's dawned on me that not only were Episodes I-III about the fall of Anakin, they were also about the fall of the Republic but more importantly the fall of the Jedi, which is perhaps the most saddening. They were once the guardians of Peace and Justice in the galaxy. But then they were shown to be passively accepting of slavery, liars, manipulators, puppeteers, and then soldiers before they were all dead. That's quite a fall.

Jedi are shown to be quite incompetent generals with little or no regard for the men under their command. They couldn't form a coherent battle plan if it was given to them in step-by-step instructions, and can't win a fight without losing at least a third of their cruisers and 50% of their troopers, even when they have all the advantages. What's the first big battle we see them leading the clones in? Geonosia, right? And what do they do? First, they all gather together in a big circle in the middle of an arena, making it easy for the battle droids to surround and slaughter them. Then, once the survivors are rescued by the Clones, they all charge straight at the enemy guns blazing with no thought of cover or maneuver. And this is repeated throughout the movies and The Clone Wars. I'd even venture to say the Jedi care less for the clones than the Separatists care for their battle droids. They can always grow more, right? Except for the occasional hiccup like Ninety-Nine and his ilk.

And then the Jedi couldn't even tell that Palpatine, a man they talk to on a regular basis, was a Sith. Plapatine manipulated them so thoroughly and so well that they basically gave him his Emperorship, and three out of four of them died in a second when they tried to arrest him. Apparently they're only good at breaking droids and dying.

While I can't really watch the prequels with any enthusiasm, I do appreciate that they set up this sort of history for the universe and gave such a rich background to draw from in the future makes them worthy accomplishments. Granted, it took 6 seasons of The Clone Wars to really set the focus and fix Anakin, but the prequels gave us the Cliff's Notes of the real story behind Star Wars.

I have a feeling that your analysis here is in spite of the filmmakers efforts, not because of them.

The ethics of cloning disposable human lives is never even brought up, not even in passing. The Jedi being A-OK with slavers, bounty hunters etc. is more due to lazy writing than making a statement about the slow collapse of society.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love it if your analysis were true, but I think the Jedi sucking as generals is more to create action scenes and CGI spaceship explosions than to make a point about how the Jedi order has fallen from grace.

"Wars not make one great". Oh is that so Yoda? Why do you command soldiers and wield a lethal weapon then?

Well that isn't entirely unreasonable, the fall of his order probably made him rethink a lot of things.

What about "This weapon is your life "? Or the seizure inducing yet somehow mindbogglingly boring arena fight?

Y'know, as I've slowly worked my way through watching The Clone Wars, it's dawned on me that not only were Episodes I-III about the fall of Anakin, they were also about the fall of the Republic but more importantly the fall of the Jedi, which is perhaps the most saddening. They were once the guardians of Peace and Justice in the galaxy. But then they were shown to be passively accepting of slavery, liars, manipulators, puppeteers, and then soldiers before they were all dead. That's quite a fall.

Jedi are shown to be quite incompetent generals with little or no regard for the men under their command. They couldn't form a coherent battle plan if it was given to them in step-by-step instructions, and can't win a fight without losing at least a third of their cruisers and 50% of their troopers, even when they have all the advantages. What's the first big battle we see them leading the clones in? Geonosia, right? And what do they do? First, they all gather together in a big circle in the middle of an arena, making it easy for the battle droids to surround and slaughter them. Then, once the survivors are rescued by the Clones, they all charge straight at the enemy guns blazing with no thought of cover or maneuver. And this is repeated throughout the movies and The Clone Wars. I'd even venture to say the Jedi care less for the clones than the Separatists care for their battle droids. They can always grow more, right? Except for the occasional hiccup like Ninety-Nine and his ilk.

And then the Jedi couldn't even tell that Palpatine, a man they talk to on a regular basis, was a Sith. Plapatine manipulated them so thoroughly and so well that they basically gave him his Emperorship, and three out of four of them died in a second when they tried to arrest him. Apparently they're only good at breaking droids and dying.

While I can't really watch the prequels with any enthusiasm, I do appreciate that they set up this sort of history for the universe and gave such a rich background to draw from in the future makes them worthy accomplishments. Granted, it took 6 seasons of The Clone Wars to really set the focus and fix Anakin, but the prequels gave us the Cliff's Notes of the real story behind Star Wars.

To be fair, that was kinda Sidious' plan all along, wasn't it? He put the Jedi in charge of the Grand Army in order to whittle down their numbers to a manageable level, change public perception of them – constant holovid feeds seeing Jedi in battle will have an effect – and make sure that when Order 66 is executed, 99% of the remaining Jedi are in a position to be wiped out. Yep, he completely outplayed them, because he'd been planning this for decades and had anticipated every challenge and come up with a way to overcome it... and when the unexpected arose (which it did throughout the Clone Wars), he took decisive action and manipulated events and people in such a way that it always, always played into his designs.

The Clovis story arc in season 6 is a great example. The Muunilist Banking Clan leaders had got greedy and were embezzling masses of money, bringing the banks close to collapse – so Paleatine used his knowledge of Padmé, Anakin and Clovis, and the affections and animosities there, to manipulate events so that not only did the Republic not lose its source of credit, but the banks came under his direct control , putting him a step closer to supreme power. The entire series is littered with events like that.

I know a lot of people contemptuously dismiss The Clone Wars, but at its best, it's a seriously well-plotted and written show that simultaneously expands the Star Wars universe and gives masses of extra depth to the prequels.

The clone wars really made watching the movies much more interesting

A couple of things: the Jedi didn't tolerate slavery, Hutt space was out of their jurisdiction, Tatooine wasn't even in the republic! The Jedi are still dicks for not going back for Ani's mom.

The real love story of AOTC was Clieg Lars freeing and marrying a lonely slave woman only to lose her to space savages and being powerless to stop it, becoming a cripple in the process. He never really gave up hope, he just couldn't save her himself. Tragic, like an old western ballad.

The OT had three movies to show the love and comraderie of the three main heroes, as well as show the scope of the Galaxy and the nature of the four between light and dark. It included the heroes journey, a villian becoming a hero again, one of the greatest romances ever on film, a deep philosophy about life, hope, ect.

The PT gave us over 6 hours of history and cgi.

Alright, after ready a few comments and completely forgetting what the topic was...

I am a bigger fan of the prequels than the originals (quiet down in front please) and I think it entirely has to do with the first time I saw Episode 1. Growing up in the 90's means the Phantom Menace hit theaters when I was at the perfect age to get wrapped up in the hype and spectacle of it. I watched it and loved it because it was spectacular.

I believe that is the perfect way to watch every one of the star wars movies. Clear your mind off criticism and just enjoy the spectacle that is a star Wars Movie.

On the other hand: I know some people, not serious Star Wars fans, who prefer the peanut gallery/mystery science theater approach, but their commentary (and enjoyment) is just as absurd for the OT as the PT. (They are not invited to future Star Wars marathons)

I have a feeling that your analysis here is in spite of the filmmakers efforts, not because of them.

The ethics of cloning disposable human lives is never even brought up, not even in passing. The Jedi being A-OK with slavers, bounty hunters etc. is more due to lazy writing than making a statement about the slow collapse of society.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love it if your analysis were true, but I think the Jedi sucking as generals is more to create action scenes and CGI spaceship explosions than to make a point about how the Jedi order has fallen from grace.

You're probably right, but it's helped me enjoy the movies more - not that I've watched them recently, but it's tempered my ill will toward them a bit.

Obi-Wan in particular is so cocky in The Clone Wars, it irks me, but helps ground Anakin and make him more believable, especially since Obi-Wan complains about Anakin's recklessness getting him in trouble, when his own cockiness does it just as much. Then when everything falls apart in Revenge of the Sith, Obi-Wan can't handle it and just falls apart and ends up blaming Anakin for not being the savior they erroneously thought he was. While Anakin is lying in pieces and on fire at the edge of a volcano. Then he can't even put Anakin out of his misery as he should, and leaves him to die. Very un-Jedi like.

Obi-Wan in particular is so cocky in The Clone Wars, it irks me, but helps ground Anakin and make him more believable, especially since Obi-Wan complains about Anakin's recklessness getting him in trouble, when his own cockiness does it just as much. Then when everything falls apart in Revenge of the Sith, Obi-Wan can't handle it and just falls apart and ends up blaming Anakin for not being the savior they erroneously thought he was. While Anakin is lying in pieces and on fire at the edge of a volcano. Then he can't even put Anakin out of his misery as he should, and leaves him to die. Very un-Jedi like.

"Now his failure is complete."

It's been a decade and these stock jokes keep going

get over it people

It's been a decade and these stock jokes keep going

get over it people

The best way to enjoy the PT is because you want to. Don't do it because they're official and you feel like you have to. I haven't watched any of the PT films since 2005. I decided they weren't for me and simply let them go. Nothing about them is essential to my enjoyment of the OT, and being upset about them won't change them one bit.

it could be 50 years that wound caused by Lucas will never heal.

Revenge killed star wars as part of my life for a decade I didn't watch the OT I didn't play classic games didn't even consider reading the dozens of books I owned.

It took this game to rekindle the love, but i'll never forgive Lucas and the cowards who wouldn't speak up and tell him no.

Anyone notice that the first lines spoken in TFA are

" This will begin to make things right"

subtext much?

It's ridiculous, is what it is.

It's a whole new level of Prequel-Blame. Since TFA was actually good they can't blame it for "ruining" Star Wars, I guess? IDK.

It's nuts.

But was it? Sure TFA > Prequels but that is like chose a random number between 0 and 10 that is > 2. It is not too hard to do. I think TFA was okay but nothing more than that. Was it good, maybe but that is stretching it.

If you describe anything that happened between Episode 1 - 3 as a perfect love story, I'm terrified of what your idea of love is. Anakin goes from child with a crush, to creepy obsessed stalker that takes Padme's disinterest as exciting? Then gets whiny about it. It's okay though, because she falls for him after he gently caresses her arm and calls her "M'lady" a couple dozen times.

When do we get the prequel trilogy special edition that digitally inserts a tippable fedora on Anakin's head

It's ridiculous, is what it is.

It's a whole new level of Prequel-Blame. Since TFA was actually good they can't blame it for "ruining" Star Wars, I guess? IDK.

It's nuts.

But was it? Sure TFA > Prequels but that is like chose a random number between 0 and 10 that is > 2. It is not too hard to do. I think TFA was okay but nothing more than that. Was it good, maybe but that is stretching it.

I fully agree that once the honeymoon period is over, people will start to look at TFA a little more objectively. I don't really even care that the entire thing was a rehash of the original trilogy, it was more of how poorly a lot of it was written. You could tell where a three-time Academy Award nominee tried to pen a gritty drama, and the esteemed writer of Gone Fishin' and Taking Care of Business tried to turn it into a buddy cop action-adventure built on coincidence and contrivance, with a protagonist who never faces any adversity. It was like they rebooted A New Hope, but then forgot that Luke, Leia and Han Solo were different characters. Poor Han Solo didn't even get to be Han Solo because Rey was better at being Han Solo than he was, lol. I can't wait for her pilot card. PS10, and the ability of "Action: Choose rule text from any previously published pilot or crew card, and duplicate its effects."

I mean I've already looked at TFA fairly objectively. Hell yeah it's flawed.

Still love it though. Even though it did a really bad job with pacing.

Anyone notice that the first lines spoken in TFA are

" This will begin to make things right"

subtext much?

No truer words were spoken in any film.

A perfect love story tragedy dealing with and intertwining with the complex fall of a galactic nation, and fall of a religion/warrior knights.

If you describe anything that happened between Episode 1 - 3 as a perfect love story, I'm terrified of what your idea of love is. Anakin goes from child with a crush, to creepy obsessed stalker that takes Padme's disinterest as exciting? Then gets whiny about it. It's okay though, because she falls for him after he gently caresses her arm and calls her "M'lady" a couple dozen times. Honestly, that love story is such a bad example to any young person on how you should treat other people, especially people you like then Lucas just writes Padme as into it, so it seems okay. Then Padme loses all semblance of character in the third episode and is just there to be pretty a pregnant.

I'm happy the Clone Wars cartoon came along and made Anakin a more tolerable character with real emotional range, an actual appreciation for Obiwan and kind of a normal love story involving Padme.

Wait, the story between R2-D2 and C3p0's life long friendship budding is pretty close to a good love story.

I was describing the aim. Not the result.

OK, everyone knows that I am not a fan of the prequels, and that's an understatement, but

The best way to watch these is with your kids. mine are 5 and 8 and they enjoy it a lot. It pains me to say it, but they prefer the prequels to the OT. (maybe I should take a paternity test) Anyway, one thing the prequels seem to do well is bring a new generation into the fold, much like TFA did (only the TFA was much better, even if it was a new hope 2.0)

Kids have a way of showing you how to enjoy something you had previously forgotten. Thanks to the prequels, my kids are now into star wars.

Personally, I think the cartoon network hand drawn animated clone wars beats the CGI series to pieces, and is better than anything in the prequels, but here are a few things the prequels gave us:

Jango fett chasing Obi wan through the asteroid field.

The arena battle was decent.

Some of the industrial design was interesting (and some of it was silly)

Darth maul was awesome, best lightsaber duel ever.

and ..........O.K. I'm out