So I came into gaming by playing Heroclix in which there are hundreds of current rotation miniatures to build teams with to play skirmish fights.

That being said I like Imperial Assault better as a game. The only thing I've noticed about FFG and it's meta is that (Especially if you listen to podcasts about it) it seems like you only have a chance if you play with one or two teams. I know that X-wing's diversity has improved as we are now in Wave 8, but when I hear things like, "The math for playing Han, IG-88....etc" it discourages me from wanting to even try them, which kind of sucks. I feel like maybe this makes the tournaments slightly more bland than just casual play, but it could be that we only have so few figures yet.

Also like in Heroclix it seems like support pieces can really win games and as of now Imperials have there piece (rightfully so) nerfed and Scum has....none without skirmish upgrade shenanigans.

Unfortunately with only 40 points to work with its just hard to dedicate anywhere from 12-18 points on a single figure. Especially in skirmish where you are going to be contesting certain objectives. That being said I don't think you always have to play the optimal list to win every skirmish. If you know the strengths and weaknesses of a particular list really well and play it well you can still do fine.

Another issue is that skirmishes don't last very long and even Chewy or Vader still only get 2 actions per round. With those points you could get almost an elite and regular Stormtrooper squad and move and attack with 6 different units.

Yeah it definitely seems like they want more heroes on the board, but right now there is no incentive. If Heroes could attack twice maybe that would help. That being said moving the point value of skirmish to 50 pt. teams might be an experiment too. Armada moved but it was supposedly the plan all along.

moving the point value of skirmish to 50 pt. teams might be an experiment too. Armada moved but it was supposedly the plan all along.

I'd be surprised if this wasn't done in the near future.

Armada's plan for that was to encompass the fact that their models were highly priced dollar wise, so to kick the game off they needed a lower point total in order to lessen the barrier of entry. Now that they believe enough people are playing, they needed to raise the point total in order to sell more ships, so that players didn't have to completely dismantle or pack up their previously purchased ships in order to play the new ones. The ships in Armada are also relatively high in points cost (at least on the Imperial side they really are), it'd be like playing Imperial Assault but with very few good figures under 12 points.

Now, though, Imperial Assault is entering a phase where a lot of figures that people considered very good are being replaced or becoming outdated, or losing a lot of power due to the recent nerfs. Vader, for instance, lost a lot of threat with the nerf of Officers. He may not be worth those 18 points now, and quite a few people have stopped considering giving up 45% of their army for him. The current game is seeing a lot more Elites than Uniques, and I'm not certain that's what IA wants to see marketing wise on the podcasts. I don't know, perhaps their business model temporarily does sound like, "The unique figures will sell regardless, we won't have to really market Lando or the Lobot since people will purchase those regardless, but let's make Elite figures good so people will purchase those blister packs." Probably not their entire deal, but I wouldn't be surprised if that thought hadn't entered their mind. Since there are very few of those Elites that you can put out there, raising the point total to 50 does allow you to field more figures, whether they be heroes/villains, elites, or whatever, as well as giving players a great deal more options when it comes to list building so that we can avoid more "Best" lists. "I also have Luke, Leia, two Elite Sabs, Gideon, C-3PO, and R2. But what did you bring for your remaining ten points?"

They have avoided doing that for X-Wing though, so I don't know. It is much easier to keep it balanced at a lower point limit, and games go faster. However, I think the advantages gained by FFG by raising the point total to 50 likely outweigh the disadvantages of doing so. I hope they don't, my wallet is crying as it is.

Very well put. I hate that I will probably be running that Best list at a store championship, but only in a reactionary way. That might be hypocritical of me.

Have you listened to Vader's Finest's 7th podcast (most recent)? It has some really good insights into how to really spice up that best list. I for one was already thinking about the Luke/Leia team but subbing out the 14 points of elite sabs for other things - I think Elite Echo's, MHD 19 and Diplomatic Mission for Gideon is viable - or - Vader's Finest brought up subbing in Diala for one set of Elite Sabs because she synergizes so well with Leia and has gotten a lot better with the nerfs to other units.

And just because we have to use some rebel characters in scum or bring a couple scum into imperial to make a good scum list doesn't mean that faction hasn't gotten to where it could be very competitive. Those HK's with the right support and player can shred. I've got some fun ideas for them too.

There are probably 5-6 lists I want to play this weekend at a tourney I'm going to and I think they could all do well, but I have to pick one. You couldn't say that before Hoth came out and the errata. But this game is only 1 year old and now it's hitting a really great place!

When 4x4 was the best list, I played 4x4. I hated the fact that there is a "best" list. But when there is a best list, I will play that. I won regionals that way.

I sincerly doubt that Twins + eSabs is "the" best list. Or more precisely: There are many very good lists floating arond at the moment. And I think, that we still haven't seen every possible list.

There are many good imperial figures (Officers, eStormtroopers, eSnowtroopers, eProbe Droids, ...), there are many good merc figures (Trandoshans, eTuskens, Boba, Gideon, C-3PO, R2-D2, ...) and there are some very good Rebels (Luke, Leia, eSaboteurs, eEcho Troopers, Gideon, C-3PO, R2-D2) ... so there is still a lot of room for new lists to develop.

Math just says, that most of the Uniques are really, really bad for their costs (low health, only one attack, ...). I would only use a unique, if it brings something special to the table, like Luke's Inspiring, Leia's Skills or Boba's flexibility.

I feel like maybe this makes the tournaments slightly more bland than just casual play, but it could be that we only have so few figures yet.

Tournaments in any game with listbuilding will always be less diverse than casual play; that's what you trade for the (usually) higher intensity. That said I think the early figures suffered from FFG not being great with balance and playtesting, especially early in a game's lifetime. I'll be interested to see if they directly buff any units in the future.

They did a great job buffing Gideon with On a Mission. Not neccessary but definitively efficient.

Attachement / Han Solo only / 0 points

Special Action: Perform two attacks.

Attachement / Chewbacca only / 0 points

When Chewbacca uses a movement action, he can choose to either focus or lose an harmful condition.

They did a great job buffing Gideon with On a Mission. Not neccessary but definitively efficient.

Attachement / Han Solo only / 0 points

Special Action: Perform two attacks.

Attachement / Chewbacca only / 0 points

When Chewbacca uses a movement action, he can choose to either focus or lose an harmful condition.

Something like this I agree with. For the Chewie one, make it Unique Wookiee to cover Garkhaan as well. He's so close to being good with the right support, he just needs to perma-focus and charge around the board.

Han definitely needs something to improve him. It's sad that I never even consider putting him in a list.

They did a great job buffing Gideon with On a Mission. Not neccessary but definitively efficient.

Attachement / Han Solo only / 0 points

Special Action: Perform two attacks.

Attachement / Chewbacca only / 0 points

When Chewbacca uses a movement action, he can choose to either focus or lose an harmful condition.

Wait what's the Gideon buff?

They did a great job buffing Gideon with On a Mission. Not neccessary but definitively efficient.

Attachement / Han Solo only / 0 points

Special Action: Perform two attacks.

Attachement / Chewbacca only / 0 points

When Chewbacca uses a movement action, he can choose to either focus or lose an harmful condition.

Wait what's the Gideon buff?

It's the On a Diplomatic Mission upgrade card that's in the Leia Ally Pack. Long story short it makes Gideon cost 4pts and earn you 1VP each round.

They did a great job buffing Gideon with On a Mission. Not neccessary but definitively efficient.

Attachement / Han Solo only / 0 points

Special Action: Perform two attacks.

Attachement / Chewbacca only / 0 points

When Chewbacca uses a movement action, he can choose to either focus or lose an harmful condition.

"Sith Training"

Royal Guard Champion Only

You gain the "Force User" trait and the "Defensible: When defending, apply +Block or +Evade to your defense results."

1 point

They did a great job buffing Gideon with On a Mission. Not neccessary but definitively efficient.

Attachement / Han Solo only / 0 points

Special Action: Perform two attacks.

Attachement / Chewbacca only / 0 points

When Chewbacca uses a movement action, he can choose to either focus or lose an harmful condition.

Wait what's the Gideon buff?

It's the On a Diplomatic Mission upgrade card that's in the Leia Ally Pack. Long story short it makes Gideon cost 4pts and earn you 1VP each round.

Oh that's right! More of that kinda stuff please? Might even go as extreme on Han like the A-wing fixes in Rebel Aces.

They did a great job buffing Gideon with On a Mission. Not neccessary but definitively efficient.

Attachement / Han Solo only / 0 points

Special Action: Perform two attacks.

Attachement / Chewbacca only / 0 points

When Chewbacca uses a movement action, he can choose to either focus or lose an harmful condition.

Wait what's the Gideon buff?

It's the On a Diplomatic Mission upgrade card that's in the Leia Ally Pack. Long story short it makes Gideon cost 4pts and earn you 1VP each round.

Oh that's right! More of that kinda stuff please? Might even go as extreme on Han like the A-wing fixes in Rebel Aces.

They did a great job buffing Gideon with On a Mission. Not neccessary but definitively efficient.

Attachement / Han Solo only / 0 points

Special Action: Perform two attacks.

Attachement / Chewbacca only / 0 points

When Chewbacca uses a movement action, he can choose to either focus or lose an harmful condition.

Wait what's the Gideon buff?

It's the On a Diplomatic Mission upgrade card that's in the Leia Ally Pack. Long story short it makes Gideon cost 4pts and earn you 1VP each round.

Or give him 2 movement points so he can stay in LoS if he uses both his push and hands out a focus token.

Have you listened to Vader's Finest's 7th podcast (most recent)? It has some really good insights into how to really spice up that best list. I for one was already thinking about the Luke/Leia team but subbing out the 14 points of elite sabs for other things - I think Elite Echo's, MHD 19 and Diplomatic Mission for Gideon is viable - or - Vader's Finest brought up subbing in Diala for one set of Elite Sabs because she synergizes so well with Leia and has gotten a lot better with the nerfs to other units.

And just because we have to use some rebel characters in scum or bring a couple scum into imperial to make a good scum list doesn't mean that faction hasn't gotten to where it could be very competitive. Those HK's with the right support and player can shred. I've got some fun ideas for them too.

There are probably 5-6 lists I want to play this weekend at a tourney I'm going to and I think they could all do well, but I have to pick one. You couldn't say that before Hoth came out and the errata. But this game is only 1 year old and now it's hitting a really great place!

Diala stil isn't good. 1 figure, 7 points, with 8 health. Melee attack which is decent (RG), good surge abilities, attack becomes very good for melee when focused.

eSabs- 2 figures, 7 points, 12 health (total)- ranged attack, pretty much limited to 3- can't count on range from yellow dice. very good surge abilities- can use surge abilities twice- becomes exceptional when focused.

Diala has one more health than a SINGLE eSab figure. They toss the same white dice.

It doesn't make sense to take Diala over eSab, unless you were doing a theme build... she still isn't better than an eSab. If she had like 9 or 10 health... MAYBE.... but, two RY ranged attacks with very good surges VS one RG attack with good surges.....

They did a great job buffing Gideon with On a Mission. Not neccessary but definitively efficient.

Attachement / Han Solo only / 0 points

Special Action: Perform two attacks.

Attachement / Chewbacca only / 0 points

When Chewbacca uses a movement action, he can choose to either focus or lose an harmful condition.

I think Han having that as a Running Shot (similar to the hit and run card- making 2 attacks while moving) would be more thematically correct. That would be awesome.

Have you listened to Vader's Finest's 7th podcast (most recent)? It has some really good insights into how to really spice up that best list. I for one was already thinking about the Luke/Leia team but subbing out the 14 points of elite sabs for other things - I think Elite Echo's, MHD 19 and Diplomatic Mission for Gideon is viable - or - Vader's Finest brought up subbing in Diala for one set of Elite Sabs because she synergizes so well with Leia and has gotten a lot better with the nerfs to other units.

And just because we have to use some rebel characters in scum or bring a couple scum into imperial to make a good scum list doesn't mean that faction hasn't gotten to where it could be very competitive. Those HK's with the right support and player can shred. I've got some fun ideas for them too.

There are probably 5-6 lists I want to play this weekend at a tourney I'm going to and I think they could all do well, but I have to pick one. You couldn't say that before Hoth came out and the errata. But this game is only 1 year old and now it's hitting a really great place!

Diala stil isn't good. 1 figure, 7 points, with 8 health. Melee attack which is decent (RG), good surge abilities, attack becomes very good for melee when focused.

eSabs- 2 figures, 7 points, 12 health (total)- ranged attack, pretty much limited to 3- can't count on range from yellow dice. very good surge abilities- can use surge abilities twice- becomes exceptional when focused.

Diala has one more health than a SINGLE eSab figure. They toss the same white dice.

It doesn't make sense to take Diala over eSab, unless you were doing a theme build... she still isn't better than an eSab. If she had like 9 or 10 health... MAYBE.... but, two RY ranged attacks with very good surges VS one RG attack with good surges.....

Did you listen to the podcast? I notice you didn't mention Diala's ability to reroll her white die or her ability to take away her targets defensive die completely. And the fact that she's another force user in a deck with Luke. One of your force users dead? Use the command card with the other one. Luke stunned and can't use telekinetic throw this turn because you want to still attack with him, use it on diala and have her regular attack against no defense of you want. All your mighty Sabs are dead or some other character you have command cards that are worthless now, feed them to the diala.

And on the list I specifically mentioned diala in it still has one set of elite Sabs. Diala subs in for the other and has Leia recycling command cards to throw away if need be even though more likely you'll be recycling the big hitters like son of sky walker. But the point is she's a utility piece that has way more options brought to the table and can actually counter Sabs. Afraid they're gonna roll xmen? Nuke em with no defense die. Wanna kick Luke or Leia quick? No defense die. It's kinda expensive but play a pummel, two attacks and you can do both against no defense die. Listen to the podcast, with the nerf to officers and royal guards she has more viability now.

And at the end of the day you don't have to play her if you don't want to.

No need to go all passive-aggresive on the issue.

I for one listened to the podcast, but I don't intend to treat it as gospel. Frankly, most of the tips within are pretty ridiculous when confronted with what's been going on during local tournaments in my area. Luke being OMG must have? Diala being worth skipping the second Sab group? Leia being meta-defining for her recycling ability in a three-round match? Imperials as an entire factions being now completely below the power curve? A multiple HK droid list with Wampas but no Gideon and not a singe Sp5 figure?

I guess this must be some local meta thing - it usually is. Though I honestly find it hard to imagine a local meta that is so radically different to what I'm seeing at my end, given the fact that locally Imp Troopers have been trumping all opposition, Leia gets fragged the second she leaves her deployment zone and at most uses her multiattack ability to kill one stormtrooper more dead than he would be if she just shot him once, the player with more speed who starts doing/scoring objectives usually wins the match, and the idea of Diala being meta-defining for the ability to drop a defense die was met with, let's say "amusement" when I relayed it to the top players.

No one HAS to play Diala at the end of the day, that's entirely correct. But in the context of meta and a discussion of what is and isn't optimal for competitive play, that remark is a bit off point.

I for one stand by the opinion that Diala was, is and for the foreseeable future will be a weak and underpowered piece. Literally nothing has changed for her since her release in the core set - not with the errata nerfs and not with Hoth. She's still fairly expensive at seven points and very squishy at 8 health, and you cannot bank on the white die to save you, re-roll or not. Offensively she rolls a red/green and has no damage surges, meaning the most damage she can do, on a perfect roll and even with that card-discarding gimmick, is five. Now, my experience is that the two meta-defining figures currently are the Elite Stormtrooper and the Elite Saboteur (as opposed to the Regular Guard and Elite Saboteur pre-nerf). This means that if you burn a command card, you can kill an elite stormtrooper, but only if you're really lucky. Then that stormtrooper will probably just come back. And even if you discard a card, you cannot kill a rebel saboteur - 6HP is flat out beyond her damage output. And then on the following round she'll get fragged for an easy 7VP by whatever generic troops your opponent brought, because she's a very squishy lady that you just ran forward and exposed.

You can of course focus her up. You can play a bunch of command cards (though that's a bit of a fallacy, since you need to discard command cards to get her to do anything special in the first place). You can give her extra attacks with Leia. But at the end of the day, if you're spending a large chunk of your available resources to make mediocre play less mediocre, you should stop and instead spend those resources to make a great play even better. That's a very valuable lesson you can learn from competitive card games and one that applies to IA as well: the more conditions you need to fulfill for a thing/strategy to be good, the more you should steer away from that particular thing/strategy.

I feel that the crux of the entire Diala argument lies in the fact that the VF podcast guys are overselling the impact of the white defense die on the meta. Yes, rolling a dodge is nice. Yes, rolling a dodge at the right moment can win you the game. So can rolling a three-damage grenade at the right moment. Or rolling a three block on black defense at the right moment. Or drawing Take Initiative at the right moment. Or rolling a surge on a red die at the right moment.

And the list goes on.

At the end of the day, you need to remember and put into perspective that every time you roll white defense, you have the exact same chance of it coming up blank as coming up with a dodge. And with all the other sides, you average less defense than the black die.

Long story short: don't try to jump through multiple hoops to counter something that only happens 16% of the time.

You bring up lots of good points. And it wasn't my intention to come across passive aggressive. In my experience anytime people disagree over a text based media it is nigh impossible to communicate without the other person easily inserting how they feel the other is intending into the text. So I am sorry and was not trying to be antagonistic.

I only asked if you listened to it because her special abilities didn't make it into your original valuation of the figure and I thought that might mean you hadn't thought about them. So I shared. It's all good.

My local store isn't having a tourney till Saturday so I haven't gotten to experience tons of what people are deciding to play this very moment. And yeah I'm not sure how the Leia will actually perform. It stinks that the game is built to go until points but the reality is the time limit screws with that a lot. That fact in my opinion hampers the game to a degree making the named characters even less usable doesn't sound like a good way to make the game more enjoyable.

Just realized Don replied and not Nusair. So still wasn't trying to antagonize either of ya But just went back through and noticed that and wanted to make sure I said something.