Hi!

During my next sessions my PCs are going to end up exploring some underwater ruins. Giving for granted they will wear appropriate equipment (re-breathers and some underwater suit which isolates them from the cold), how many set back dice would you add to all Brawn and Agility checks?

I was thinking to go for two set back dice. Would 3 (like in heavier gravity environment pg. 213) be too much?

If it's just protective gear, that'd be good. If it's equipment with mobility assistance (powered armor, minithrusters, etc) then maybe 1 or 2 setback max.

Also, one of the AoR books has some underwater stuff (subs, maybe some other equipment) though I'm way from my books at the moment so I can't be specific.

Not sure I'd add setbacks by default, but without powered assist there'd be only one move maneuver, and some Strain accrual over time.

Not sure I'd add setbacks by default,

You have to try helmet diving once

Not sure I'd add setbacks by default,

You have to try helmet diving once

But is that a setback on all agility and brawn or just perception/vigilance?

Not sure I'd add setbacks by default,

You have to try helmet diving once

But is that a setback on all agility and brawn or just perception/vigilance?

I'd imagine it'd really mess with your proprioception even if it were limited to your sightlines. To me, the bigger factor is the water resistance/buoyancy/disorientation for characters who aren't familiar with diving/ full immersion in water. Lotta games make an allowance for Zero-G training... in fact, do the books describe the effects of zero-G on players? I don't recall, and that might make a good place to start.

Remember, the goal of drastically altering the environment of the story is to make sure the players feel and act differently. If the setup consists of, "Here all all the ways it's different, but if you do this, this, and this, you won't notice," I wonder why the environment change was even necessary.

I would give enough setbacks/upgrades/other penalties as necessary to force the party to have to contend with the environment. I don't mean go overboard, but it should definitely be more than, "I have a re-breather, I'm all set."

As far as some underwater stuff statted up, Strongholds of Resistance is the book, specifically the section on Dac and the Mon Calamari gear. It contains some nifty underwater power armor with torpedoes and a cool blaster lance thingy that is meant to be used while mounted on their seadragon creatures. Also subs. And more!

Mon Cal ftw!

Using the enviro suit from EtU as a base I'd say standard underwater gear would be something like:

Def 0

Soak 1

Price 750ish

Enc 2

HP 1

Rarity 2

Provides enough air to prevent drowning/suffocation for 8ish hours, provide ■ on all Agility and Perception/Vigilance checks.

Don't see why there'd be any setback toward brawn checks, you're just as strong underwater as above, though I'd understand a setback here and there in some cases. I suspect a vibro axe, double bladed saber, or electrostaff would be kinda awkward to use underwater....

Movement would be slower, but often things are much easier to lift under water, so some Athletics checks could get boost.

probably need to go through each skill and decide rough effects as part of the planing. sounds fun in a game though.

You are right about the lifting, I totally forgot that, I was thinking more in the direction of running (Athletics) and attacking (Brawl, Melee), which due to the resistance of the water it becomes way harder.

I will go for the two set back dice, but I will keep an eye to the exact action the PCs declare, as you point, lifting should be easier.

Remember, buoyant things are easier to lift underwater. Any object that overcomes its buoyancy factor by a large enough margin will still be rather difficult to move. For example, moving a 40 lb gold bar around underwater isn't much different than moving one around on land. And if you don't have a decent anchor point (like when your feet are firmly planted on the ground) you go down when you lift an object up. So, personally, I'd just leave it a flat setback value to Brawn/Agility based skills and actions without differentiating.

Remember, buoyant things are easier to lift underwater. Any object that overcomes its buoyancy factor by a large enough margin will still be rather difficult to move. For example, moving a 40 lb gold bar around underwater isn't much different than moving one around on land. And if you don't have a decent anchor point (like when your feet are firmly planted on the ground) you go down when you lift an object up. So, personally, I'd just leave it a flat setback value to Brawn/Agility based skills and actions without differentiating.

I think it was an episode of "river monsters" or something like that, where the host demonstrated just how little actual force was required to pull someone under, to debunk the myth that it would take an absolutely gigantic fish to drown someone. It was eye-opening, provided he did the science right.

I think there are some rules about this in the book. Athletics was it? Check it out.

Time to get your flippers and see how much quicker you can move in water.

Look at the leviathan armor from Stronghold of Resistance.

Time to get your flippers and see how much quicker you can move in water.

In college, we had a late night dnd session that ended with 5 of us standing around in a gravel parking lot at 2am and making lines in the gravel so a player could try to prove there was no way his fighter could fail trying to make a jump across a gap with only 5 feet of space to get up any speed. His reasoning was, his real strength wasn't a 16, and if he could do it, his fighter could do it more easily.

Strangely enough, alcohol was not involved. Gatorade and pixie sticks though... the devil's brew!

Time to get your flippers and see how much quicker you can move in water.

In college, we had a late night dnd session that ended with 5 of us standing around in a gravel parking lot at 2am and making lines in the gravel so a player could try to prove there was no way his fighter could fail trying to make a jump across a gap with only 5 feet of space to get up any speed. His reasoning was, his real strength wasn't a 16, and if he could do it, his fighter could do it more easily.

Strangely enough, alcohol was not involved. Gatorade and pixie sticks though... the devil's brew!

Did he make it?

5' seems simple enough to me.

Time to get your flippers and see how much quicker you can move in water.

In college, we had a late night dnd session that ended with 5 of us standing around in a gravel parking lot at 2am and making lines in the gravel so a player could try to prove there was no way his fighter could fail trying to make a jump across a gap with only 5 feet of space to get up any speed. His reasoning was, his real strength wasn't a 16, and if he could do it, his fighter could do it more easily.

Strangely enough, alcohol was not involved. Gatorade and pixie sticks though... the devil's brew!

Did he make it?

5' seems simple enough to me.

Sorry, I meant he had a 5-ft space to work up speed to make the jump. The jump itself was a little more than that. I don't remember the exact distance. To his credit, his toes crossed the line (the other 90% of his feet did not) and the ruling was, his character's extra strength was offset by all the gear he wore, and since the player DID make it, but precariously, it all came down to a reflex save to catch himself before he tumbled back over. He did not make it.

I think 2 set back is cool and more than enough. Maybe if they have the proper equipment lower it to 1 or 0 assuming they plan and prepare accordingly.

As an aside ...... I've always wanted to play in a party composed of only the aquatic species with half the adventures occurring in underwater worlds. Or a Mon Cal ship that was filled with water.