Question came up in a game, I leave it to the rules lawyers to figure it out since a search yielded no luck.

Thrust Control Malfunction - The yaw value for the last adjustable joint at your current speed is reduced by 1

Engine Tech - After you execute a maneuver, you man exhaust this card to execute a speed-1 maneuver

So the question is: Does Thrust Control Malfunction cause your engine techs to lose a tick on a gladiator

It is of your current speed so if you are going speed 3 and then engine tech it would not effect you.

Correct. It only affects the speed of what your dial is set to. If your dial is anything other than 1, it will not affect your Engine Tech maneuver.

Has that been clarified somewhere? How do you end up reading the cards like that?

That seems like an odd interpretation of engine techs, which states you're doing a speed 1 maneuver. While doing that maneuver, you use the speed 1 tick column, not the current dial speed tick column do you?

Even weirder to me if it indeed affects your engine techs maneuver only if your dial shows speed 1.

Edit : re-read that other thread on ruptured engines.. which is worded with "speed dial >1", while thrust control malfunction isn't.

Simply because your speed dial is what determines your current speed. The boost from Engine Techs is just that a boost ability that is not based off your speed.

Simply because your speed dial is what determines your current speed. The boost from Engine Techs is just that a boost ability that is not based off your speed.

The boost from engine techs is an extra maneuver done at speed 1. It says so right there on the card. You use the speed 1 column on the speed chart. You resolve any overlapping as you would a normal maneuver. Why would you not consider that the last yaw value is that shown at speed 1 on the chart? And why would you consider that the effect applies if your dial shows speed 1, as it is supposedly an extra boost that is not based off your speed?

It is a tricky one, but we need to look at the Wording in particular.

"Your Current Speed" is fairly specific, and is determined by what is written on your speed dial...

OTHERWISE, you are going to run into other tricky situations... Such as the whole "Trying to Move but you are blocked and can't do anything, So you're doing a Speed 0 Move" and promptly losing your Defense Tokens...

So in the light of that precedence (the speed on your dial is your current speed, even if you are doing a maneuver that is at a different speed), then unless your Current speed is Speed 1, the engine techs maneuver will not be affected...

Is it spelled out absolutely 100%? No.

Does it satisfy any and all potential intentions ? No.

But unless we get an FAQ that essentially rules an Intention different to the Written Word , then its the only shot we've got.

The overlap thing is kind of a non-example, as the rules clearly state that your speed is unaffected by an overlapping move. That bit of the rules doesn't mention anything about resolving a "speed X maneuver".

What it actually says is "If a ship temporarily reduces its speed, its speed returns to the number indicated on the speed dial after it finishes executing its maneuver." The speed changes for the purpose of the maneuver, then is considered as shown on dial once the maneuver is resolved.

That's the thing, for a speed 1 maneuver, your current speed is 1 for the purpose of the maneuver, since you do refer afterall to the speed 1 column of the chart, and not your current speed as shown on the dial.

Send them an email, then.

it came up in one of my games recently and i interpreted it just the same , my current speed was 3, so i would lose a tick on moving at speed 3, then if i use engine techs it would get normal ticks as it is not my current speed it is an extra move at speed 1 with an upgrade card and engine techs occurs after my current speed 3 maneuver.

OTHERWISE, you are going to run into other tricky situations... Such as the whole "Trying to Move but you are blocked and can't do anything, So you're doing a Speed 0 Move" and promptly losing your Defense Tokens...

I'm not sure what to make of this my self. But the argument quoted here seems to not hold up though

The overlapping rules clearly states that you do not change your dial, and it allso has this point:

If a ship temporarily reduces its speed, its speed returns to the number indicated on the speed dial after it finishes executing its maneuver.

So even if the "current speed" would be the temporarily lowered speed during the maneuver, it will return to the value on the speed dial after executing the maneuver. In fact, if "current speed" is allways what is on the dial, this bullet would be uneccessay. That is ofcource is not prof one way or the other, but it does leave the argument quoted a bit weak.

Do Engine Techs change your speed dial?

No, Engine Techs do not interact with your speed dial at all, Engine Techs do not increase your current speed, nor do they decrease your current speed.

So Thruster Control Malfunction does not interact with Engine Techs, it interacts with your speed dial, as it is your speed dial that sets your Yaw values.

No grey area here.

Did someone actually send the question to FFG?

No, I just provided my example based on a corollary rule and watched people tell me I'm wrong. So its not up to me

No, Engine Techs do not interact with your speed dial at all, Engine Techs do not increase your current speed, nor do they decrease your current speed.

So Thruster Control Malfunction does not interact with Engine Techs, it interacts with your speed dial, as it is your speed dial that sets your Yaw values.

By that logic, Engine techs "speed 1 maneuver" should be done according to the yaw value taken from the speed chart column corresponding to your current speed as shown on the dial.

I don't see speed 3 gladiators doing their engine techs maneuver only going straight.

Edit: This has been faq'd btw.

"When the ship executes this maneuver, it can click the first joint of the maneuver tool using its usual yaw value for the first joint at speed 1."

If you're specifically using that joint for this maneuver, why would you apply the thrust control malfunction effect to another column of the chart?

No, Engine Techs do not interact with your speed dial at all, Engine Techs do not increase your current speed, nor do they decrease your current speed.

So Thruster Control Malfunction does not interact with Engine Techs, it interacts with your speed dial, as it is your speed dial that sets your Yaw values.

By that logic, Engine techs "speed 1 maneuver" should be done according to the yaw value taken from the speed chart column corresponding to your current speed as shown on the dial.

I don't see speed 3 gladiators doing their engine techs maneuver only going straight.

Edit: This has been faq'd btw.

"When the ship executes this maneuver, it can click the first joint of the maneuver tool using its usual yaw value for the first joint at speed 1."

If you're specifically using that joint for this maneuver, why would you apply the thrust control malfunction effect to another column of the chart?

Really?

You do not think they had to come up with the most simple possible wording, unambiguous wording possible to print on Engine Techs? it means you move an extra distance, using the clicks as IF you were doing a speed 1 maneuver, you are NOT doing a speed 1 maneuver, the wording just gives you a distance to use and a limited number of clicks, and the easiest way to say that is how they printed it on the card.

If a ship has no Engine Techs (Gladiator) it can be speed 0, speed 1, speed 2 or speed 3. At speed Zero it loses no clicks because it has zero clicks, at speed 1 it loses 1 click, at speed 2 it loses 1 click, at speed 1 it loses 1 click.

If a ship has Engine Techs (Gladiator) it can be speed 0, speed 1, speed 2, or speed 3, at speed zero it loses no clicks, but it can still trigger engine techs, at speed 1 it loses 1 click, but it can still trigger engine techs, at speed 2 it loses one click, but it can still trigger engine techs, at speed 3 it loses 1 click, but it can still trigger engine techs.

At all the possible interaction points, the ships speed dial is checked, at no point does the ships speed dial change due to engine techs, there is no grey area here.

"you are NOT doing a speed 1 maneuver"

No, I just provided my example based on a corollary rule and watched people tell me I'm wrong. So its not up to me

Huh? Everyone in the thread (except for the one guy) was agreeing with your conclusions.

No, I just provided my example based on a corollary rule and watched people tell me I'm wrong. So its not up to me

Huh? Everyone in the thread (except for the one guy) was agreeing with your conclusions.

Its okay - It was more hyperbole to cover the fact that - "This is how I interpret it, yes, it is a bit tricky... But if you disagree, its on you to prove it with an FFG Email."

And I'll be perfectly happy to be called wrong if that happens.

Frankly, I'm happier its here in the open instead of in PMs

ok, I guess I'm "the one guy". I saw an argument and I presented a counter argument for that specific part I quoted. I'm sorry if it was precived as anything other then the intended further discssion on how to interpret the rules.

So let's put this simply.

Let's take ramming, you temporarily reduce your speed as you ram. So by the OP's logic you should lose a click every time you go back however you can't do that because the maneuver tool is locked into position.

So do you think that FFG would create a damage card that creates illegal board states? I doubt it.

How does this relate to Engine Techs? If Ramming actually states that your speed is reduced (no matter how fleeting it stays that way) how can one thing that provides movement boost and does not effect your speed will have its yay value changed?

Remember, Thrusters Malfunction is based off your current speed.

ok, I guess I'm "the one guy". I saw an argument and I presented a counter argument for that specific part I quoted. I'm sorry if it was precived as anything other then the intended further discssion on how to interpret the rules.

No, no, don't take it wrongly - I definately misspoke - I was happy that the discussion was here

You do seem to be somewhat challenging the convention , but there's nothing wrong with that. Perhaps my argument was simply to continue the convention without serious thought, after all.

As I've looked back, it is the wording that makes us contentious - We have no rules interpretation of "Current Speed"

"Current Speed" could mean "The Speed on your Speed Dial"

"Current Speed" could also mean "The Speed of your Maneuver."

And in this case, without that ruling, I see there being that impass.

But that is what I believe is the point of contention, and that, now I've identified it, will be something I can feel comfortable presenting as a rules question.

Although I have no hard proof or rigid rules to back it up, my interpretation is that the damage card would affect the extra maneuver from Engine tech, no matter what your speed dial is set to. My first reason would be that the rules for overlapping gives examples where your speed is not the same as your speed dial (" Instead, temporarily reduce its speed by one (without changing the speed dial) and move the ship at the new speed." ). My second reason is even more opinion based (and should therefore be considered thereafter), but it feels really strange gameplay-wise to have a penalty on a extra, independent maneuver, being determined whether your speed dial is one thing or another, when it isn't used in that specific maneuver in any way. Just my two cents.

I emailed FFG about it, so now we play the waiting game.

EDIT: Since Drasnigthas edit put it better than I could, I want to clarify that I'm basically saying that I think that " "Current Speed" could also mean "The Speed of your Maneuver." " is the proper way to interpret "Current speed".

As I've looked back, it is the wording that makes us contentious - We have no rules interpretation of "Current Speed"

"Current Speed" could mean "The Speed on your Speed Dial"

"Current Speed" could also mean "The Speed of your Maneuver."

And in this case, without that ruling, I see there being that impass.

But that is what I believe is the point of contention, and that, now I've identified it, will be something I can feel comfortable presenting as a rules question.

So then that could create an illegal game state with Ramming.

Going over the rules reference guide I came across the entry on speed. . . found something interesting there.

Speed

A ship’s speed determines how far it must move each activation; the ship’s current speed is tracked on its speed dial. A squadron’s speed value indicates the farthest distance band that the squadron can move into.

Speed

A ship’s speed determines how far it must move each activation; the ship’s current speed is tracked on its speed dial. A squadron’s speed value indicates the farthest distance band that the squadron can move into.

I had a feeling, but my rules-fu has been interrupted by my Toddler