The wording I'm familiar with for Injured Pilot starts with "All players must ignore...". Is the "You cannot use..." wording old?

If presented with this situation in a tournament without thinking about it beforehand, I would probably rule with Option 2 if shown the "You cannot use..." wording, and Option 1 if shown the "All players must ignore..." wording.

According to the text on the card, Kallus activates at the start of the first turn.

So if Moff Jerjerrod flips over Kallus does his power stop working?

After the ruling with Integrated Astromech on R2-D6 and the EPT I'm not sure.

Yeah, Kallus's effect goes away if he's airlocked. Kallus's mini-focus isn't a separate thing that you're allowed to equip because you equipped Kallus first, so the R2-D6 ruling isn't relevant. Any time an upgrade card goes away, you can't use its effect any more. The only difference between Kallus's mini-focus and the dice modification abilities on Predator or Flight Instructor is that Kallus requires you to make a decision at the beginning of the game.

By way of extension, how would one rule the following scenario:

I'm flying Rear Admiral Chiraneau in a VT-49 Decimator with Marksmanship (because I love {kaboom}s). Last round my shields were stripped. This round I used Marksmanship as my action and then my opponent's Ten Numb + Mangler Cannon + VI shoots first. Because I'm a crazy man, I draw the Injured Pilot critical damage card ["You cannot use your pilot ability or abilities on {elite pilot talent} Upgrade cards equipped on your ship."] critical damage from the old damage deck (crazy cause I own two new core sets). So now I have lost my Pilot Ability and the ability printed on the Marksmanship elite pilot talent card ["Action: When attacking this round, you may change 1 of your {eyeball} results to a {kaboom} result and all of your other {eyeball} results to {boom} results."]. Do I lose the ability printed on the marksmanship upgrade card even though I took the action to activate the ability during the activation phase?

Option 1 - Yes because I spent my action to "activate" the ability on the card and "You cannot use your pilot ability or abilities on {elite pilot talent} Upgrade cards" overrules the upgrade card's "you may change [...]."

Option 2 - No because the native "ability" of the card is to perform an action that does something and therefore the Injured Pilot critical damage card takes away the ability to perform that action but not the effect of said action.

Option 3 - Yes because.....

Option 4 - No because.....

For the record I, as a TO/Judge, rule with Option 1 but can argue the points of Option 2 (which just so happens to be how my back up Judge rules). This means in tournaments where this used to occur the precedent for future rulings for the remainder of the tournament would be set by whichever Judge (myself or my back up) had to make the ruling first (as I typically flew Ten Numb + Marksmanship or Mangler Cannon, when that came out, I was seldom the judge to make the ruling).

What is the correct ruling now and what was (if anyone can recall) the correct ruling before the Force Awakens Core Set and subsequent FAQ rulings were added to the game?

Yes, you would lose the Marksmanship ability immediately as stated on the Damage card - "All players ignore...", and all includes you. There's no delay in applying the Injured Pilot damage card, it happens the moment it is dealt. So you can't really argue that because you've performed the action, it remains in effect. It now tells all players to ignore it. It's not like it has granted you a token to use that would remain.

Also, I'm not aware of any ruling change as the TFA set has replaced that card with Shaken Pilot which has an entirely different effect.

Yes, you would lose the Marksmanship ability immediately as stated on the Damage card - "All players ignore...", and all includes you. There's no delay in applying the Injured Pilot damage card, it happens the moment it is dealt. So you can't really argue that because you've performed the action, it remains in effect. It now tells all players to ignore it. It's not like it has granted you a token to use that would remain.

Does the same apply to Glitterstim? "You've discarded it now so you don't get the effect any more"?

Yes, you would lose the Marksmanship ability immediately as stated on the Damage card - "All players ignore...", and all includes you. There's no delay in applying the Injured Pilot damage card, it happens the moment it is dealt. So you can't really argue that because you've performed the action, it remains in effect. It now tells all players to ignore it. It's not like it has granted you a token to use that would remain.

Does the same apply to Glitterstim? "You've discarded it now so you don't get the effect any more"?

No, it wouldn't because the Injured Pilot card only affects Pilot Card abilities and Elite Pilot Talent upgrade cards, not Illicit upgrades.

No, it wouldn't because the Injured Pilot card only affects Pilot Card abilities and Elite Pilot Talent upgrade cards, not Illicit upgrades.

I don't mean Blinded Pilot, I mean when you use it normally.

Marksmanship lets you spend an action to do something later on your turn. If you later have to ignore Marksmanship, you've still bought that capability to do something later that turn.

Glitterstim lets you take stress and flip the card to do something later that turn. However, once you flip the card it is out of play... But you can still use the ability you bought by flipping it for the rest of the turn.

No, it wouldn't because the Injured Pilot card only affects Pilot Card abilities and Elite Pilot Talent upgrade cards, not Illicit upgrades.

I don't mean Blinded Pilot, I mean when you use it normally.

Marksmanship lets you spend an action to do something later on your turn. If you later have to ignore Marksmanship, you've still bought that capability to do something later that turn.

Glitterstim lets you take stress and flip the card to do something later that turn. However, once you flip the card it is out of play... But you can still use the ability you bought by flipping it for the rest of the turn.

The card specifically states what to do and the fact that you discard it before it's effect comes into play does make it slightly illogical. They probably should've worded it to say that you discard it at the end of the Combat phase instead. If you were to throw this question at FFG, it'll probably be a case of "it works because we say it works".

However, that still doesn't alter the interaction between Marksmanship and Injured Pilot.

However, that still doesn't alter the interaction between Marksmanship and Injured Pilot.

Welp, I've seen reference on BGG to an FFG ruling that the interaction isn't how you say it is, so I think I'll go with that instead.

However, that still doesn't alter the interaction between Marksmanship and Injured Pilot.

Welp, I've seen reference on BGG to an FFG ruling that the interaction isn't how you say it is, so I think I'll go with that instead.

So what was that ruling?

The EPT Markmanship allows you to spend an action to get an effect that lasts until the end of the round. That effect is tokenless, but it still exists apart from Markmanship, because it has a lifespan indicated in the card that granted it "until the end of the round".

If you spend an action on Markmanship, the effect will be running on you, regardless of the loss of Markmanship at a later point in the round.

Injured Pilot would prevent you to use another action to get that effect, but wouldn't remove the effect already running.

As they have said, this reading is consistent with other "discard this card to..." upgrades. Discarding a card makes its text be blank, so to speak, but you have already got the effect granted by the card until it fades.

Also, it would be consistent with the effects of Roark Garnet's ability, that lets you treat the pilot skill of another friendly ship as 12 during the combat phase.

Otherwise we would have this paradox:

- Roark selects Blue Squadron Pilot to have PS 12.

- At PS12, BSP becomes active and attacks Soontir.

- At PS 9 Soontir becomes active and attacks Roark. Roark gets the crit Injured Pilot. BSP falls back to PS2.

- At PS2 BSP becomes active again!

Of course, FFG is fond of ruling towards inconsistence as much as they can. So in light of that, I bet Parravon is right, and I am wrong.

The EPT Markmanship allows you to spend an action to get an effect that lasts until the end of the round. That effect is tokenless, but it still exists apart from Markmanship, because it has a lifespan indicated in the card that granted it "until the end of the round".

If you spend an action on Markmanship, the effect will be running on you, regardless of the loss of Markmanship at a later point in the round.

Injured Pilot would prevent you to use another action to get that effect, but wouldn't remove the effect already running.

As they have said, this reading is consistent with other "discard this card to..." upgrades. Discarding a card makes its text be blank, so to speak, but you have already got the effect granted by the card until it fades.

Also, it would be consistent with the effects of Roark Garnet's ability, that lets you treat the pilot skill of another friendly ship as 12 during the combat phase.

Otherwise we would have this paradox:

- Roark selects Blue Squadron Pilot to have PS 12.

- At PS12, BSP becomes active and attacks Soontir.

- At PS 9 Soontir becomes active and attacks Roark. Roark gets the crit Injured Pilot. BSP falls back to PS2.

- At PS2 BSP becomes active again!

Which is probably a prime reason why they omitted the Injure Pilot card from the TFA damage deck and replaced it with Stunned Pilot.

You can get that sort of paradox with a veteran instincts ship that has a mine dropped on it and is forced to discard VI before it would move at its elevated PS, but after it would have moved at its normal PS.

Frank said in that case to treat it as the higher PS still until after it activates.

So what was that ruling?

That player would still get the effect of Marksmanship. Abilities that last until the end of the round will still be affected even though the card is no longer useable.

So what was that ruling?

Here you go. (Although of course, like all rulings, it's second-hand. Or I guess third now.)

That player would still get the effect of Marksmanship. Abilities that last until the end of the round will still be affected even though the card is no longer useable.

Interesting... I did notice that was back in October 2014. There's been a few changes to the rules structure and the development team since then. I wonder if someone sent the same question in to FFG, if they'd get the same answer.

Marksmanship doesn't actually state it lasts until the end of the round either. It triggers each time you attack during the round, but it is clearly intended to remain in effect until you have no further attacks. There was debate there with Expose also, which admittedly is very similar, but it is worded to last until the end of the round. Some of the rules lawyers around here could get finnicky over something like that.

There was also debate over taking an action that grants a token. You might lose the ability to perform the action again, but you don't lose the token. I was thinking along those lines earlier. To be honest, I was wavering between both sides of the argument and I could see the pros and cons for both, but came to the conclusion that if the EPT hadn't been triggered during the Combat phase yet, then it was just unlucky timing, and it was lost.

The EPT Markmanship allows you to spend an action to get an effect that lasts until the end of the round. That effect is tokenless, but it still exists apart from Markmanship, because it has a lifespan indicated in the card that granted it "until the end of the round".

If you spend an action on Markmanship, the effect will be running on you, regardless of the loss of Markmanship at a later point in the round.

Injured Pilot would prevent you to use another action to get that effect, but wouldn't remove the effect already running.

As they have said, this reading is consistent with other "discard this card to..." upgrades. Discarding a card makes its text be blank, so to speak, but you have already got the effect granted by the card until it fades.

Also, it would be consistent with the effects of Roark Garnet's ability, that lets you treat the pilot skill of another friendly ship as 12 during the combat phase.

Otherwise we would have this paradox:

- Roark selects Blue Squadron Pilot to have PS 12.

- At PS12, BSP becomes active and attacks Soontir.

- At PS 9 Soontir becomes active and attacks Roark. Roark gets the crit Injured Pilot. BSP falls back to PS2.

- At PS2 BSP becomes active again!

Which is probably a prime reason why they omitted the Injure Pilot card from the TFA damage deck and replaced it with Stunned Pilot.

Both the Combat and Activation phase specify that a ship can only become active once:

RRG, pg. 4 & 9:

"Each ship becomes the active ship only once during this phase"

According to the text on the card, Kallus activates at the start of the first turn.

So if Moff Jerjerrod flips over Kallus does his power stop working?

After the ruling with Integrated Astromech on R2-D6 and the EPT I'm not sure.

Yeah, Kallus's effect goes away if he's airlocked. Kallus's mini-focus isn't a separate thing that you're allowed to equip because you equipped Kallus first, so the R2-D6 ruling isn't relevant. Any time an upgrade card goes away, you can't use its effect any more. The only difference between Kallus's mini-focus and the dice modification abilities on Predator or Flight Instructor is that Kallus requires you to make a decision at the beginning of the game.

By way of extension, how would one rule the following scenario:

I'm flying Rear Admiral Chiraneau in a VT-49 Decimator with Marksmanship (because I love {kaboom}s). Last round my shields were stripped. This round I used Marksmanship as my action and then my opponent's Ten Numb + Mangler Cannon + VI shoots first. Because I'm a crazy man, I draw the Injured Pilot critical damage card ["You cannot use your pilot ability or abilities on {elite pilot talent} Upgrade cards equipped on your ship."] critical damage from the old damage deck (crazy cause I own two new core sets). So now I have lost my Pilot Ability and the ability printed on the Marksmanship elite pilot talent card ["Action: When attacking this round, you may change 1 of your {eyeball} results to a {kaboom} result and all of your other {eyeball} results to {boom} results."]. Do I lose the ability printed on the marksmanship upgrade card even though I took the action to activate the ability during the activation phase?

Option 1 - Yes because I spent my action to "activate" the ability on the card and "You cannot use your pilot ability or abilities on {elite pilot talent} Upgrade cards" overrules the upgrade card's "you may change [...]."

Option 2 - No because the native "ability" of the card is to perform an action that does something and therefore the Injured Pilot critical damage card takes away the ability to perform that action but not the effect of said action.

Option 3 - Yes because.....

Option 4 - No because.....

For the record I, as a TO/Judge, rule with Option 1 but can argue the points of Option 2 (which just so happens to be how my back up Judge rules). This means in tournaments where this used to occur the precedent for future rulings for the remainder of the tournament would be set by whichever Judge (myself or my back up) had to make the ruling first (as I typically flew Ten Numb + Marksmanship or Mangler Cannon, when that came out, I was seldom the judge to make the ruling).

What is the correct ruling now and what was (if anyone can recall) the correct ruling before the Force Awakens Core Set and subsequent FAQ rulings were added to the game?

Yes, you would lose the Marksmanship ability immediately as stated on the Damage card - "All players ignore...", and all includes you. There's no delay in applying the Injured Pilot damage card, it happens the moment it is dealt. So you can't really argue that because you've performed the action, it remains in effect. It now tells all players to ignore it. It's not like it has granted you a token to use that would remain.

Also, I'm not aware of any ruling change as the TFA set has replaced that card with Shaken Pilot which has an entirely different effect.

Thanks, I like it when I'm right

Also the original Injured Pilot card does say "You cannot use" and I believe it was later errata-ed to "All players ignore" (that sounds right but I can't confirm this at the moment).