Soontir is a ton of ace for a fairly reasonable point cost(35).

A) Soontir + Palpatine is super powerful

B) The current metagame is warped around countering Soontir (Crackshot, stress, etc.)

C) Everything that counters Soontir also counters generic Interceptors.

I generally agree with this, but I think the most common Soontir counter (Stresshog) doesn't hit non-PTL generics that hard, because they're fewer points and don't require their own stress generation to be effective. Obviously the worth of non-PTL generics can be debated.

Here's a question: why not Predator on Interceptors to turn them into cheap gunships? You've got a moderately modified attack, and still have an action you can use for movement, offense, or defense. Predator actually allows greater offense than PTL can ever get because there's no inherent Target Lock for the Interceptor. No stress as well. The main problem is lack of defense, as PTL let's you stack Focus and Evade, but a full dial and much less stress susceptibility is worth something. Just a Saber with Predator and Hull Upgrade is 27 points and a great value offensively. Let's say you take three, you've got 19 points left for a TIE Shuttle with Fleet Officer to feed them Focus tokens.

I did try it on Jax at the last Regionals and let's just say he was not the MVP of the day. He actually died in every game without exception. I know that PtL could have save his life in a game or 2 to either turtle up, but also to arc dodge some more. It was nice though to have some reroll in offense, something that Interceptor usually lack (except when taking TC, something that I like to do with Soontir). It was also nice to have access each turn to the full dial, people doesn't seem used to fly against an unstressed Interceptor and see them pull a k-turn once in a while. There is value in Predator, I'll probably try it again sometimes, but it won't be on Jax, he has a big bullseye on his back that require him to be able to play as defensively as possible.

Turr with Lonewolf though, now that was my MVP! Never died once in all the tournament, except when I lost in Top 8. If you want to use an Interceptor without PtL (and you know how to keep Lonewolf active thanks to some Barrel Roll or Boost here and there), go with Turr with Lonewolf, Autothrusters and Stealth Device. I found that the defensive reroll compensated for the lack of a second token, plus the repositionning after shooting. This guy just eat generic pilots for breakfast.

Everything that counters Soontir also counters generic Interceptors.

I think the most common Soontir counter (Stresshog) doesn't hit non-PTL generics that hard, because they're fewer points and don't require their own stress generation to be effective.

Is there an argument for moving away from the 'industry standard' autothrusters and stealth in this case? Stacked Stress hits defence based on green dice, but you can turn an interceptor into a fairly creditable (if overpriced) heavy fighter - more like the Starviper (not necessarily something to write home about).

The one other thing I've been wondering about is Kir Kanos & Palpatine. Kanos on his own is okay verging on rubbish; with an evade token he's more vulnerable than a focus/evade PTL royal guard, but (a) isn't stressed and (b) is a point cheaper. Plus whilst he's less defensive, he does have more firepower than 3 dice with focus.

With Palpatine, it's another matter entirely, because his ability lets you exceed the maximum possible damage on 3 dice. In fact, if Kanos and Palpatine both throw their abilities into the same attack, the average result is >3 damage.

Everything that counters Soontir also counters generic Interceptors.

I think the most common Soontir counter (Stresshog) doesn't hit non-PTL generics that hard, because they're fewer points and don't require their own stress generation to be effective.

Is there an argument for moving away from the 'industry standard' autothrusters and stealth in this case? Stacked Stress hits defence based on green dice, but you can turn an interceptor into a fairly creditable (if overpriced) heavy fighter - more like the Starviper (not necessarily something to write home about).

I would say that the possibility of stacked stress is a good reason to keep Autothrusters. If you are too stressed to take an action, so no Focus or Evade, the only possible modifier in defense is Autothrusters to change a blank into an evade. So if you got yourself crippled by multiple stress, at least you can try to keep at range 3 to gain the 4th dice (except against secondary weapon, of course) and benefit from Autothrusters. Meanwhile, and hopefully, the rest of your team will deal with the stress inducing ship so that it doesn't stack too much stress on you. Hit and run strategy is a must in this case.

With Palpatine, it's another matter entirely, because his ability lets you exceed the maximum possible damage on 3 dice. In fact, if Kanos and Palpatine both throw their abilities into the same attack, the average result is >3 damage.

That's a fairly big if, though. Kanos is only a fairly modest PS6, so getting to the stage of being able to fire without being forced into spending either Palpatine or the Evade token may be somewhat troublesome.

The amount of Epic in the moment is too great to bear.

hell, their whole universe is made of awesome, no lasers, no shields, a ship is a flying coffin, the pilot is really BURIED from outside, instead of pew-pew-shields-down! even frigates go down with horrible screams, fires, explosions smoke and gaping holes in decks...

*re-installs HW1 in a feat of nostalgia*

You do know that you can get a graphically revamped version of HW1 and 2 on Steam??? It's awesome!

Other than that, the Interceptors are totally fine. Unlike many other ships the generics are not unplayable or overcosted. they even have 3 pilots that are competitive enoughto see tournament tables regularly. Other ships have one, or NONE! So really no reason to complain.

In comparison to the TAP the ship has 3 attack dice, which is pretty much enough to justify its existence. It's just a big difference.

Except from Tie Fighters and Y-Wings we don't see a lot of spam lists anyway, and even aces are often played one of each ship type. So if we don't see 3 Interceptors in one list that's really not a sign that the Interceptor is bad!

They couldn't re-make the Cataclysm because the files went missing...

Basic ceptors just can't use most of the AWESOME goodies such as super-green-dial, barrel and boost for knife-fighter-arcdodges

If there could be a possibility to take two PS9 PTLing 'ceptors, we would have seen people take them.

But, good for us, there's onnle ONE soontir on the loose, and Carnor is not PS9

I do have Homeworld Remastered version on my Computer, and it has HW 1 and 2 Campaigns on it. Idk about Cataclysm, but if you like HW, that's something, no?

Well it's like with any other ship. If at all they have a PS9 pilot, there is no second one, and that's really a good thing isn't it? Nobody wants to see all PS9 lists with the same ship really. That would also not be balanced with other ship types!

Super-PS is extremely important for arcdodgers, that's why Soontir is almost eternal.

He's one of the few PS9 arcdodgers, and by far the only one who has both reposition actions naturally, 3 attack dice and an epic dial.

Can't say I really want to see PS9 lists anyway, telling the truth. The idea to put the best PS and the best abilities on same pilots isn't a good game design from my point of view. Want an epic ability? Crappy PS. Want a great PS? Sorry, your ability is worthless most of the game.

Yes i agree with almost everything here, except that we have PS9 aces like Talonbane or Wedge that have PS9, a good ability, and are still not played because they sit in crappy ships and can't make anything of all their epicness!

Soontir is a ton of ace for a fairly reasonable point cost(35).

This, but we can't measure the capability of a ship by saying it's crap unless it has multiple of these super effective pilots.

And the Interceptor kinda does have multiple playable pilots, and even outside of those, Royal guards made some showings on some Tournaments!

Compare that to the E-Wing where nobody ever ever EVER plays generics or even Etahn! These are generics that need help!

I think I will start testing those two:

and this

I really like the first idea, in fact like it a lot because this way high risk flying is rewarded for low PS pilots.

Second, not really my kind of stuff, but modified TIE/INs were pretty common in old Star Wars similators and this seems to do the trick - higher cost, better firepower, but higher energy demand affecting its agility in some situations.

Plus as a modification restricted to Interceptors should allow adding other stuff (Autothrusters, Twin Ion Engines Mk II etc), for fans of Imperial Guard title, but at enormous cost similar to TIE Defender. But if someone likes it that way...

I'll try the first one soon. If anyone is interested I hope for feedback, especially the kind of stuff which could eliminate possible problems with both cards.

Also if you have better images for these cards I'd consider using them, though these are not that bad in my opinion.

Well do what you want, just let me tell you that the Interceptor is a fine ship and just does not need a fix at the moment. And i am actually for actively balancing the game, just in this case it's really not necessary!

They have Royal Guard and Autothrusters, they do just fine in the meta, and there are actually other ships that would need some help. Unlike the Interceptor.

I think you are creating an issue here where there is just none!

The amount of Epic in the moment is too great to bear.

hell, their whole universe is made of awesome, no lasers, no shields, a ship is a flying coffin, the pilot is really BURIED from outside, instead of pew-pew-shields-down! even frigates go down with horrible screams, fires, explosions smoke and gaping holes in decks...

*re-installs HW1 in a feat of nostalgia*

You do know that you can get a graphically revamped version of HW1 and 2 on Steam??? It's awesome!

Other than that, the Interceptors are totally fine. Unlike many other ships the generics are not unplayable or overcosted. they even have 3 pilots that are competitive enoughto see tournament tables regularly. Other ships have one, or NONE! So really no reason to complain.

In comparison to the TAP the ship has 3 attack dice, which is pretty much enough to justify its existence. It's just a big difference.

Except from Tie Fighters and Y-Wings we don't see a lot of spam lists anyway, and even aces are often played one of each ship type. So if we don't see 3 Interceptors in one list that's really not a sign that the Interceptor is bad!

They couldn't re-make the Cataclysm because the files went missing...

Basic ceptors just can't use most of the AWESOME goodies such as super-green-dial, barrel and boost for knife-fighter-arcdodges

If there could be a possibility to take two PS9 PTLing 'ceptors, we would have seen people take them.

But, good for us, there's onnle ONE soontir on the loose, and Carnor is not PS9

I do have Homeworld Remastered version on my Computer, and it has HW 1 and 2 Campaigns on it. Idk about Cataclysm, but if you like HW, that's something, no?

Well it's like with any other ship. If at all they have a PS9 pilot, there is no second one, and that's really a good thing isn't it? Nobody wants to see all PS9 lists with the same ship really. That would also not be balanced with other ship types!

Super-PS is extremely important for arcdodgers, that's why Soontir is almost eternal.

He's one of the few PS9 arcdodgers, and by far the only one who has both reposition actions naturally, 3 attack dice and an epic dial.

Can't say I really want to see PS9 lists anyway, telling the truth. The idea to put the best PS and the best abilities on same pilots isn't a good game design from my point of view. Want an epic ability? Crappy PS. Want a great PS? Sorry, your ability is worthless most of the game.

Yes i agree with almost everything here, except that we have PS9 aces like Talonbane or Wedge that have PS9, a good ability, and are still not played because they sit in crappy ships and can't make anything of all their epicness!

well, I'm having SHITTON of FUN with Bat-wedge

BB-8 PTL and EU give him the repositioning he lacks

but cobra, sadly, didn't even get any useful slot for further shenanigans :C

Sorry to chime in. But this is what concerns me about X-Wing. The never ending quest for more and more fixes. Personally I don't think the TIE/IN needs fixing but you don't have to look far to see thread after thread of this is broken, this needs a fix or this needs a buff.

I'm not saying FFG shouldn't try to fix broken things but not every single pilot and generic requires their own individual upgrade to fix them. One person insisted that the reason we need to fix them so tightly is because upper tier players don't make mistakes. They are so equally matched and their maneuver and action choices are so perfect even a fractional difference in ship efficiency ruins the game. Seriously? Come one guys.

Fix what is broken and in desperate need of fixing. Maybe a buff for those who are truly outliers. But other than those few, as long as they are close, learn to out fly your opponent.

Just my two cents.

That's a fairly big if, though. Kanos is only a fairly modest PS6, so getting to the stage of being able to fire without being forced into spending either Palpatine or the Evade token may be somewhat troublesome.

Agreed. But the same could be said of most pilots; if they get forced to spend their focus beforehand, it can really take the sting out of them. The difference here is that your opponents aces have already fired, so you hopefully know if you need it at this point (where Vader would be leery about spending one of his focus tokens if he's likely to come under fire), and if you don't make him spend it, he's going to punish you badly.

I'm actually wondering about a 'proper' Royal Guard list - Carnor Jax is a good dogfighter but his real bonus is his ability to lock down people's actions/tokens, which makes the rest of the list a lot tougher, even if they get shots off.

Theoretically, Kanos, Jax and Palpatine should work together well.

Swapping Vader and Fell out for Jax and Kanos, you save enough points to give Palpatine a Sensor Jammer - a so-so upgrade which becomes ***** devastating with Carnor Jax hugging up to important opponents, and to swap the Omicron Group Pilot for Captain Yorr - so the shuttle fires at a useful point in the turn (potentially finishing off a generic before it fires), and can pull off Jax's stress tokens, allowing him to K-Turn and Push The Limit almost at will.

Everything that counters Soontir also counters generic Interceptors.

I think the most common Soontir counter (Stresshog) doesn't hit non-PTL generics that hard, because they're fewer points and don't require their own stress generation to be effective.

Is there an argument for moving away from the 'industry standard' autothrusters and stealth in this case? Stacked Stress hits defence based on green dice, but you can turn an interceptor into a fairly creditable (if overpriced) heavy fighter - more like the Starviper (not necessarily something to write home about).

I remember people used to run Soontir with AT and Hull or Shield, but it's been a long, long time since I've seen that. Stealth makes him super hard to hit, obviously, but Hull or Shield are defense against stuff that goes right through green dice such as Autoblaster turret, obstacle rolls, Vader crew, etc. It's also better if you have no actions to defend yourself. AT is probably the first defensive mod you always take, though. You might see a shift from Stealth to the others if Soontir counters become much more common. You might lower his overall power with this change, but maybe there's an argument that you can be merely "very good" at avoiding normal attacks and go from "awful" to "poor" against direct damage. I'm not really convinced myself, but if Prox Mines were in half the lists, I'd probably drop Stealth for Hull.

Everything that counters Soontir also counters generic Interceptors.

I think the most common Soontir counter (Stresshog) doesn't hit non-PTL generics that hard, because they're fewer points and don't require their own stress generation to be effective.

Is there an argument for moving away from the 'industry standard' autothrusters and stealth in this case? Stacked Stress hits defence based on green dice, but you can turn an interceptor into a fairly creditable (if overpriced) heavy fighter - more like the Starviper (not necessarily something to write home about).

I remember people used to run Soontir with AT and Hull or Shield, but it's been a long, long time since I've seen that. Stealth makes him super hard to hit, obviously, but Hull or Shield are defense against stuff that goes right through green dice such as Autoblaster turret, obstacle rolls, Vader crew, etc. It's also better if you have no actions to defend yourself. AT is probably the first defensive mod you always take, though. You might see a shift from Stealth to the others if Soontir counters become much more common. You might lower his overall power with this change, but maybe there's an argument that you can be merely "very good" at avoiding normal attacks and go from "awful" to "poor" against direct damage. I'm not really convinced myself, but if Prox Mines were in half the lists, I'd probably drop Stealth for Hull.

On Soontir, I personaly favor TC over Stealth. Sure, stealth make him harder to hit, but without the TL, he's not that threatening and can usually be left alone while you take care of the rest of his team. With TC, you just can't leave him alone or he will slowly kill you with his 3-4 dice attack with F+TL.

Shield upgrade was a valid option during Wave 5 when some players used Vader on a Decimator. The Shield allowed you to soak the first crit dealt to him... and with the old damage deck, you really really didn't want to get hit by a crit with Soontir.

Everything that counters Soontir also counters generic Interceptors.

I think the most common Soontir counter (Stresshog) doesn't hit non-PTL generics that hard, because they're fewer points and don't require their own stress generation to be effective.

Is there an argument for moving away from the 'industry standard' autothrusters and stealth in this case? Stacked Stress hits defence based on green dice, but you can turn an interceptor into a fairly creditable (if overpriced) heavy fighter - more like the Starviper (not necessarily something to write home about).

I dropped the SD for a TIE mk II on Soontir. It gives two more maneuvers in green which is a large difference and drops him two points. Those two points can be very useful elsewhere.

I 100% buy the TC argument for Soontir. I have ignored him on a number of occasions because his threat did not match the level of effort it would take to kill him.