You know why CD sales went into a large decline right? because people were sick of paying a premium for a load of filler to get the few tracks they actually wanted......

I do not know where to start with this. I am tempted to record myself screaming "SPOTIFY" over and over again, convert it into a 4-minute track, upload it to Youtube and Apple Music / iTunes or whatever it's called, and then send you a link via any number of social media websites.

Instead, I'm going to do a Doctor Cox impression. Since this is text, just assume I look and sound like John C. McGinley...

Here's the thing, Sandra, the "company" has this whole weird thing goin' on there where they sell you little plastic toy spaceships, and by sell I really do mean that you hand over the money you get from moonlighting as a Doris Day impersonator and in return you get this just gosh-darn cutesy little box o' goodies. The "company" then takes that Doris Day money and uses it to pay for the costs of making more little plastic toy spaceships in cutesy boxes, and pays for things like employees, and offices, and advertising (that's the thing where they tell you whatcha need and you listen to 'em, 'cause your husband over there *nods towards Turk in the background* ain't around to do your thinkin' for ya). Then the other little toy spaceships that the "COMPANY" makes go out into stores and you see them and pay for them after a whole weekend of singin' 'Perhaps, Perhaps, Perhaps' and the whole cycle just keeps on goin'. And let me tell you there, if ya really are gonna quit buyin' yah toy spaceships because you resent the fact that you're "forced" to buy extras for little card rectangles that you really "need", I'm gonna have to go out, get you a big ol' Oxford English Dictionary and beat you upside the head with it until you come to understand what words like "forced" and "need" and "ass-whoopin'" really mean, 'cause you're the only girl this side of the Mississippi who won't immediately crack open your floral-brocade purse as soon as you get another release of new ships dangled in your pretty little face.

Okay, I went a bit "Gary Oldman in 'The Fifth Element'" at points, there, but hopefully you get my meaning.

Where do I even begin with you?

One I offered a viable, credible alternative way for people who have spent a LOT of money on FFG Armada products, they already spent the cash, FFG aren't losing out implementing a reward system, that lets you either buy separate cards to a fixed amount, or claim a fixed amount of duplicates, per <value> spent, or they remove the you need a single copy of each card ruling, which is the only ONLY place this is an issue.

And yes you NEED the correct cards in duplicates to play in FFG official tournaments

Obviously you could not respond to me saying I love spending my money on Armada stuff, IE I spend a lot and I support my hobby willingly, what I find wasteful is buying a ship I do not want, just to get one card out of it, I have 2 Neb B's and 2 MC30's sat in their boxes, I opened them, took the cards I wanted, and threw the everything else back in the box it was delivered in, and that is where they will stay for all time, because I don't need them, I have zero use for them, sorry if I find that bad, sorry if my finding this bad offends your capitalistic view of the world.

We have already ascertained that the vast majority of people, don't buy extra, they lend, or do without if they want to play an official tournament, otherwise they just use one copy for the entire fleet, or they photo copy them....which is totally fine as far as FFG is concerned, they even tell you to do this, and that it is allowed.

So the question is, why you seem to feel that my opinion somehow makes me "anti" FFG, I see an area that is not great, and could be addressed to make it better, I posted a solution, not just some mindless rant, or that they change there entire business model, just one TINY facet of it. One that we have already agreed actually makes them very little in extra profit, due to you know the lending and photo copying, or not using them, or not playing in official tournaments.

I mean you feel FFG is prefect? beyond reproach? doesn't make mistakes? could not do things better in areas they work in? You seriously think this does not annoy customers? that people should not want to see a company they like, get better?

And for the record, I played Rogue Trader, I played Dark Heresy, I've played Deathwatch, I've played Black Crusade, I own most of the supplement books they released for all them games, I own more than a few FFG board games, I play Armada, I like FFG, I spend plenty of money on their products, that does not mean I cannot dislike the current rules system they enforce for official tournaments, and wished it would change, they are not mutually exclusive.

The lack of scenarios.

This game is literally built around scenarios designed to be flexible, interesting and balanced for an extremely diverse spectrum of potential lists. They're called objectives, they make each game dramatically different, and the game falls apart without them. What you should really be impressed about is that they managed to integrate scenarios into a competitive game so seamlessly that you're clamoring for scenarios despite them already being in the game.

The lack of scenarios.

This game is literally built around scenarios designed to be flexible, interesting and balanced for an extremely diverse spectrum of potential lists. They're called objectives, they make each game dramatically different, and the game falls apart without them. What you should really be impressed about is that they managed to integrate scenarios into a competitive game so seamlessly that you're clamoring for scenarios despite them already being in the game.

FFG's business model is just that a business model. I don't need 5 Nebulon-B's just for the upgrades but oddly enough, they are a lot of fun to play as a list. I wanted them. I wanted the capacity to build a list that could do something weird and I got it.

I have several lists of 4 MC30's (I wanted 5 when I figured out that they were speed 4 many many moons ago) and I got 4 of them. The fact that I get 2 cards in there that don't come elsewhere is a bonus for me.

Want to know the factor bringing everything together? I wanted dthese things. I did not need them to be competitive but I had fun.

Wait, you stopped at 4...?

No, no, stay right there, I just need to go... um... clean up a little before I let you in the gaming room...

You think this refutes my point? that was my point exactly, why do you think someone thought an alternative to CD's would be a real money maker? why do you think streaming sites like spofity happened and are so popular? why do you think you can buy virtually any song you want on Amazon as an mp3, without buying the whole CD, because....dun dun dun, there was a massive market demand for it.

Ok wait, I'm trying really hard to take you seriously, but I'm pretty sure you're just messing with me.

I can't avoid being rude by explaining it to you, so I'll just say that the comparison of Armada upgrades to CDs is a pretty stupid comparison.

Wait, you stopped at 4...?

No, no, stay right there, I just need to go... um... clean up a little before I let you in the gaming room...

I think the lack of any sort of narrative missions is a bit of a shame. These are easy to construct but I would like to see some sort of long-term system for capital ships. Actual scenarios, yeah, the game is well furnished.

Where do I even begin with you? ......

...

.......

I -

No, nevermind. I have better things to do.

Hah! No I don't, let's get stuck in.

Okay then, point by point:

A) FFG don't owe you sh************t, they already do a rewards system for loyal customers: all of those customers who have spent "a LOT of money on FFG Armada products" get, in return, a LOT of money's worth of FFG Armada products. If you feel you're being short-changed, you ought to stop spending so much money on it.

B) You don't "NEED the correct cards in duplicates to play in FFG official tournaments" - you WANT the correct cards so you can play a specific list. There is no NEED for you to run a 3 x ISD list, each with X17s and Leading Shots, you merely want to, consequently you don't NEED to buy 3 x Nebulon B expansions or 3 x Corellian Corvette expansions. You could just play a 3 x ISD list with Heavy Turbolaser Turrets and Electronic Countermeasures. You wouldn't need any other expansions then except the ships themselves - unless you object to having to buy an expansion for each ship duplicate you want, as well?

To clarify: this is a game about toy spaceships. There is no such thing as a "need" or a "requirement" in this context, beyond the most basic elements that go into playing the game. Absolutely no part of your life will fall apart if you don't have six copies of the X17, and no, not even the part of your life that's dedicated to Armada tournaments. You'll just have to work a little harder for those imaginary points.

C) If you find it bad that you "had" to buy two extra Nebulon Bs and two extra MC30s that you will never use, then guess what, I agree with you, it is bad, it's a total waste of both materials and money, and if you thought it was bad, why the everliving f*ck did you do it? Again - you didn't "NEED" the contents of those boxes except to gain some kind of perceived advantage at a toy spaceship tournament. My "capitalistic view of the world" isn't that you should have to buy those products, it's that if you don't want to, don't! Nobody is compelling you! You're inflicting this on yourself and then blaming FFG for making money off it!

D) I have found no point at which I put FFG beyond reproach, for anything except making money, which is what they're here to do. Your insistence on dealing in absolutes leads me to believe that you are definitely a Sith.

E) I don't give a crap about how much you have spent on FFG products, as previously established, your reward for doing so is owning those products. Neither do I mind you complaining about FFG's practices - just try not to do it with bullsh*t logic and made-up circumstances.

My true hope is that you're a Deity-level troll who's winding me up, in which case, my hat's off to you, good job - you have presented such a laughable and ridiculous set of reasoning and viewpoints that I honestly thought you were just doing it to annoy me at first.

And by the way, I'm a god **** socialist.

Cards I only need one of each to play the way we play around here. We don't make players have a copy for every ship using it in a game.

I just wish they would sell replacement stands so I can replace the ones I and players have broken on me when playing and the one broken when it hit the floor when I was unboxing it.

Cards I only need one of each to play the way we play around here. We don't make players have a copy for every ship using it in a game.

I just wish they would sell replacement stands so I can replace the ones I and players have broken on me when playing and the one broken when it hit the floor when I was unboxing it.

If the X-Wing versions work out, I'm sure Armada versions will follow shortly, maybe even in different colours!

Wow, I think I hit a nerve. I started by buying 2 of the starter sets so I'm never buying the ships in that as expansions. I have spent $40-50 on E-bay buying cards I wanted. The most recent being another redundant shield. My m-80 and M-30 had them and my AF2 felt left out. I do buy ship expansions, but it's the ships I want knowing I can pick up cards online later. All I'm saying is I'd rather give that money to FFG then to a guy with a cottage industry canalizing stuff bought cheep to break up. If they don't want to do it, I'll keep buying cards on e-bay

Not really, it's just that this brand of special-snowflakeism comes up on the X-Wing forum from time to time, usually from some amateur business analyst who thinks that they know FFG's business better than they do.

Cards I only need one of each to play the way we play around here. We don't make players have a copy for every ship using it in a game.

I just wish they would sell replacement stands so I can replace the ones I and players have broken on me when playing and the one broken when it hit the floor when I was unboxing it.

On a side note here, why is no one talking about their customer service? Back when Armada first came out they were giving away VSD models to those that did not have the little antenna pieces. I have heard that they replaced a full Assault Frigate, etc. So why don't they get props for that? What other company does that?

Cards I only need one of each to play the way we play around here. We don't make players have a copy for every ship using it in a game.

I just wish they would sell replacement stands so I can replace the ones I and players have broken on me when playing and the one broken when it hit the floor when I was unboxing it.

Doesn't their customer service replace stands?

On a side note here, why is no one talking about their customer service? Back when Armada first came out they were giving away VSD models to those that did not have the little antenna pieces. I have heard that they replaced a full Assault Frigate, etc. So why don't they get props for that? What other company does that?

Don't forget the lovely forums they provide, free sets of rules to down load, very cheap prize support.......

Not like some companies, which make you buy a whole new rule book every time they change an edition ( need a bit if cash flow).

The 40k rule books are gorgeous these days, in fairness. Like, proper swanky. It'd be good if they also released their rules for free online, though... I mean, they are "a miniatures company" after all...

The 40k rule books are gorgeous these days, in fairness. Like, proper swanky. It'd be good if they also released their rules for free online, though... I mean, they are "a miniatures company" after all...

Aren't they hardcover only now, though? That always seems like an excuse to charge more for their books. I can't deny that the art for them is fantastic, though.

I just don't understand how people can get so riled up about the upgrade cards. Do you think it's a perfectly fair way to distribute them? That's awesome. Does it frustrate you, and you wish they distributed them another way? That's fine, too!

Cards I only need one of each to play the way we play around here. We don't make players have a copy for every ship using it in a game.

I just wish they would sell replacement stands so I can replace the ones I and players have broken on me when playing and the one broken when it hit the floor when I was unboxing it.

Doesn't their customer service replace stands?

On a side note here, why is no one talking about their customer service? Back when Armada first came out they were giving away VSD models to those that did not have the little antenna pieces. I have heard that they replaced a full Assault Frigate, etc. So why don't they get props for that? What other company does that?

Don't forget the lovely forums they provide, free sets of rules to down load, very cheap prize support.......

As for 40k. They have always had beautiful products. . . Just not fair products.

In 40k, if you built your tactical squad sergeant with a chain sword and bolt pistol and wanted to use him at let's say Adepticon or a high level tournament (the equivalent of FFG Regionals and higher) but with a plasma pistol and power sword. . . Sorry but they may just not allow it. Now you have to either go online and buy the bitz to make another sergeant (cheaper method) or go buy a tactical squad box.

The 40k rule books are gorgeous these days, in fairness.

Sure, but I'd rather have a plain book with some simple illustrations for 1/3rd the price. If I really want a 40k art book I'll buy one of those.

Honestly with books like that, they make it pretty just to justify the cost.

I just don't understand how people can get so riled up about the upgrade cards. Do you think it's a perfectly fair way to distribute them? That's awesome. Does it frustrate you, and you wish they distributed them another way? That's fine, too!

Believe it or not, I rather feel it's a "nothing" issue. I just get frustrated with entitled points of view, and with bullsh't...

I want waves 3, 4, and 5 before I even consider card packs.

It won't be a deal breaker if either way. It just means I keep spending to the guy on E-bay who's breaking up expansions. I haven't played in any tournament yet, I just like to have the cards I'm using. Even had the fleet out by my laptop when trying to find a game on Vassal

I understand the attitude; I hardly ever play the game but like to have the cards for when I do. I couldn't bring myself to buy singles though, by the time you've bought a couple you may as well have paid for another expansion and have a sweet extra model to paint or modify as you please.

you can get card packs, they are just attached to ship models, it aint going to change so may as well get used to it

First off, there really isn't a requirement for anything...

Let me break it down for you since I think we might be talking past each other.

If I want to include X17 turbolasers on one of my ships, then I need the card for it. That's fine.

If I want to include X17 Turbolasers on TWO of my ships then I need TWO of that card. That is NOT fine and is the main reason why I will never participate in an official FFG event.

The extra card is entirely superfluous and the rule exists solely to promote sales of ships. And this attitude then bleeds over the casual games where players feel compelled to have all these redundant cards in environments where they aren't necessary. This rule is pretty much the entire reason this thread exists.

The Scenarios point - I mean, it's a tournament. It has to be balanced.

All major events for other systems manage to incorporate lots of different scenarios just fine. Granted this is less of an issue with Armada than it is with X Wing but it still frustrates me.

Believe it or not, I rather feel it's a "nothing" issue. I just get frustrated with entitled points of view, and with bullsh't...

You can always tell when people defending FFG run out of arguments because they just resort to 'Entitled! Entitled!'