I think if 2.0 were to happen, we'd see more dice colors added in, something like in Armada.

Warhamster had Strength vs. Toughness (and even a separate damage calculation), that wasn't too complicated.

And stop saying dumb things like X-Wing 2.0 people!

No books, no roster sheets, no god awful Warmachine or 40k/AoS throwback BS.

We've got a good thing going here, let's not **** it up.

FFG if you're reading this WE DO NOT WANT A REBOOT! I swear to god if you guys Age of X-Wing this game I will never support your company again. I mean it FFG. Don't mess with the X.

edit: And the three replies that come in while I type are pro-GW/PP rebootists?!

Auuuuugh!

edit: I'll breakfast this awful downturn in the convo so fast it'll make your griddle sizzle!

Darkcloak breakfasted first!

I wouldn't mind if there was an X-Wing 2.0 if it's actually better than 1.0

The deal breaker for me would be if I had to replace all of my ships.

It's all hypothetical

Thing is the problems with the basic math of this system trumps your intense passion v the other game systems

Of course, WHY you conflate them is beyond me. PP != GW and taking WM's dice != becoming wm or sigmar

I wouldn't mind if there was an X-Wing 2.0 if it's actually better than 1.0

The deal breaker for me would be if I had to replace all of my ships.

The cake is a lie dude. The reboot is never better than the original. To turn down that path leads only to revisionism and edition lock. You will have to re-buy all you ships. But you won't want to because you know it's not worth it and you'll just play X-Wing 3.5. The business will die out, only to be revived by moneygrubbing soul-wyrms a few years later. You'll pull out your old models and the kids will laugh at you for playing out-dated T-70s.

Do you really want children to laugh at you?

It's all hypothetical

Thing is the problems with the basic math of this system trumps your intense passion v the other game systems

Of course, WHY you conflate them is beyond me. PP != GW and taking WM's dice != becoming wm or sigmar

Man WM prime/primal kicks the **** out of the first version

GW sucks but that's because they could never write games for ****

Their dice killed them.

Edit: With four green dice, it's 15 percent, which is still pretty common as far as statistics go.

GW used to have a grip on it, but then they bought their own hype.

Warmachine was a product of it's own hype right from it's inception. I'm sorry but Page 5? Come on. That shows a game designer with his head so far up his own ass he thinks his eyes are brown. I don't think I've ever met a Warmachine player who didn't make me instantly want to punch them in the face the moment they started talking about their game system and how revolutionary it is.

What the ungodly **** does page 5 have to do with implementing their system of dice ?

What do you need a new dice system for?

Their dice killed them.

*quick math* You do realize the odds of blanking out on 3 green dice are just under 25%, right? Not exactly a statistical anomaly for a 2-dice ship to get the last damage in.

Edit: With four green dice, it's 15 percent, which is still pretty common as far as statistics go.

The thing about complaining about dice is, how did the game get to the point where that one bad roll completely ruined your entire game. Can you say with confidence that you made absolutely every decision up until that point 100% correctly? Or did you screw up somewhere along the way and now the "dice" are punishing you for it?

If it's the first scenario, yeah, sorry, a statistical anomaly found you.

If it's the second, it's up to you to learn from it, fly again, and get better.

Top-level players don't get there by writing off every game where a roll didn't go as planned. They do it by doing everything in their power to make sure they win even if a roll goes bad.

Complain less. Fly more.

Man WM prime/primal kicks the **** out of the first version

Definitely. It's possible to have version 2.0 games that are clear improvements.

...and then there's GW. 40k 3rd edition was probably more playable than 2nd (it was different), but I couldn't say with a straight face that any edition since then has been better. They've all been... different.

Okay so I get a little dramatic. Just remember it's only just that. Dramatics. Read the sig. I don't usually have one of those, or an avatar, but I figure I better remind people with every post that hey, I'm mostly here to have fun.

That being said though. GW may have been great back in the day, but their convoluted system just made it the mess it is today. The only solution they saw was to kill one of their flagship brands and replace it. I don't think X-Wing could really end up this way, but it could through mismanagement and the usual corporate BS. People hail Privateer Press as the savior of mini wargaming, bu in truth those die hard fans are just in for another roller coaster ride. I mean the game doesn't do away with imbalance, it merely pushes the limitations so far beyond powergaming that this is simply the way you play. Heaven help anyone who doesn't get that or wants to play a "fluffy" game of Warmachine. It's even in the rules of conduct, play to win at all times. I'd hate to see where that mentality leads when that's the mentality you start with.

So, I'm sorry if my knee jerk reaction to incorporating elements of powergaming (PP) or needless complexity (GW) is one of abject breakfast related violence and harshly typed blasts of ulcer fueled coffee rage...

I don't mean it, really...

Edit: I'll add that I played both PP and GW games pretty extensively and have a cabinet of shame to show for it, so I know exactly what I'm talking about. I also did a stint as a crazy eyed party animal. Guess which old habits I'd rather go back to every now and then? Hint, it rhymes with bzanimals.

Man WM prime/primal kicks the **** out of the first version

Definitely. It's possible to have version 2.0 games that are clear improvements.

...and then there's GW. 40k 3rd edition was probably more playable than 2nd (it was different), but I couldn't say with a straight face that any edition since then has been better. They've all been... different.

Other miniatures games are a bit different since new sculpts for old units can create a hobby opportunity. Most are also their own IP, so new units are interesting in and of themselves where releases in X-wing often dip into the more obscure and move away (and sometimes make obsolete) the more well-known ships.

I am also having a very hard time picturing how they will create a 2.0 for this game that will both be profitable to them and won't simply be asking consumers to essentially re-purchase pretty much exactly what they've already bought in terms of models because they are making changes to the text.

GW used to have a grip on it, but then they bought their own hype.

Warmachine was a product of it's own hype right from it's inception. I'm sorry but Page 5? Come on. That shows a game designer with his head so far up his own ass he thinks his eyes are brown. I don't think I've ever met a Warmachine player who didn't make me instantly want to punch them in the face the moment they started talking about their game system and how revolutionary it is.

Every warmachine player I have ever met smells so bad of cigarettes, sweat and is a complete freakshow. Nice enough fellas just... really.... hygienically disgusting people.

Their dice killed them.

*quick math* You do realize the odds of blanking out on 3 green dice are just under 25%, right? Not exactly a statistical anomaly for a 2-dice ship to get the last damage in.

Edit: With four green dice, it's 15 percent, which is still pretty common as far as statistics go.

Total blank-out at 3 dice?

3 evades

3 blanks

2 eyeballs

*quick math*

3\8 chance to blank

9\64 chance to doubleblank

27\512 chance to tripleblank

81\4096 chance to make Soontir cry.

basically rolling 4 blanks is just as likely as rolling 4 evades.

average soontie roll is 1,5 evades naturally, 2,5 with evade

and in most cases you're not even rolling the red dice... freaking dodgewing

Man WM prime/primal kicks the **** out of the first version

Definitely. It's possible to have version 2.0 games that are clear improvements.

...and then there's GW. 40k 3rd edition was probably more playable than 2nd (it was different), but I couldn't say with a straight face that any edition since then has been better. They've all been... different.

Other miniatures games are a bit different since new sculpts for old units can create a hobby opportunity. Most are also their own IP, so new units are interesting in and of themselves where releases in X-wing often dip into the more obscure and move away (and sometimes make obsolete) the more well-known ships.

I am also having a very hard time picturing how they will create a 2.0 for this game that will both be profitable to them and won't simply be asking consumers to essentially re-purchase pretty much exactly what they've already bought in terms of models because they are making changes to the text.

They'd have to do the "unthinkable" and release 2.0 cardpacks ala warmachine

Sold by the faction, containing all units then released only updated to their 2.0 form

Man WM prime/primal kicks the **** out of the first version

Definitely. It's possible to have version 2.0 games that are clear improvements.

...and then there's GW. 40k 3rd edition was probably more playable than 2nd (it was different), but I couldn't say with a straight face that any edition since then has been better. They've all been... different.

Other miniatures games are a bit different since new sculpts for old units can create a hobby opportunity. Most are also their own IP, so new units are interesting in and of themselves where releases in X-wing often dip into the more obscure and move away (and sometimes make obsolete) the more well-known ships.

I am also having a very hard time picturing how they will create a 2.0 for this game that will both be profitable to them and won't simply be asking consumers to essentially re-purchase pretty much exactly what they've already bought in terms of models because they are making changes to the text.

They'd have to do the "unthinkable" and release 2.0 cardpacks ala warmachine

Sold by the faction, containing all units then released only updated to their 2.0 form

And never sell another expac ever again. Why pay FFG at all at that point? Just ebay the card pack you want, ebay the naked ships you want. Play the game to your hearts content. No reason to give FFG another dime for an expac again.

Oh that explains why war machine never sold again

Never got any new players, nor any old players who wanted to buy a ship from the old lineup that they did not own because it sucked in 1.0

As a long time gamer, and avid studier of game design, I don't know how this isn't just an understood thing. As I put it, it's a law of game design that states: "For any game that has expanding content, power creep will occur."

This game has power creep. Period. It follows that law. It's not as apparent until you go to get someone new into the game and they ask you how to build a list and you look through their upgrades like wow... I can't do anything with these. It's natural to have that. What's important is to control it's speed. Which they do a fairly good job of, though it's slipping a little as of late.

All of those ships needed those adjustments...that's why hardly anyone was playing them. The Inquisitor has a good ability but no ship is good enough that it is seen "99%" of the time.

Everyone needs to calm their **** about fixing this or broken that. FFG has never even hinted of ignoring ships left behind or allowing a ship to dominate the meta. Furthermore, FFG has never taken a fix idea from these forums. Let FFG do what FFG has been doing. Which is producing a great game.

Eh ehm...Cough*Soontir Fel* cough ehm.