I've seen this debated in previous threads.

Just wondering what the overall census was on a few things.

Since according to the tractor beam article came out we are told that you can barrel roll your opponent on to an asteroid.

(yes I know articles been wrong in the past but when that's all you have to go on its best to do as mentioned until otherwise they come out and change which I hope they've learned their lesson by now)

So if I barrel roll fel onto a rock with tractor beam

Does he roll for damage?

I assumed yes on this because your throwing him into a rock. It's how my friends and I, and also people on vassal have been playing as we all seemed to agree it just makes sense.

When on the rock can he still shoot?

Again we been playing as no because as of now you cannot shot while on a rock, so unless otherwise instructed or faq most that I've played with have agreed.

Can I barrel roll you out of the board.

This happened the other night and this kind of stumped me.

My opponent just barely flew out of the board but I didn't want to win that way so I allowed it to be in.

Of coarse at this point I could have barrel rolled him out, but honestly I didn't know if I could.

I didn't want to have to debate or start looking up rules.

But if you can go against the official rules and now barrel roll someone onto a rock, then I see no reason why you couldn't barrel roll them out of bounds.

Sounds pretty nasty and it is really. I've been having a lot of success with vessery and tractor beam as of late. But I am curious what the majority felt was correct.

Of coarse the majority can be wrong but It be nice to be on the same page as everyone else.

I know in the new core rules it states when you do a maneuver you roll for dmg, no action and can't attack and that was the debate.

But since tb isn't a maneuver people suggest those rules don't apply.

If that's the case that's a huge blow to tractor beam

It still has its uses, but if that became the official ruling that really tones it down quite a bit. It has saved me numerous times. For example I took my buddies stressbot and put it on a rock before it got to shoot, saving me from double stress and was able to kill it next round.

Many times when I've hit with tractor beam it was putting my opponent on a rock that kept it from shooting at me. It wouldn't have mattered if I barrel rolled left or right, or boosted. Many times he still had a shot,so rocks it was.

Also tb works best on high ps ships. Since you want your low ps ships to fire after. So putting it on a blue squadron and then having Biggs and Wedge in there isn't going to get the full advantage of the tractor beam, and because of this I find it very hard to put it on something other than vessery.

I'm just curious has the community decided on what rules should apply, or is the community still split on that.

My personal opinion is what I mentioned above.

Just because tb is a new upgrade and the first of its kind that allows the opponent to move his enemy ship.it's technically not a maneuver, but the rules were written long before tb was released.

(And I know some will argue well it was being play tested when they did the new core set, and maybe so, but if something is in development when rules are being written how do we know things were not over looked or maybe it's just a error on their part.

With so many rules lawyers out there they should get us to play test stuff lol. We always seem to find the loopholes lol)

...anyways though it's not a maneuver, and if they faq it that you could still shoot etc etc then it really loses its benefit.

Yes you can put them on a rock. No debate there it says it right on the card.

You should not roll for damage. It's not a maneuver as specifically stated on the rules card.

No you cannot barrel roll or boost them off the board. The rules say you can't and the card does not specifically overrule this like it does for rocks.

OK but what about the ship getting to shoot?

If it doesn't roll for dmg then does that mean it still gets to attack?

OK but what about the ship getting to shoot?

If it doesn't roll for dmg then does that mean it still gets to attack?

They cannot shoot while on asteroids.

OK I just re read the article about tractor beams and this is what it says

"Forcing your opponent's ship through this boost or barrel roll does not count as an action or a maneuver, and you can force the ship to overlap obstacles, meaning that if you catch your opponent's ship in the right spot, you can potentially deny it the chance to fire and perform actions in the following round. Moreover, you may get as many as two points of damage out of the collisions, depending on the results of your opponent's attack dice."

So according to this article is suggests that it's possible for said ship to possibly take two dmg.

So that would have to be from 1) landing on the rocks and 2) next round have the template cross over the rock

Also says it can deny your opponent the chance to fire and actions next round.

So I feel that you should roll for dmg and not able to shoot.

But again if the majority fel otherwise I'll just play sheep for now lol

I've been playing it as "Roll for damage when you land on it" on Vassal, as that was what the article implied, and it makes a certain amount of thematic sense to me. That said:

Yes you can put them on a rock. No debate there it says it right on the card.

You should not roll for damage. It's not a maneuver as specifically stated on the rules card.

No you cannot barrel roll or boost them off the board. The rules say you can't and the card does not specifically overrule this like it does for rocks.

I'm inclined to agree with the bolded interpretation of the RAW on the card. However. I disagree with the statement that follows because that the card does explicitly state it's not an action (i.e. Boost or Barrel Roll) therefore it is not limited by the fact that those two actions prevent a ship from going off the board. So, I'm in the "Yes, you can throw a ship off the board" camp.

The article certainly makes it seem like they'd take a damage from being placed on the asteroid, but articles have been wrong before. Best to play it strictly RAW and then if they later errata it to say that the barrel roll or boost in fact IS a maneuver, you can just think of it as a bonus.

The article certainly makes it seem like they'd take a damage from being placed on the asteroid, but articles have been wrong before. Best to play it strictly RAW and then if they later errata it to say that the barrel roll or boost in fact IS a maneuver, you can just think of it as a bonus.

And that's the question lol

I know they've been wrong but again if it doesn't take dmg then I'm inclined to think it still shoots.

I'm thinking though after the slam fiasco article they got their **** together.

I mean it's false advertising and they need to be extra careful.

I'd be not happy to buy more than one then find out its not as they advertise.

Like some who bought multiple kwing

The possible damage is coming from the next round's manuevers.... at just the right spot- so the Beamed ship must travel thru the rock/ debris and suffer damage rolled and other neg effects.

Seems clear in the article.

Edit: meant to point out that 2 damage happens if a crit is rolled and you get a direct hit when rolling for damage getting off rock/cloud.

And that's the question lol

I know they've been wrong but again if it doesn't take dmg then I'm inclined to think it still shoots

I'm curious, why do you think it'd still be able to shoot after being put on the rock? I can see the not taking damage bit, since that's during the movement/activation phase (and not being classified as a maneuver it's not necessarily bound by those constraints), but shooting is during the combat phase. Quite frankly, it doesn't matter how or when you got on the rock that prevents you from shooting during combat, just that you are on a rock .

And that's the question lol

I know they've been wrong but again if it doesn't take dmg then I'm inclined to think it still shoots

I'm curious, why do you think it'd still be able to shoot after being put on the rock? I can see the not taking damage bit, since that's during the movement/activation phase (and not being classified as a maneuver it's not necessarily bound by those constraints), but shooting is during the combat phase. Quite frankly, it doesn't matter how or when you got on the rock that prevents you from shooting during combat, just that you are on a rock .

Imagine this:

The Barrel Roll puts the TB'd ship out of arc- denying the ship a chance to fire.

And that's the question lol

I know they've been wrong but again if it doesn't take dmg then I'm inclined to think it still shoots

I'm curious, why do you think it'd still be able to shoot after being put on the rock? I can see the not taking damage bit, since that's during the movement/activation phase (and not being classified as a maneuver it's not necessarily bound by those constraints), but shooting is during the combat phase. Quite frankly, it doesn't matter how or when you got on the rock that prevents you from shooting during combat, just that you are on a rock .

Keyword "potentially"

Imagine this:

The Barrel Roll puts the TB'd ship out of arc- denying the ship a chance to fire.

Then it would be (as pointed out to me on the rules forum) a case similar to Turr Phennir shooting and moving out of arc at the same PS of another pilot. I still don't see how any of this, short of having Dash Rendar crew, allows a ship to return fire while sitting on a rock.

The possible damage is coming from the next round's manuevers.... at just the right spot- so the Beamed ship must travel thru the rock/ debris and suffer damage rolled and other neg effects.

Seems clear in the article.

Edit: meant to point out that 2 damage happens if a crit is rolled and you get a direct hit when rolling for damage getting off rock/cloud.

Obviously it's suggesting roll dmg for being put on the rock and again next round if template crosses over

And that's the question lol

I know they've been wrong but again if it doesn't take dmg then I'm inclined to think it still shoots

I'm curious, why do you think it'd still be able to shoot after being put on the rock? I can see the not taking damage bit, since that's during the movement/activation phase (and not being classified as a maneuver it's not necessarily bound by those constraints), but shooting is during the combat phase. Quite frankly, it doesn't matter how or when you got on the rock that prevents you from shooting during combat, just that you are on a rock .

Since it's not a maneuver people may argue that it still gets to shoot

Though everyone I played with have all agrees, roll for dmg and can't shoot

Page 14, swx36_rulesreference.pdf:

"When a ship executes a maneuver, if its base or maneuver template overlaps an obstacle token, it executes its maneuver as normal but suffers an effect based on the type of obstacle:"

Since tractor beam does not force the ship to perform a maneuver, no damage roll occurs and no damage is taken. When the ship performs a maneuver next turn, it would roll for damage and lose its action if the template overlaps.

Same page:

" While a ship is overlapping an asteroid, it cannot perform any attacks."

This is not timing-restricted to the activation phase, so a ship that tractor beam forces onto an asteroid IMMEDIATELY becomes unable to fire.

Yay. Another thread with exactly the same arguments everyone has been making since the article came out!

It'l get FAQ'd

'Til then, we agree that it does, in fact, rule.

The consensus, to the extent that there is one, is that the intent is that you are supposed to roll for damage, but the RAW currently is that you don't.

There is no doubt that you cannot fire while on an asteroid, that is totally clear.

Page 14, swx36_rulesreference.pdf:

"When a ship executes a maneuver, if its base or maneuver template overlaps an obstacle token, it executes its maneuver as normal but suffers an effect based on the type of obstacle:"

Since tractor beam does not force the ship to perform a maneuver, no damage roll occurs and no damage is taken. When the ship performs a maneuver next turn, it would roll for damage and lose its action if the template overlaps.

Same page:

" While a ship is overlapping an asteroid, it cannot perform any attacks."

This is not timing-restricted to the activation phase, so a ship that tractor beam forces onto an asteroid IMMEDIATELY becomes unable to fire.

It's just the article states otherwise. If they didbt fudge up their other articles we probably would just go by that, but since in the past they've messes up we are left wondering which is correct.

As good as things are with ffg, that is pretty sloppy for a big company to mess up.

Time to get their **** straight

The big question is how did they intend it when designing.

According to the article the ship still roles for dmg

Ya guess this is my bad for bringing it up

I was kind of hoping for a straight answer but turned into this

Sorry everyone

Let's just ignore this thread.

Seems the community is still somewhat divided?

Maybe not

Maybe I'm just to tired to see it right now

Will check back and see what majority says

Looks like go by the rule book for now till something else is said

So no rolling for dmg.

That's cool. I think only 1 ship ever took A dmg out the the dozen times or so that I put on a rock lol

But I would like to know about throwing a ship off board

As stated it's not a maneuver or action. So what is it then?

Can you put your opponent's ship off the board?

I've been playing it as "Roll for damage when you land on it" on Vassal, as that was what the article implied, and it makes a certain amount of thematic sense to me. That said:

Yes you can put them on a rock. No debate there it says it right on the card.

You should not roll for damage. It's not a maneuver as specifically stated on the rules card.

No you cannot barrel roll or boost them off the board. The rules say you can't and the card does not specifically overrule this like it does for rocks.

I'm inclined to agree with the bolded interpretation of the RAW on the card. However. I disagree with the statement that follows because that the card does explicitly state it's not an action (i.e. Boost or Barrel Roll) therefore it is not limited by the fact that those two actions prevent a ship from going off the board. So, I'm in the "Yes, you can throw a ship off the board" camp.

However, the card does state it's a boost or barrel roll.

http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/xwing-miniatures/images/7/70/Swx41_tractorbeam-reference.png/revision/latest?cb=20160113000950

And considering they changed the ruling a few months ago about boosting/barrel rolling off the board, you can't force your opponent's ship off the board directly with a boost or barrel roll.

So, the Tractor Beam forces the opponent's ship (done by the person who used the TB) to do a Non-Action, Non-Maneuver boost or barrel roll that can overlap obstacles but not ships.

If we look in the new Rules Reference guide:

OBSTACLES

Obstacles acts as hazards that can disrupt and damage ships. When a ship executes a maneuver, if its base or maneuver template overlaps an obstacle token, it executes its maneuver as normal but suffers an effect based on the type of obstacle:

• Asteroid: The ship must skip its “Perform Action” step this round. After skipping the “Perform Action” step, it rolls one attack die. On a result, the ship suffers one damage; on a result, it suffers one critical damage. While a ship is overlapping an asteroid, it cannot perform any attacks.

• Debris Cloud†: After the “Check Pilot Stress” step, the ship receives one stress token. After the “Perform Action” step, it rolls one attack die. On a result, the ship suffers one crit

Note some key words. When a ship executes a maneuver, it suffers the following effects. The boost/barrel roll is NOT a maneuver, so no damage rolled.

However, the second clause triggers while overlapping an asteroid. You cannot perform any attacks. Therefore, you land on an asteroid due to Tractor Beam, no damage, but you cannot attack.

Furthermore, case of Boosting/Barrel Rolling off the board:

A ship cannot boost if this would cause the ship to flee the battlefield.

• A ship cannot barrel roll if this would cause the ship to flee the battlefield.

Now, it also states the boost/barrel roll does not count as a maneuver in the rule books, but has clauses in place that says you cannot do them over obstacles. Again. Tractor Beam overrides this second part. However, it does not override the Fleeing the Battlefield clause.

-----

Therefore, as the rules read now:

You CAN be boosted/barrel rolled onto obstacles but NOT ships due to Tractor Beam.

You do NOT roll for damage landing on obstacles due to Tractor Beam.

If you are on an asteroid due to Tractor Beam, you can NOT attack.

You can NOT be directly forced to flee the battlefield by a Boost or Barrel Roll due to Tractor Beam.

OK I just re read the article about tractor beams and this is what it says

"Forcing your opponent's ship through this boost or barrel roll does not count as an action or a maneuver, and you can force the ship to overlap obstacles, meaning that if you catch your opponent's ship in the right spot, you can potentially deny it the chance to fire and perform actions in the following round. Moreover, you may get as many as two points of damage out of the collisions, depending on the results of your opponent's attack dice."

So according to this article is suggests that it's possible for said ship to possibly take two dmg.

So that would have to be from 1) landing on the rocks and 2) next round have the template cross over the rock

Also says it can deny your opponent the chance to fire and actions next round.

So I feel that you should roll for dmg and not able to shoot.

But again if the majority fel otherwise I'll just play sheep for now lol

The article certainly makes it seem like they'd take a damage from being placed on the asteroid, but articles have been wrong before. Best to play it strictly RAW and then if they later errata it to say that the barrel roll or boost in fact IS a maneuver, you can just think of it as a bonus.

Exactly articles have been wrong before. But there is nothing that say you can't barrel roll/ Boost them on a rock with the front guides still on it thus forcing the ship to make a roll. If you push a ship to where it cannot avoid an asteroid roll check you could do some damage.

As for 2 well the damage deck has the major explosions and direct hits so yeah you could do 3 or anywhere up to 4 off of a crit if the dice and cards work to your favor.

The possible damage is coming from the next round's manuevers.... at just the right spot- so the Beamed ship must travel thru the rock/ debris and suffer damage rolled and other neg effects.

Seems clear in the article.

Edit: meant to point out that 2 damage happens if a crit is rolled and you get a direct hit when rolling for damage getting off rock/cloud.

That's not how it's implied by the article

Obviously it's suggesting roll dmg for being put on the rock and again next round if template crosses over

That's how it sounds to me. Makes the most sense.

Also you cannot shoot while on a rock. That's always true no matter how you got on that rock.

"When a ship executes a maneuver," needs to be stricken from the rules for sake of clarity. I believe that clause was written at a time when executing a maneuver was the ONLY way to cause an obstacle overlap. Tractor beam (not a maneuver) represents a new way to cause obstacle overlap, and so the card rules ammend the rulebook. This is supported by the article. TB on an obstacle means roll for damage, no shot, and possibly second rill for damage if overlap of template on subsequent move.

I believe that TB creates a new effect that borrows existing terminology, thus the confusion. It's neither a maneuver, nor a barrel roll, hence a different mechanic with different restrictions. The way my little community has been using it is yes to immediate obstacle damage roll, yes to shot denial, no to pushed off the edge of the universe. But of course we'll change to whatever the powers that be decided when the official ruling come in.

No where in the article does it imply you roll when you first get on the rock nor do the rules support this assertion.