Given the sluggishness of the Victory, the low squadron command and survivability of the Raider, and the expense of the ISD, choices seem some what limited.

What ships have you seen Imperial player run alongside their bomber wings?

ISD and a pair of Vics.

Sluggish is Relative.

Assuming the gold standard that is: Vader, Dengar, Rhymer, 4x Firesprays..

I always take Motti in ISD-II + 2x Raiders or 1x Gladiator or 1x Victory. But if you run the Glad, you have to bid high, since you don't have that many hull points to play with.

The Raiders offer superior anti-squadron coverage so you can counter your opponent's squadrons that tie up your Fireball, the Gladiator is for damage spikes to suppress for Avenger, and the Victory allows greater flexibility in how you use your squadrons (notice the 4+3 squadron command that fits perfectly here). Not to mention the VSD also has a hefty amount of HP with Motti, and can always take Needa for virtually no cost to suppress damage further.

I have run a fireball several times and my favorite build is:

Admiral: Ozzel (20 pts)

ISD-II: gunnery team, ECM (134 pts)

ISD-II: gunnery team, ECM (134 pts)

Punishing One (20 pts)

Darth Vader (21 pts)

Major Rhymer (16 pts)

Firespray x 3 (54 pts)

The two ISD-II with gunnery teams make a great firing line together and if fighters try to flank, they both bring two blue AF dice, which can help quite a bit to break fighter scrums. I like Ozzel better than Motti just because jumping from speed 1 to 3 or breaking from 3-1 just from a token is absolutely gross on ISD's. Normally I start at speed 1 or 3 (play it by ear). Turn one is a navigate bank, turn two is a engineering bank, turn three is a navigate again which is generally spent as normal (normally at this point I need to turn/speed up/slow down to keep things in front of me). Turns 4-6 you have to play be ear, but I do pretty well with just navigates and engineering. The fireball gives you the ability to keep your ISD's outside of red dice range and still put out hurt. Meanwhile if your opponent engages the fireball with their fighters but doesn't bring up their ships, two ISD's throwing two blue each will shred the opposing screen. Yes, this does take careful movement, but it is actually pretty easy once you get the hang of it. Also Ozzel is insanely helpful to make the ISD's dance across the board. I tried running Motti, but I had to give up one of the firesprays to fit him in since I would never leave home without at least a gunnery team and ECM on an ISD. When I did run Motti I ran:

Admiral: Motti(24 pts)

ISD-II: gunnery team, ECM, Tractor Beams (140 pts)

ISD-II: gunnery team, ECM, Relentless, Tractor Beams (143 pts)

Punishing One (20 pts)

Darth Vader (21 pts)

Major Rhymer (16 pts)

Firespray x 2 (36 pts)

It played OK, but I really think the third firespray makes the fireball so much more powerful (6 blue at medium range). The tractor beams were nice to prevent little ships from flanking, but Ozzel plays more to my style.

List I've been messing with:

Black Is the New Black

2 x ISD I, boosted comms, OrdExp (1 of them is Ozzel's flag)

1 x raider I, OrdExp

5 x TIE/sa

1 x Busta Rhymerz

1 x Dengar

1 x TIE/adv

The idea: ignore fighters and chuck buckets of black dice from super-extended range. Season enemy fighters with Raider and ISD ack-ack. Clean up with a jump to speed 3 and unloading of re-rollable blacks (I'm assuming the raider died somewhere in there).

Two of my three opponents over the weekend played versions of this. One had VSD/GSD/GSD and the other had ISD/GSD/RDR. I don't think there's a "right" choice to play a Rhymerspray with.

Two of my three opponents over the weekend played versions of this. One had VSD/GSD/GSD and the other had ISD/GSD/RDR. I don't think there's a "right" choice to play a Rhymerspray with.

Curious about the ISD/GSD/RDR fleet. I would think that with a bomber wing, you'd want to sit back and through that at your opponent while keeping your ships safe from reprisal. The GSD, on the other hand, is very much an aggro ship. Especially with the Demolisher title. How did your opponent play that fleet?

Rhymerspray

24th Expeditionary Survey - 399pts

Imperial-II - 120 pts

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  Admiral Motti - 24pts

  
  
  
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  Wing Commander - 6pts

  
  
  
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  Gunnery Team - 7pts

  
  
  
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  Boosted Comms - 4pts

  
  
  
• 
  

  Electronic Counter Measures - 7pts

  
  
  
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  XI-7 Turbolasers - 6pts

  
  
  
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  SW-7 Ion Batteries - 5pts

  
  
  

Raider-II - 48pts

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  Veteran Captain - 3pts

  
  
  
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  SW-7 Ion Batteries - 5pts

  
  
  

Raider-II - 48pts

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  Veteran Captain - 3pts

  
  
  
• 
  

  SW-7 Ion Batteries - 5pts

  
  
  

Major Rhymer - 16 pts

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  Dengar - 20pts

  
  
  
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  Firespray-31[x4] - 18pts[72pts]

  
  
  

OBJECTIVES: Precision Strike, Fleet Ambush, Superior Positions

The idea is that the fleet needs to be able to respond to anything anyway, so initiative shouldn't matter if it is mitigated properly. Objectives are the most obvious way to do this, and sometimes people will choose you to go first so you have to use their objectives over your own. However, deployment, obstacle placement, and maneuvering can all contribute to a cumulative advantage that is hard to overcome - if you take out one piece of many, not much changes.

Two of my three opponents over the weekend played versions of this. One had VSD/GSD/GSD and the other had ISD/GSD/RDR. I don't think there's a "right" choice to play a Rhymerspray with.

Curious about the ISD/GSD/RDR fleet. I would think that with a bomber wing, you'd want to sit back and through that at your opponent while keeping your ships safe from reprisal. The GSD, on the other hand, is very much an aggro ship. Especially with the Demolisher title. How did your opponent play that fleet?

Well, the way I played it was using Ozzel to creep along until the right time and then boom, not creeping anymore. The GSD and Raider are basically disposable burst damage, and after they are dead people are left wondering how their ships are dying to the little Fireball.

I made a howling error while playing Drunk Tarkin in that I had a crippled gladiator in the full front arc of my ISD2 and instead of sending my squadron commanded bombers against his demolisher while the GSD was disintigrated by the ISD, i sent my bombers after the crippled ship and shot at nothing AT ALL with my front arc. I guess i was tired, but in retrospect playing that one activation like a not braindead idiot could have made the match go a good bit better.

I blame Drunk Tarkin for throwing me off my game by saying mean things about my moms personal hygiene and constantly pointing out my unibrow and making caveman noises. He also called me a "Canadian" on multiple occasions and at one point virtually threw a speed dial at me.

Home One auto-accuracy + VSD lack of ECM + XI7s = Dead VSD. Difficult to keep them alive in the current meta. I keep hearing fighters are the counter to Akbar but haven't seen how to deal with this.

Home One auto-accuracy + VSD lack of ECM + XI7s = Dead VSD. Difficult to keep them alive in the current meta. I keep hearing fighters are the counter to Akbar but haven't seen how to deal with this.

Using the above fleet I beat both Ackbar lists I faced (6-4 and 7-3) Im not sold on VSDs either but I am in love with ISDs and Demolisher with Ozzel. I think he is under-appreciated and for being the cheapest admiral he might have some of the best utility in the game.

Home One auto-accuracy + VSD lack of ECM + XI7s = Dead VSD. Difficult to keep them alive in the current meta. I keep hearing fighters are the counter to Akbar but haven't seen how to deal with this.

I am getting some what irked by seeing this statement posted with increasing regularity around here (nothing against you personally SomeKittens.)

The only Imperial ship currently capable of taking ECM is the Imperial II, the Imperial I cannot, the VSD I&II cannot, the GSD I&II cannot, and neither can either version of the Raider class, which means out of 4 ship types 8 variants one of 8 can. So unless Imperial players are supposed to use nothing but Imperial Class II ships, guess what? you ain't getting ECM on your ships as an Imperial player.

I am not suffering in games due to lack of ECM, Ackbar is easy to counter with the right build, and it is a build that is very competitive against the other Rebel choices, so its not a specialised for Ackbar, junk against anything else fleet. my last 4 games were 2 10-0 wins, a 6-4 loss, and a 6-4 win, and only used a single Imp II once, in them four games.

Home One auto-accuracy + VSD lack of ECM + XI7s = Dead VSD. Difficult to keep them alive in the current meta. I keep hearing fighters are the counter to Akbar but haven't seen how to deal with this.

I am getting some what irked by seeing this statement posted with increasing regularity around here (nothing against you personally SomeKittens.)

The only Imperial ship currently capable of taking ECM is the Imperial II, the Imperial I cannot, the VSD I&II cannot, the GSD I&II cannot, and neither can either version of the Raider class, which means out of 4 ship types 8 variants one of 8 can. So unless Imperial players are supposed to use nothing but Imperial Class II ships, guess what? you ain't getting ECM on your ships as an Imperial player.

I am not suffering in games due to lack of ECM, Ackbar is easy to counter with the right build, and it is a build that is very competitive against the other Rebel choices, so its not a specialised for Ackbar, junk against anything else fleet. my last 4 games were 2 10-0 wins, a 6-4 loss, and a 6-4 win, and only used a single Imp II once, in them four games.

you make a good point, and its important to remember that it is dangerous to be overly reductionist in a game with this amount of depth and options in execution. For me, personally the VSD is not a go-to ship, but you are right that in the right hands with the right build and intent and skill it is foolish to discount the VSD wholesale.

I am running

Ozzel

4 x Gladiator 1 with Engine Techs and a few other bits

5 Firesprays and Fett.

Rhymer isn't needed :-)

I am running

Ozzel

4 x Gladiator 1 with Engine Techs and a few other bits

5 Firesprays and Fett.

Ŵ

Rhymer isn't needed :-)

That list does look fun. Think i saw you posted it in the fleet builds sub forum.

Two of my three opponents over the weekend played versions of this. One had VSD/GSD/GSD and the other had ISD/GSD/RDR. I don't think there's a "right" choice to play a Rhymerspray with.

How'd you fare against them?

My current list is:

ISD II; Motti, Avenger, ECMs, XI7s

ISD II; Flight Controllers, Boosted Comms, ECMs, XI7s Overload Pulse

Rhymer, Dengar, TIE Advanced, 2x Firespray