Yeah, it's sort of weird. A good portion of the players (myself included) who try the FO immediately love them. It's not a slow acceptance of their qualities over several games, it's one game and they fall hard for that dial.

Probably the same reason why the MA-3 Scyk is getting bagged on. 14 points does not make for good filler/swarm ships no matter how much better they are star wise against the 12 point ship. The TIE/FO is 15 points base, thus it at the same level of a Chardaan prototype. However despite the S-loop it doesn't have the maneuverability and is a little softer than the A-wing so in terms of value TIE/FO < A-wing.

FO is far more maneuverable than an A-Wing IMO. Dat 2 segnors girl, mhmmm

I know im coming a little late into this. I guess from my own experinces i dont see why a discussion of TLTs are relevant with a discussion on the Tie/fo. I have found the tlt lists i have come across it has never really factored in what im flying in as much as your ability to manage range.

I love flying the Tie/fo and have had a lot of success with these guys. When you compare yhem with the standard tie, the fo dial has to be one of the best in the game. That sloop allows for some interesting positioning. Not to mention the boost of having a shield giving them that extra hit point. It doesnt seem like much. But 4 hit points behind agi 3 is a tad better than 3 behind 3 agi of the tie.

I have found that 4 zeta fo compared to the 5 obsidian tie i used to run is stronger defensively for the same points roughly. And as a result in the longer game over the first few rounds that extra survivabily makes up for that one less ship offensively.

Just my thoughts. I recently took a fel and 4 zeta list to a tourney and after 5 rounds of swiss was undefeated and there were a few games against tlt and some strong meta lists.

Probably the same reason why the MA-3 Scyk is getting bagged on. 14 points does not make for good filler/swarm ships no matter how much better they are star wise against the 12 point ship. The TIE/FO is 15 points base, thus it at the same level of a Chardaan prototype. However despite the S-loop it doesn't have the maneuverability and is a little softer than the A-wing so in terms of value TIE/FO < A-wing.

But it's not a swarmer.

FO is far more maneuverable than an A-Wing IMO. Dat 2 segnors girl, mhmmm

:lol:

Ma' Boy!

Probably the same reason why the MA-3 Scyk is getting bagged on. 14 points does not make for good filler/swarm ships no matter how much better they are star wise against the 12 point ship. The TIE/FO is 15 points base, thus it at the same level of a Chardaan prototype. However despite the S-loop it doesn't have the maneuverability and is a little softer than the A-wing so in terms of value TIE/FO < A-wing.

But it's not a swarmer.

Nah it's a mean-ass Killah!

Probably the same reason why the MA-3 Scyk is getting bagged on. 14 points does not make for good filler/swarm ships no matter how much better they are star wise against the 12 point ship. The TIE/FO is 15 points base, thus it at the same level of a Chardaan prototype. However despite the S-loop it doesn't have the maneuverability and is a little softer than the A-wing so in terms of value TIE/FO < A-wing.

Scyk is not bagged.

it was tea-bagged by game designers even before it hit the shelves

hell, it has been tea-partied SO HARD that even it's title scyks and even a gun that has Scyk on it scyks!

A-wing has a God-Sent Boost! Oh the blocking!

Probably the same reason why the MA-3 Scyk is getting bagged on. 14 points does not make for good filler/swarm ships no matter how much better they are star wise against the 12 point ship. The TIE/FO is 15 points base, thus it at the same level of a Chardaan prototype. However despite the S-loop it doesn't have the maneuverability and is a little softer than the A-wing so in terms of value TIE/FO < A-wing.

But it's not a swarmer.

Nah it's a mean-ass Killah!

It really is. Though to run it the way I'd want to I'd have to spend 90 more dollars, yikes.

x6 Epsilon, Weapons Guidance, TIE MK II.

I'm looking at a slightly updated version of the Crack Shot Mob - 5 x Omega Squadron Pilots, Weapons Guidance, Crack Shot.

This ship is the perfect display of how wrong just looking at the "efficiency" of a ship is. MajorJugger also believe in the fact that with all the TlTs these don't have a spot in the meta. I find from my experience, he is dead wrong. Yeah his math is good, but that's only half the ship. The amount of time these ships stayed in the dead zone of the TLTs while still being able to shoot, was beautiful.

I have found that a lot of people mistske the FO as a swarm ship. The best comparison is against this and an a-wing. Both have similar dials although with the 2 sloops the fo i believe has an advantage.

Their base stat line are nearly identical to the awing. The dofference being the awing will boost while the fo barrel rolls. This means that they both have respositioning abilities.

They fit into an interesting place with the imperials competeing with the bomber and the new TAP. These are the only ships that compete in their points bracket. And all three offer something different... I have found that its dial makes it quite a nice dog fighter with the strengthof the greens making it solid against stress meta which has become a favoured thing recently.

The TAP is an interesting alternative yet their as i am sure it has been mentioned there are differences in pilot skills for points. The lack of actually evading as an action. Yet the dial of TAP is very solid the fact that it lacks the sloop means its nowhere near as slippery as the FO.

Just some more of my thoughts anyway.

Probably the same reason why the MA-3 Scyk is getting bagged on. 14 points does not make for good filler/swarm ships no matter how much better they are star wise against the 12 point ship. The TIE/FO is 15 points base, thus it at the same level of a Chardaan prototype. However despite the S-loop it doesn't have the maneuverability and is a little softer than the A-wing so in terms of value TIE/FO < A-wing.

But it's not a swarmer.

Nah it's a mean-ass Killah!

It really is. Though to run it the way I'd want to I'd have to spend 90 more dollars, yikes.

x6 Epsilon, Weapons Guidance, TIE MK II.

Drop dat cash son. I have eleven of the beautiful bastards... need one more then I will be happy.

Man, you assume I even have any cash. Right now I'm struggling to pay for a 45 dollar phone bill.

Man, you assume I even have any cash. Right now I'm struggling to pay for a 45 dollar phone bill.

Time to chill on dat $6 a day Taco Bell lunch you love so much...

Honestly watching people bang on about the fo here is like watching people bang on about age of sigmar on warhammer forums.

Sloop isn't that amazing if it were you'd see the starviper a whole lot more.

The ship does nothing other ships can't do better.

It was made to make the mouse happy it suffers greatly from being a lazy clone in the movie giving ffg little to work with.

Honestly watching people bang on about the fo here is like watching people bang on about age of sigmar on warhammer forums.

Sloop isn't that amazing if it were you'd see the starviper a whole lot more.

The ship does nothing other ships can't do better.

It was made to make the mouse happy it suffers greatly from being a lazy clone in the movie giving ffg little to work with.

Comparing TIE\fo to AoS is just...

even Scyk isn't as bad as AoS is

Starviper still has greens of an elephant.

and cost of an E-wing

>_>

o_o

Comparing TIE\fo to AoS is just...

Yeah, please don't.

The TIE/FO belongs in a well-crafted game, AoS is pure garbage.

No it's an apt analogy as the fo is a poor replacement for a classic ship as AoS is a poor replacement for fantasy.

Comparing TIE\fo to AoS is just...

Yeah, please don't.

The TIE/FO belongs in a well-crafted game, AoS is pure garbage.

It's a source of well-sculpted Space marine bits!

and NAKED FYREDORFS!

people don't agree with me so I'm going to resort to name calling

It's fine you dont like the ship. It's completely understandable, I've seen how most people fly, and jousting statistics actually come in handy. The generic FO doesn't wanna joust, they wanna dance along the asteroids or close enough to make the other player wanna engage, then when they have no other place to go but break off and reengage, the FO can just sloop and come back around.

Also the star viper is a great ship, works well, but people don't like how it flies, thus it dies. It also isn't a jouster, but against the current TLT lists, its been able to keep up thanks to its dial and AT. Do I fly it? Yes, but mostly guri because she is just a plain beast, even against aces.

people don't agree with me so I'm going to resort to name calling

It's fine you dont like the ship. It's completely understandable, I've seen how most people fly, and jousting statistics actually come in handy. The generic FO doesn't wanna joust, they wanna dance along the asteroids or close enough to make the other player wanna engage, then when they have no other place to go but break off and reengage, the FO can just sloop and come back around.

Also the star viper is a great ship, works well, but people don't like how it flies, thus it dies. It also isn't a jouster, but against the current TLT lists, its been able to keep up thanks to its dial and AT. Do I fly it? Yes, but mostly guri because she is just a plain beast, even against aces.

His comparison to the Starviper was a bit over the top, too. I mean that base ship is 10 points more, one extra hull and one extra die. By comparison, without even considering the dial, the FO is a bargain and the FO has the much better dial. The 3 Sloop creates more space (which can be both good and bad, and I prefer the tighter 2) and coming out of it there just aren't as many good options. The starviper sloop creates more distance and with slower greens can have a tougher time following.

The FO can Sloop and then come out of it the next turn facing almost the same direction pre-sloop with an action. The only other ship in the game so far that can do that (ignoring pilot abilities and upgrade cards) is the defender.

His comparison to the Starviper was a bit over the top, too. I mean that base ship is 10 points more, one extra hull and one extra die. By comparison, without even considering the dial, the FO is a bargain and the FO has the much better dial. The 3 Sloop creates more space (which can be both good and bad, and I prefer the tighter 2) and coming out of it there just aren't as many good options. The starviper sloop creates more distance and with slower greens can have a tougher time following.

The FO can Sloop and then come out of it the next turn facing almost the same direction pre-sloop with an action. The only other ship in the game so far that can do that (ignoring pilot abilities and upgrade cards) is the defender.

I would say comparing the FO to the Starviper is right on. The Starviper, TIE Fighter, FO, X-wing, and Kihraxz are all in the same class of ship. They are fighters. IMHO, the Starviper is the best fighter in the game. The TIE Fighter is efficient and cheap, and the FO is something in between the TIE Fighter and the Starviper. It doesn't hit has hard, but cost less than the Starviper. It costs a bit more than the TIE Fighter, but gains a better dial, the TL action, a tech slot, and a shield.

You are correct, fighters are not jousters. They are threats on the board that force your opponent to move where you want them to. Rather than reacting to the opponent, fighters force the opponent to react to them. This sets up shots and movements for the rest of your fleet.

His comparison to the Starviper was a bit over the top, too. I mean that base ship is 10 points more, one extra hull and one extra die. By comparison, without even considering the dial, the FO is a bargain and the FO has the much better dial. The 3 Sloop creates more space (which can be both good and bad, and I prefer the tighter 2) and coming out of it there just aren't as many good options. The starviper sloop creates more distance and with slower greens can have a tougher time following.

The FO can Sloop and then come out of it the next turn facing almost the same direction pre-sloop with an action. The only other ship in the game so far that can do that (ignoring pilot abilities and upgrade cards) is the defender.

I would say comparing the FO to the Starviper is right on. The Starviper, TIE Fighter, FO, X-wing, and Kihraxz are all in the same class of ship. They are fighters. IMHO, the Starviper is the best fighter in the game. The TIE Fighter is efficient and cheap, and the FO is something in between the TIE Fighter and the Starviper. It doesn't hit has hard, but cost less than the Starviper. It costs a bit more than the TIE Fighter, but gains a better dial, the TL action, a tech slot, and a shield.

You are correct, fighters are not jousters. They are threats on the board that force your opponent to move where you want them to. Rather than reacting to the opponent, fighters force the opponent to react to them. This sets up shots and movements for the rest of your fleet.

I've no problem comparing them (and did so myself). I was referring to his (Hobojesus) comparing of their efficiency as based solely off the fact that they both have the sloop:

Sloop isn't that amazing if it were you'd see the starviper a whole lot more.

His comparison to the Starviper was a bit over the top, too. I mean that base ship is 10 points more, one extra hull and one extra die. By comparison, without even considering the dial, the FO is a bargain and the FO has the much better dial. The 3 Sloop creates more space (which can be both good and bad, and I prefer the tighter 2) and coming out of it there just aren't as many good options. The starviper sloop creates more distance and with slower greens can have a tougher time following.

The FO can Sloop and then come out of it the next turn facing almost the same direction pre-sloop with an action. The only other ship in the game so far that can do that (ignoring pilot abilities and upgrade cards) is the defender.

I would say comparing the FO to the Starviper is right on. The Starviper, TIE Fighter, FO, X-wing, and Kihraxz are all in the same class of ship. They are fighters. IMHO, the Starviper is the best fighter in the game. The TIE Fighter is efficient and cheap, and the FO is something in between the TIE Fighter and the Starviper. It doesn't hit has hard, but cost less than the Starviper. It costs a bit more than the TIE Fighter, but gains a better dial, the TL action, a tech slot, and a shield.

You are correct, fighters are not jousters. They are threats on the board that force your opponent to move where you want them to. Rather than reacting to the opponent, fighters force the opponent to react to them. This sets up shots and movements for the rest of your fleet.

I've no problem comparing them (and did so myself). I was referring to his (Hobojesus) comparing of their efficiency as based solely off the fact that they both have the sloop.

Agreed. There is a big difference between that 2 and 3 sloop (and the greens available to clear stress as well). That 2 sloop is a tight maneuver that is easier to pull off than the 3 and often leads to an unopposed shot. The Starviper is a better stand alone fighter, but the TIEs (FO or Fighter) have great synergy and can really throw an opponent off their game.