Maybe it's just the squad I have been using (Vader at ps11 with VI,soontir and carnor jax, at PS 8,9)

With all the upgrades its 100 pts.

During games I don't see what it matters if both lists are 100 points other than a roll off and someone places the first asteroid. After that ...the initiative and who has it has never made a lick of difference.

What am I missing here? What is anyone gainning on me by having 99 points or less?

Every squad I've played against was PS 7 or under so I just haven't seen this mysterious " initiative" thing occur perhaps?

What do I care who sets down the first rock? It doesn't change what I'm going to do with my rock placement.

It's all a strange grey fog to me what the importance of initiative is.

Very important for PS 9+ Arc dodging.

I show up with the same list as you.

Do you want to be moving before I do, so I can boost barrel roll out of your arcs when I move later, or do you want to move after me... so you can do the same.

That's what a initiative bid is for.

Very important for PS 9+ Arc dodging.

It's this importance I can't figure out... I'm an arc dodger squad. ..but and I don't much concern myself with asteroids.not really hard to dance amongst them . whats the importance?

Initiative lets you decide who moves first in the case of a pilot skill tie. In your example Soontir wants to move second every time to boost ascend barrel roll to his best benefit.

I think I get it... So it really is more to do with when the PS levels are BOTH high...because so far...I'm always moving last regardless of initiative.does that sound close?

Because PS9 is the usual ace number, so you are more likely to use it AND come up against it.

So in those cases, you want to be moving and shooting your PS9 before their PS9. Meaning you want the initiative choice and to take it.

Same with any time you may come up against the same PS, like swarm vs swarm. You'd rather your PS1/2s go before theirs.

What I mean is...my opponents having this far always been at lower PS...that's why the initiative hasn't made a difference to me yet.

If you've got a weird mix (PS 5,6,8) it's not something to care about much, but with high pilot skills it is essential due to when you want to move.

Edit: Yeah, in that meta there's no reason to bid unless you really want choice of first rock.

Got it. Thanks fellas!

Also it dictates who places the asteroid/debris tokens first. So sometimes you may want that or want them to place first.

Because PS9 is the usual ace number, so you are more likely to use it AND come up against it.

So in those cases, you want to be moving and shooting your PS9 before their PS9. Meaning you want the initiative choice and to take it.

Same with any time you may come up against the same PS, like swarm vs swarm. You'd rather your PS1/2s go before theirs.

If you're both flying PS9 arc-dodgers you actually want to be moving and shooting after their PS9's otherwise you're giving up your arc-dodging ability.

If you both show up with squads with low PS ships you may find that you prefer having initiative because you are able to move some ships without needing to worry about your opponent blocking your maneuvers.

Haha, it matters and it doesn't matter.

Honestly, it can be mitigated with good early game and mid game play. Where it matters most is end game play where your PS9 Ace suddenly becomes incapable of finishing off the enemy PS9 Ace

PS9 Soontir vs PS9 Soontir, say, can be manageable when you still have support ships on the board. YOUR Soontir just becomes another tool to block the enemy Soontir (and a **** good one with Boost + Barrel Roll). However, you really can only win this WITH support ships shooting down the enemy PS9 ship early.

That's why I say "it matters and it doesn't matter". It largely influences how you want to play early and mid game, and becomes a death sentence when your early/mid game strategy doesn't pan out and you're left trying to out play said enemy ship when he moves after you.

Fly ps9 whisper against ps9 whisper once with and once without having initiative, you'll understand fast what it's for.

Yeah, when Aces match you don't want to go first. Shooting first doesn't mean crap when nothing is in front of you anymore.

During games I don't see what it matters if both lists are 100 points other than a roll off and someone places the first asteroid. After that ...the initiative and who has it has never made a lick of difference.

If you guys just joust, it doesn't, but hell, you shouldn't be.

Very important for PS 9+ Arc dodging.

It's this importance I can't figure out... I'm an arc dodger squad. ..but and I don't much concern myself with asteroids.not really hard to dance amongst them . whats the importance?

When you don't concern yourself with asteroids.

Justvaderthings

What do I care who sets down the first rock? It doesn't change what I'm going to do with my rock placement.

Initiative and its effects on obstacle placement are actually quite important.

Benefits of placing first...

- Guarantee that the largest/smallest obstacle is where you want it.

- Use the range 1 bubble of the first obstacle to prevent an obstacle being placed where you don't want it.

- Control the amount of available obstacle types remaining (mixed consist)

[for example, if your opponent brings 3 debris, and you bring three asteroids, you can prevent the opponent from placing 2 of his debris where he wants them]

Benefits of placing last...

- There are a limited number of general obstacle placement patterns. As each obstacle is placed, the remaining spaces available collapse (given the range 1 bubble around obstacles) - The final shape and pattern is Dependant upon the last obstacle placed. In a sense - the least control over the pattern is in the first placement - and the most in the final placement. So placing second allows you the most control over the developing asteroid pattern.

- Observing the first obstacle placement can reveal information about the opponents strategy - and allow you to place obstacles to counter (if the opponent wants to place the obstacles in the corners - by placing one near the corner, you can block a placement!) - if the opponent places in a corner - there's a good chance the opponent will play in multiple corners - If the opponent places in corners furthest from him, he probably wants the most open space somewhere on his side of the board. If the opponent places near the center - they probably want the exterior edges free, and the center clustered. (You of course gain more information on this after he places his second obstacle) It will also tell you how much the opponent cares about obstacles, whether they spend time playing with obstacle rotation, or toss it on the field - this gives hints as to how the opponent might use the obstacle placement during play.

In general, I believe placing last to be more advantageous than placing first - unless the opponent brings obstacles that I do not want to deal with - in which case I want to place first to control the position of the most annoying.

It matters alot if your going with aces, it matters not at all if your going for numbers with generics.

If I take an ace plus a miniswarm there's no point not going to 100.

Also it dictates who places the asteroid/debris tokens first. So sometimes you may want that or want them to place first.

I've found its often more beneficial to place the last rock.

Last night I played a match where I had Wedge at PS 9 and a Blue Squad B-Wing at PS 2 (and other stuff not pertaining to this topic) and my opponent had Han at PS 9 and two Rookies at PS 2 and we both had 100 pt lists.

My opponent did not have any ships that could boost or barrel roll so when I won initiative I choose to move first and shoot first. During one activation phase my B moved first into a position that let me barrel roll in front of a Rookie. I blocked his move which them caused Han to bump him so that neither of thise ships got an action.

In another round, Wedge scored a killing crit on Han but with the simultaneous fire rule, Han got to shoot back. The crit he drew, however, lowered his weapon value by 1 so his shot did no damage to Wedge.

Those are just a few examples of how initiative can have an impact on the game.

I generally prefer to give initiative to my opponent if PS doesn't matter, because being able to shape the final layout of the rocks is usually better than placing the first obstacle.

However, in a timed elimination event where both players have destroyed the same amount of ships, the player with initiative gets the win.

Last year, one of the Top 8 matches at a Store Championship came down to the fact that both players had destroyed 58 points in ships when time was called. But the player that won the roll-off had elected to give initiative to his opponent, and it cost him the win. So in those situations, you may be better off taking the initiative.

As a guy who flies (mostly) PS2-5 generics, I often find myself wondering the same thing...

Fly ps9 whisper against ps9 whisper once with and once without having initiative, you'll understand fast what it's for.

Whisper is a different kettle of fish to other high PS aces with the ability to reposition though. With Whisper v Whisper you always want to shoot first because when they return fire you've already re-cloaked and have your focus token!