So I'm starting a new game next week and was thinking of adding a new house rule

When Modding a Lightsaber Crystal a Jedi (Force Use)

1. Replaces Mechanics with Discipline

2. Gets a bonus Force Die if the crystal was obtained through a force quest (Vision, or crystal cave encounter)

3. Once Attuned the crystal only provides these stats while in the hands of the Attuning Jedi and revert to base stats when welded by someone else.

Would love to here you thoughts on these rule or any suggestions.

The rules as-is already make it easier for a PC to modify a lightsaber without adding extras, as the issue of it being extremely difficult for non-techy PCs to modify their lightsaber crystals was addressed during the Beta.

First off, the difficulty of the Mechanics check is reduced by 2 if you're working on your personal lightsaber. So the first modification of an attachment is only 1 purple instead of 3, meaning that PC with no ranks in Mechanics and Intellect 2 is still going to have a pretty good chance of making at least a couple of modifications.

Secondly, if the attachment is a personally-obtained lightsaber crystal, then the PC gets to add their Force dice to the Mechanics check to modify the crystal, with each LS pip rolled adding either a success or advantage to the results. Thus, it's entirely possible for a PC with Intellect 2, no ranks in Mechanics, and Force Rating 1 to be able to pull off two or three modifications to their lightsaber crystal. Which depending on the type of crystal may be all that you need; I had an Ataru Striker with a Dantari Crystal and I was able to get it fully modded with exactly that dice pool (2 ability, 1 Force die).

However, one possibly alternative is that as per page 166, you can use the associated combat skill to repair a weapon of that type instead of Mechanics. So perhaps instead of replacing Mechanics with Discipline, perhaps allow the PC to use their Lightsaber skill ranks to replace Mechanics, but still using Intellect as the governing characteristic. That one change will make it a lot easier for the saber-monkeys to fully modify their lightsaber crystals when combined with the two points I noted above.

Was not changing it because it was hard, but due to the fact that I don't feel that Mechanical aptitude has anything to do with Attuning a Crystal.

Nor does a PC's skill with a lightsaber. and Discipline is as close to a Jedi Skill as the game gets.

Also I forgot to bring up that in my game you may only get one successful Mod roll per Lightsaber crystal. (I.E. try to add all mods you would like on one roll)

again based on the fact its not just mechanically changing its stats but using your connection to the force to attune the crystal.

I kinda sorta don't see the point. The current rules works fine as is and these appear to be house rules for the sake of having the ability to house rule than any real or needed change to the game.

Mechanic's makes sense because what you're basically doing when you're moding the crystal is getting the technology of the lightsabre to work better with the qualities of the crystal. Which would be a mechanic's check as discipline would have no bearing on getting the mechanical parts of the lightsabre more in tune with the crystal. The bonus Force die seems pointless as ..... well ..... it's just giving the PC's a bonus to do something they were going to do anyway. Seriously whose going to turn down a crystal quest to get something better than the standard crystal? As for the last .... I could be recalling wrong but I was pretty sure you already got a bonus for using a lightsabre that was personally yours. I don't have the book handy though so I could be remembering wrong.

I kinda sorta don't see the point. The current rules works fine as is and these appear to be house rules for the sake of having the ability to house rule than any real or needed change to the game.

Mechanic's makes sense because what you're basically doing when you're moding the crystal is getting the technology of the lightsabre to work better with the qualities of the crystal. Which would be a mechanic's check as discipline would have no bearing on getting the mechanical parts of the lightsabre more in tune with the crystal. The bonus Force die seems pointless as ..... well ..... it's just giving the PC's a bonus to do something they were going to do anyway. Seriously whose going to turn down a crystal quest to get something better than the standard crystal? As for the last .... I could be recalling wrong but I was pretty sure you already got a bonus for using a lightsabre that was personally yours. I don't have the book handy though so I could be remembering wrong.

The hilt and the crystal are to different things.

These changes don't effect the hilt in any way.

By the rules once modded a crystal can be moved to any hilt and still have all its mods so you are not changing any of the mechanical components to improve the crystal.

So the modding of the crystal is a forced based mod not a mechanical one.

I kinda sorta don't see the point. The current rules works fine as is and these appear to be house rules for the sake of having the ability to house rule than any real or needed change to the game.

Mechanic's makes sense because what you're basically doing when you're moding the crystal is getting the technology of the lightsabre to work better with the qualities of the crystal. Which would be a mechanic's check as discipline would have no bearing on getting the mechanical parts of the lightsabre more in tune with the crystal. The bonus Force die seems pointless as ..... well ..... it's just giving the PC's a bonus to do something they were going to do anyway. Seriously whose going to turn down a crystal quest to get something better than the standard crystal? As for the last .... I could be recalling wrong but I was pretty sure you already got a bonus for using a lightsabre that was personally yours. I don't have the book handy though so I could be remembering wrong.

The hilt and the crystal are to different things.

These changes don't effect the hilt in any way.

By the rules once modded a crystal can be moved to any hilt and still have all its mods so you are not changing any of the mechanical components to improve the crystal.

So the modding of the crystal is a forced based mod not a mechanical one.

Or you can look at it as, once you've learned how to modify a lightsabre to get a certain quality out it you automatically know how to do it in future lightsabres with the same crystal. Thus no need for additional rolls to mod the crystal again.

Like I said, these feel more like rules for the sake of making up new rules.

Well that is if you agree with the RAW.

I don't.

If what you say is true then the rules for modding the lightsaber would included the mods to the crystal. (they don't its a separate roll)

and you can mod a crystal without a hilt.

the rules also don't specifically preclude Non-force users from modding a crystal so you get what I had in my last game, where the Mechanic of the group gathered a bunch of crystals from the cave where my Jedi character got his crystal and started making them to sell.

by the the book its not against the rules so he could make 10,000 credits a crystal/lightsaber to sell on the outer rim.

Just to point out I was not the GM in that game.

Yeah ..... see ..... I wouldn't need this house rule to fix that problem. I'd fix it by having Vader show up. If you're selling lightsabre crystals for 10k you're just asking to be killed by Vader.

Problem solved. No need for house rules.

I'm with the rest here on this being a rule in search of a problem but be that as it may I don't in theory have a problem with using Discipline for the Modding of the Crystal only. If you choose to go this way I would not transfer the Difficulty check reduction given to Mechanics.

I'm going to have to go with Kael here. If someone was doing this they would have have a very short life expectancy indeed. Sounds like your GM has Munchkin tendencies.

The other ..... non Vader solution is to simply have the cave only have enough crystals for the Jedi characters. Canon wise we already know that a lightsabre crystal tends to call to it's owner. Not just anyone can find them. And once you find yours you are not likely to find others until you need a new one. So in this example of the group mechanic gathering up a bunch of crystals to sell ...... that is clearly a GM error. I'd of never allowed it to happen by virtue of just sticking to how we see it done on TCW and Rebels.

Now if the group mechanic wants to mod the ever loving shiznaz out of another players crystal then sure go for it. I'd allow that just as I would allow the group mechanic to pretty much mod out any other party members' weapon.

But also .... Vader. Vader solves a lot of this.

the point of this thread was to get advice on what tweaks I need to make to these house rule.

But as always if its not RAW its wrong and I'm wrong.

Thank you for pointing out the pointlessness of ever bring any ideas on this forum.

the point of this thread was to get advice on what tweaks I need to make to these house rule.

But as always if its not RAW its wrong and I'm wrong.

Thank you for pointing out the pointlessness of ever bring any ideas on this forum.

We don't disagree with you because it's not RAW. If that were true then most of us wouldn't have posted in other home brew threads. Like I know myself and Donaven have personally given feedback on say ..... homebrewed creatures, which certainly weren't RAW. Or the jai kari thread ..... which is fairly long but people were going back and forth about how to homebrew a two weapon fight form. So the idea that if it isn't RAW then you're wrong is ..... well wrong.

But whats the point of asking for our thoughts if all you want us to do is tell you what you want to hear?

The point would be things like

1.I would raise the difficulty by one

2. don't add the extra Force point

3. use a different skill then Discipline. maybe Lore

4.etc.

not the RAW are great don't change them.

plus your examples are home-brew not house rules

Home-brew: things not covered in that rules added by the PC/GM.

House rules: Items covered in the rule but modified by the GM to fit his game.

It sounds like the real problem is that you've allowed one PC whose not even Force-sensitive to stockpile and collect a bunch of viable lightsaber crystals, which per the lore should be incredibly rare . Rare as in you'd have better odds of getting struck by lightning and winning the lottery on the same week than being able to harvest multiple kyber crystals that are viable for use in a lightsaber.

Personally, if the PC isn't Force-sensitive, I wouldn't allow them to be able to modify a lightsaber crystal in the first place, given they lack the connection to the Force that is generally required to properly attune the crystal so that it can be properly used in a lightsaber. I also sure as heck wouldn't let the PCs be able to routinely mine said crystals, since they're meant to be an incredibly rare resource, with not every kyber crystal being of suitable purity to function as a lightsaber crystal. Over in Legends, Tenal Ka learned a very painful lesson about what happens when you use sub-standard crystals in a lightsaber.

Like Kael said, the original post is rule in search of a problem that only exists because the GM dug themselves a hole. The better solution would be to admit that you made a mistake, and then rescind the ability to further mine or modify kyber crystals as a steady source of income. Then there's the little fact that Empire tends to keep an eye out for anyone that routinely traffics in kyber crystals, and anyone known to do so on a routine basis can expect the hammer of Imperial "justice" to drop swiftly and without remorse on their heads.

So yes tenchi2a, we are telling you that your proposal doesn't work and is unnecessary, because all you're really doing is trying to sidestep the core problem, which was allowing your party to get away with something they really shouldn't have. it's something that all GMs have done, and sometimes as a GM you need to own up to the fact you gave away more than you should, and if need be use GM fiat to remove a boon that is now causing your game to derail instead of trying to force a broad change to the rules that fail to address the real problem.

It sounds like the real problem is that you've allowed one PC whose not even Force-sensitive to stockpile and collect a bunch of viable lightsaber crystals, which per the lore should be incredibly rare . Rare as in you'd have better odds of getting struck by lightning and winning the lottery on the same week than being able to harvest multiple kyber crystals that are viable for use in a lightsaber.

Personally, if the PC isn't Force-sensitive, I wouldn't allow them to be able to modify a lightsaber crystal in the first place, given they lack the connection to the Force that is generally required to properly attune the crystal so that it can be properly used in a lightsaber . I also sure as heck wouldn't let the PCs be able to routinely mine said crystals, since they're meant to be an incredibly rare resource, with not every kyber crystal being of suitable purity to function as a lightsaber crystal. Over in Legends, Tenal Ka learned a very painful lesson about what happens when you use sub-standard crystals in a lightsaber.

Like Kael said, the original post is rule in search of a problem that only exists because the GM dug themselves a hole. The better solution would be to admit that you made a mistake, and then rescind the ability to further mine or modify kyber crystals as a steady source of income. Then there's the little fact that Empire tends to keep an eye out for anyone that routinely traffics in kyber crystals, and anyone known to do so on a routine basis can expect the hammer of Imperial "justice" to drop swiftly and without remorse on their heads.

As stated i was not the GM of that game. that was the game that most of us walked on.

Two the time period of the game was pre-episode one.

you stated in your response the reason why I'm changing the skill used ( they lack the connection to the Force that is generally required to properly attune the crystal so that it can be properly used in a lightsaber)

just to clarify I have no problem with the hilt construction rule as you are creating a mechanical device.

I just don't see mechanical aptitude have anything to do with attuning a crystal to the force.

The point would be things like

1.I would raise the difficulty by one

2. don't add the extra Force point

3. use a different skill then Discipline. maybe Lore

4.etc.

not the RAW are great don't change them.

plus your examples are home-brew not house rules

Home-brew: things not covered in that rules added by the PC/GM.

House rules: Items covered in the rule but modified by the GM to fit his game.

Sure, Lore or Discipline whatever makes you happy man.

Two the time period of the game was pre-episode one.

you stated in your response the reason why I'm changing the skill used ( they lack the connection to the Force that is generally required to properly attune the crystal so that it can be properly used in a lightsaber)

just to clarify I have no problem with the hilt construction rule as you are creating a mechanical device.

I just don't see mechanical aptitude have anything to do with attuning a crystal to the force.

It isn't just Mechanical aptitude but that is part of the necessary skill set to create a Lightsabre. In the RAW, maybe mistakenly or maybe I missed it being spelled out, or maybe because all the Careers within F&D are Force sensitive it's assumed that any PC building a Lightsabre is Force Sensitive so they felt no need to clarify it as a prerequisite. In any case if you read up on it again and also read the expanded RAW with the GM Screen you'll see that they made allowances for the PC's Force Rating around construction. So it's still a Mechanics check but it also takes into account the PC's Force ability by reducing the difficulty and/or adding a Force Die to the required rolls.

This is why we don't think your House Rule is necessary because it's already integrated into the RAW.

I don't know where it is, but I could swear I've heard of Knowledge:Lore being used instead of mechanics. I think that would be a better skill, as it still represents learning and study.

I don't know where it is, but I could swear I've heard of Knowledge:Lore being used instead of mechanics. I think that would be a better skill, as it still represents learning and study.

GM screen.

Well that is if you agree with the RAW.

I don't.

If what you say is true then the rules for modding the lightsaber would included the mods to the crystal. (they don't its a separate roll)

and you can mod a crystal without a hilt.

the rules also don't specifically preclude Non-force users from modding a crystal so you get what I had in my last game, where the Mechanic of the group gathered a bunch of crystals from the cave where my Jedi character got his crystal and started making them to sell.

by the the book its not against the rules so he could make 10,000 credits a crystal/lightsaber to sell on the outer rim.

Just to point out I was not the GM in that game.

And using Discipline fixes this how? Last I checked force users were not the only ones allowed to have the discipline skill. This problem was created by the GM. A GM who hands out khyber crystals to random players is the problem.

Whatever skill you use one prerequisite should be Force sensitivity. Using Discipline will usually make such modifications reletively easier needing overhaul to the whole process. If you want such work then fine, but it may be more work than it is worth. Discipline is one skill that most Force users have in abundance next to Lightsaber. The whole reason during the F&D beta they came up with the difficulty reduction and using Force dice was to emulate the individual working on his own lightsaber. If a GM is going to let any monkey use mechanics then that is on that GM as he is reducing the specialness of the crystals.

So I'm starting a new game next week and was thinking of adding a new house rule

When Modding a Lightsaber Crystal a Jedi (Force Use)

1. Replaces Mechanics with Discipline

2. Gets a bonus Force Die if the crystal was obtained through a force quest (Vision, or crystal cave encounter)

3. Once Attuned the crystal only provides these stats while in the hands of the Attuning Jedi and revert to base stats when welded by someone else.

Would love to here you thoughts on these rule or any suggestions.

1. I don't think it would be absolutely terrible to game balance if you could use Discipline or Knowledge (Lore) in place of mechanics when modding a crystal. I do believe that using Mechanics was a minor balancing factor chosen to make obtaining every mod on a crystal not super easy, but again, I don't think this is a table-flipper game ending house rule.

2. Meh. The vision quest / force journey / whatever gave the character XP. The XP could have been spent to get +1 Force Rating. It's already easy enough to mod crystals the first few times due to lower starting difficulty and adding force rating. If you do this in addition to #1, that is where I see things starting to get a little unbalanced IMHO.

3. This is probably okay, especially if your lightsaber wielders got their own crystals "fresh" and no one gets the short straw of a hand-me-down crystal that they can never attune and modify. Unless of course you have some kind of re-attuning process to go along with this. The glaring issue with this house rule is that I could see it as way to use weapons against the players that they can't have.

GM: You defeated the nemesis that had a lightsaber!

Player: Cool, I pick up his lightsaber, and try to identify the crystal in it.

GM: It's a Krayt Dragon Pearl, fully modded!

Player: I take it out and stick it in my lightsaber.

GM: It loses all the mods! Furthermore, it's attuned to the guy you killed, so you can't attune it, therefore it will only ever have base stats.

Player: . . .

It's like sticking the Genelock attachment with the blow up when anyone else grabs it mod on every single powerful weapon you attack the party with. Now, if your party gets the crystal(s) they want and care not for any other crystal, then by all means, this rule is fine.

So I'm starting a new game next week and was thinking of adding a new house rule

When Modding a Lightsaber Crystal a Jedi (Force Use)

1. Replaces Mechanics with Discipline

2. Gets a bonus Force Die if the crystal was obtained through a force quest (Vision, or crystal cave encounter)

3. Once Attuned the crystal only provides these stats while in the hands of the Attuning Jedi and revert to base stats when welded by someone else.

Would love to here you thoughts on these rule or any suggestions.

1. I don't think it would be absolutely terrible to game balance if you could use Discipline or Knowledge (Lore) in place of mechanics when modding a crystal. I do believe that using Mechanics was a minor balancing factor chosen to make obtaining every mod on a crystal not super easy, but again, I don't think this is a table-flipper game ending house rule.

2. Meh. The vision quest / force journey / whatever gave the character XP. The XP could have been spent to get +1 Force Rating. It's already easy enough to mod crystals the first few times due to lower starting difficulty and adding force rating. If you do this in addition to #1, that is where I see things starting to get a little unbalanced IMHO.

3. This is probably okay, especially if your lightsaber wielders got their own crystals "fresh" and no one gets the short straw of a hand-me-down crystal that they can never attune and modify. Unless of course you have some kind of re-attuning process to go along with this. The glaring issue with this house rule is that I could see it as way to use weapons against the players that they can't have.

GM: You defeated the nemesis that had a lightsaber!

Player: Cool, I pick up his lightsaber, and try to identify the crystal in it.

GM: It's a Krayt Dragon Pearl, fully modded!

Player: I take it out and stick it in my lightsaber.

GM: It loses all the mods! Furthermore, it's attuned to the guy you killed, so you can't attune it, therefore it will only ever have base stats.

Player: . . .

It's like sticking the Genelock attachment with the blow up when anyone else grabs it mod on every single powerful weapon you attack the party with. Now, if your party gets the crystal(s) they want and care not for any other crystal, then by all means, this rule is fine.

1. The use of Discipline would not allow the reduced check PPP to P so I dont see it being more powerful or less then using Mechanic, but we will see

2. Its not a bonus Force rating its just a bonus force point for the mod roll only.

3. I see your point, but it would cut down ton the D&D kill to upgrade mindset.

So I'm starting a new game next week and was thinking of adding a new house rule

When Modding a Lightsaber Crystal a Jedi (Force Use)

1. Replaces Mechanics with Discipline

2. Gets a bonus Force Die if the crystal was obtained through a force quest (Vision, or crystal cave encounter)

3. Once Attuned the crystal only provides these stats while in the hands of the Attuning Jedi and revert to base stats when welded by someone else.

Would love to here you thoughts on these rule or any suggestions.

1. I don't think it would be absolutely terrible to game balance if you could use Discipline or Knowledge (Lore) in place of mechanics when modding a crystal. I do believe that using Mechanics was a minor balancing factor chosen to make obtaining every mod on a crystal not super easy, but again, I don't think this is a table-flipper game ending house rule.

2. Meh. The vision quest / force journey / whatever gave the character XP. The XP could have been spent to get +1 Force Rating. It's already easy enough to mod crystals the first few times due to lower starting difficulty and adding force rating. If you do this in addition to #1, that is where I see things starting to get a little unbalanced IMHO.

3. This is probably okay, especially if your lightsaber wielders got their own crystals "fresh" and no one gets the short straw of a hand-me-down crystal that they can never attune and modify. Unless of course you have some kind of re-attuning process to go along with this. The glaring issue with this house rule is that I could see it as way to use weapons against the players that they can't have.

GM: You defeated the nemesis that had a lightsaber!

Player: Cool, I pick up his lightsaber, and try to identify the crystal in it.

GM: It's a Krayt Dragon Pearl, fully modded!

Player: I take it out and stick it in my lightsaber.

GM: It loses all the mods! Furthermore, it's attuned to the guy you killed, so you can't attune it, therefore it will only ever have base stats.

Player: . . .

It's like sticking the Genelock attachment with the blow up when anyone else grabs it mod on every single powerful weapon you attack the party with. Now, if your party gets the crystal(s) they want and care not for any other crystal, then by all means, this rule is fine.

1. The use of Discipline would not allow the reduced check PPP to P so I dont see it being more powerful or less then using Mechanic, but we will see

2. Its not a bonus Force rating its just a bonus force point for the mod roll only.

3. I see your point, but it would cut down ton the D&D kill to upgrade mindset.

Which makes me think you are deviating from RAW just to deviate from RAW. Nothing about your fix fixes the problem from your previous game. It is just a change for changes sake.

As I have said to me its a skill flavor thing.

Mechanical does not feel like using the force to attune a lightsaber.

It feel like its a skill most Jedi don't have so we are using it as a balance thing.

Wait it makes it to hard for Jedi to make a good lightsaber lets give them a -2p bonus.

whats the point just use Discipline a skill already linked to the force through force powers.

if mechanical does not pull you out of the game then fine use it, but for me and my group the suspension of disbelief drops on this one.

To me its like saying use your piloting skill to uses a force power as a balance because its something most force users don't have.