I cross posted this from Force and Destiny as this board is more active.

1. The Discipline check is the attack roll.

2. Adversary effects it imo, but there is no opposed combat checks.

3. No additional damage per success, you add damage via activating the strength upgrades multiple times.

4. Yes.

5. Yes.

2. Adversary effects it imo, but there is no opposed combat checks.

The Adversary talent states, "Upgrade the difficulty of any combat check targeting the character once per rank of Adversary."

The definition of a Combat Check is (page 210 F&D), "...when [a character] uses a combat skill to attack a target".

So your response makes sense.

3. No additional damage per success, you add damage via activating the strength upgrades multiple times.

This is probably where I have the most difficulty, as the Move power says virtually the same thing, and additional successes add to the damage when Move is used to throw things at people.

This is why I would have thought it was an opposed check.

Just zappy zap. When you actually have it maxed out and like FR 4 or 5, it's pretty ugly, but it is for dread Sith lords of course...

I mean you can't even use the thing until you have FR3 anyway.

Yah, and honestly you can't use it really well till probably 4 at least, and you want it maxed out.

Although any sissy pants who uses a range upgrade is having their Sith card punched by me....you have to be up in their face cackling maniacally as you burn them down with your dark power....!

LOL. I like the idea of a Dark Sider using Force Lightning in the same way the Ark of the Covenant does

3. No additional damage per success, you add damage via activating the strength upgrades multiple times.

I'm not quite sure about that, as Hooly said, the Move power doesn't explicitly states to add dmg per success but I personally would still play it that way. What Unleash does say though is this: "The Force user makes a Unleash power check and rolls a ranged attack as part of the pool."

Now in the combat chapter on page 210, it says under 3. pool results and deal damage: "When making a combat check, [...], each uncanceled success adds +1 damage to a successful attack."

Since Unleash is rolled as a ranged attack, I would rule it as counting as a combat check dealing additional damage per success.

3. No additional damage per success, you add damage via activating the strength upgrades multiple times.

I'm not quite sure about that, as Hooly said, the Move power doesn't explicitly states to add dmg per success but I personally would still play it that way. What Unleash does say though is this: "The Force user makes a Unleash power check and rolls a ranged attack as part of the pool."

Now in the combat chapter on page 210, it says under 3. pool results and deal damage: "When making a combat check, [...], each uncanceled success adds +1 damage to a successful attack."

Since Unleash is rolled as a ranged attack, I would rule it as counting as a combat check dealing additional damage per success.

I agree, the power says it's a ranged attack, so normal attack rules should apply, each success adds one damage.

Worth submitting a dev question. It makes it OP to allow that imo.

Worth submitting a dev question. It makes it OP to allow that imo.

Perhaps, but this is also a top-tier Force power that otherwise does crap-tastic damage that many targets will have little trouble negating with their soak value.

Heck, a PC with Brawn 3 and padded armor would be completely immune to Unleash attacks made by any Force user with a Willpower of 5 or less, and with the right builds it's possible to have a soak value that lets the target largely shrug off Unleash attacks by a Force user that's got Willpower 6 and all three Strength Upgrades.

Plus, I think it was addressed by a dev that using Move to attack does add the uncancelled successes since it's handled as a ranged attack in all respects save how the base difficulty is determined. Unleash has similar verbiage, so it'd make sense that uncancelled successes add to damage, just as uncancelled successes when using Protection add to the how much damage is negated.

Like I said good dev question. Answer wouldn't matter at my table, wouldn't allow it.

Worth submitting a dev question. It makes it OP to allow that imo.

Is it though? If anything, Donovan ilustrates that without those successes this power is everything but OP.

I don't think we are reading the same power. With the strength upgrades this thing is already over the top, I see no reason to let someone who only invests 80 xp have a damage 12 flamethrower from their fingers.

I don't think we are reading the same power. With the strength upgrades this thing is already over the top, I see no reason to let someone who only invests 80 xp have a damage 12 flamethrower from their fingers.

It has a force rating 3 requirement. That's more than 80 xp.

Edit: Also, can you elaborate why 12 damage specifically?

I'm just throwing out a number based on the min/maxer who is going to have a Willpower 6 Discipline 5, because someone isn't grabbing this power to role play. 5Y1G vs. 2P is going to generate a pretty consistent number of successes, added to that base Willpower.

The xp expenditure is for the costs of the power.

65 xp invested gets you to Burn 2.

A FR3 PC will generate nearly 4 pips pretty consistently, they only need 3 to activate the power and Burn.

Their uncancelled Advantages can be used the whittle away the target's Strain while they are at it.

So they roll a few successes every check, inflict in the neighborhood of 12 points of damage with the Burn 2 effect, which means the next 2 rounds they're essentially doing double damage, as they will hit the target again (if the target is around), and then on top of that as they advance they can still buy strength upgrades.

The power doesn't need to add successes to damage, it is plenty overwhelming without them.

Let me just say also, I was answering OPs question, I am not interested in creating another piss fest on these forums.

People can do whatever they like at their tables.

This power doesn't specifically say you can add successes on the roll and it does not specifically say it uses all the range attack rules like Move specifically does.

When something isn't specifically singled out as doable in the questions I've submitted, that typically means it isn't.

It's really all academic for me personally, as I have no intention of running a dark side Force user campaign.

This power looked at in its entirety does not need to have successes added to the damage imo. It pushes the lethality of it over the top for too little xp invested imo.

Good gaming to all.

I'm just throwing out a number based on the min/maxer who is going to have a Willpower 6 Discipline 5, because someone isn't grabbing this power to role play. 5Y1G vs. 2P is going to generate a pretty consistent number of successes, added to that base Willpower.

The xp expenditure is for the costs of the power.

65 xp invested gets you to Burn 2.

A FR3 PC will generate nearly 4 pips pretty consistently, they only need 3 to activate the power and Burn.

Their uncancelled Advantages can be used the whittle away the target's Strain while they are at it.

So they roll a few successes every check, inflict in the neighborhood of 12 points of damage with the Burn 2 effect, which means the next 2 rounds they're essentially doing double damage, as they will hit the target again (if the target is around), and then on top of that as they advance they can still buy strength upgrades.

The power doesn't need to add successes to damage, it is plenty overwhelming without them.

You need the minimum of 100 xp to get FR3( probably more) . You then need around 50 or more to get the Willpower and discipline to your numbers ( probably more ), you also need XP for cross spec. THEN: you need to spend 2 pips to activate base power ( 6 damage based on a insane stat as per your example ) and THEN you need to make the disciple check based on a MAXED out skill as per your example :-) , then spend 1 pip for burn to get DOT 6. Then you apply soak. A newly created PC can survive that no worries never mind your basic rivals.

Also with the same XP I could probably create a toon that would dish out 20 damage several times due to auto fire.

This power is not OP with those successes, the character in your example however is.

( edited because I got burn wrong )

Out of curiosity, I went and created a character with 6 Wilpower, 5 Discipline and, FR3, and the Unleashed Power (with all of the Strength Upgrades. Total XP: 485. They can't do anything else though. Here is is:

Race: Arcona

Career: Niman Disciple / Sage

Nice one Hooly, it's even more XP than I thought ;-)

Out of curiosity, I went and created a character with 6 Wilpower, 5 Discipline and, FR3, and the Unleashed Power (with all of the Strength Upgrades. Total XP: 485. They can't do anything else though. Here is is:

Race: Arcona

Career: Niman Disciple / Sage

Quick question, why did you split your specializations? If the goal was to build this as cheap as possible, a Consular with Sage can reach FR 3 without Niman. Now obviously Niman makes a Willpower character stronger, but you don't need it if your intent was to simply build an Unleash user cheaply.

Out of curiosity, I went and created a character with 6 Wilpower, 5 Discipline and, FR3, and the Unleashed Power (with all of the Strength Upgrades. Total XP: 485. They can't do anything else though. Here is is:

Race: Arcona

Career: Niman Disciple / Sage

Quick question, why did you split your specializations? If the goal was to build this as cheap as possible, a Consular with Sage can reach FR 3 without Niman. Now obviously Niman makes a Willpower character stronger, but you don't need it if your intent was to simply build an Unleash user cheaply.

I used 485 awarded xp with a Kel Dor and stayed in Consular and was able to get to FR4, Willpower 6, Discipline 5, all strength upgrades in Unleash, one range, one magnitude, and the control ones that add Ensnare and Burn. Also was able to grab Niman technique, so he has no real use besides Unleash, but he does roll 6Gs on a lightsaber attack which is no joke.

Not sure if GM Hooly's build's xp includes starting xp or it was awarded plus starting.

Out of curiosity, I went and created a character with 6 Wilpower, 5 Discipline and, FR3, and the Unleashed Power (with all of the Strength Upgrades. Total XP: 485. They can't do anything else though. Here is is:

Race: Arcona

Career: Niman Disciple / Sage

Quick question, why did you split your specializations? If the goal was to build this as cheap as possible, a Consular with Sage can reach FR 3 without Niman. Now obviously Niman makes a Willpower character stronger, but you don't need it if your intent was to simply build an Unleash user cheaply.

The goal was to get the following:

1) Willpower 6

2) Discipline 5

3) Protect/Unleashed with maximum Damage and the ability to add the Burn Quality.

4) FR 3

Just looking that you could do that with 400XP after Character Generation, but honestly, the character would be a one trick pony, and its talents aren't even thematic. But it can be done thanks to Sage having to 2 x FR talents in the tree, and Healer is just straight down to Dedication. For an extra 50XP, you can jump across the bottom row and add an additional FR to get to FR4. But again, what a boring character!

The point that I'm trying to make here is that this ability is for the heavy hitters and is an end game power, specifically designed for the bad guys to wield the lightening, and the good guys to heal every last mofo in the room!

Niman is also perfect for offsetting the physical weakness, if for some reason force lightning doesn't work, the glowstick will do just fine!

That being said, I have but recently become eliable for the Protect/unleash, though I doubt I'll take it because my characters largely developed congnative/manipulative abilities.