Found another post on this topic but it was over a year old. I'll post a like to that thread here.

Is this a possibility? The game is growing way fast and although I can't speak to the validity to the statements I know I have seen in threads before that X-wing is outselling 40k. Maybe a guy couldn't make a living on the game but I think something like this could be really positive for the game in terms of growth, longevity, and exposure. I know some people would be concerned about the kind of people that something like this would attract or about the culture it may build to which the obvious response it just don't play players you don't want to play outside of a competitive environment. What are your thoughts?

EDIT: If you are just going to be unpleasant and post stuff like "no" or "yeah" or "that is stupid" just don't bother posting. I'd like to have a real discussion and you can save it for someone else who cares because I don't

Nothing I have seen indicates that FFG is interested in adding money to the game. While, yes, they are interested in growing the game and adding more events, they do not want to add money to it.

And really, I don't think we want it to, either. Netrunner I have seen is already infested a bit too much with the "pro game" approach on other forums.

Nothing I have seen indicates that FFG is interested in adding money to the game. While, yes, they are interested in growing the game and adding more events, they do not want to add money to it.

And really, I don't think we want it to, either. Netrunner I have seen is already infested a bit too much with the "pro game" approach on other forums.

(Not being confrontational just trying to promote discussion) When you say "infested a bit too much with the 'pro game' approach" What exactly do you mean?

GW seems to be in a state of rapid sale policy mutation.

FB died and was re-born as a cadavaer "Age of space marine bits Sigmar" for 100% non-sportsmanship players

with rules so sh*tty that no sane powerplayer will even touch it.

While 40k makes profit mostly from "OH MY GOD, A NO BRAINER PAY TO WIN!" players

selling new boxes by making eextremely one-sided rules.

Want to own everyone? Buy 4 helldrakes!

Want to own the helldrakes? Buy our 50$\box Broadsides! BUY 12 for instagib!!11

Sick of Tau? Buy our new Centurion box! Or maybe two!

Don't worry, the screamers of tzeentch don't give a **** about them all! Buy more Heralds as well! 2++ with re-rollable 1s!

Now you can take a ton of free Rhinos and Droppods! 40$ each!

Want to make Eldar a powerhouse? Buy yourself 10+ boxes of Windriders!

Want to skullf### people with Tau? We just have these Rapetides, you can now field 9!

so yeah, GW seems to be facing some problems.

But X-wing still hasn't reached the peak levels of GW sales though

hopefully it won't see the GW approach any time soon

Horrible idea. As soon as money becomes a prize "Fly Casual" will be tossed out the window.

Just look at the WAAC players we already have playing for acrylic tokens and alt art cards!

IMHO X-Wing is not suitable for Tournaments with prize money. It's very easy to manipulate. Just a little "accidental" push on one of your ships an you have a shot on an opponent that was barely out of your fire angle, or you miss an asteroid by a millimeter. Those situations come up regularly. And as long as there's not much to gain other than a bit of fame, you will only have that occasional douchebag who just can't help himself. As soon as there's more to gain, there's much more temptation and cheating will increase. I don't want to live in that world.

Just keep flying casual.

Horrible idea. As soon as money becomes a prize "Fly Casual" will be tossed out the window.

Just look at the WAAC players we already have playing for acrylic tokens and alt art cards!

Please support your claim.

Magic has cash prizes and several casual players that simply don't attend those events. Golf has a pro tour and we can play casual tournaments and just casual games whenever. WAAC players are always going to be in everything. There is no way around them. How many casual gamers enjoy tournaments because of prize support? I a would not suggest a Pro tour in lieu of local tournaments but rather in addition to them. Perhaps even not allowing pro tour players the opportunity to play in store championships? Maybe they are allowed at a regional and up level to prevent a WAAC environment at lower levels of competition. Just spit balling ideas more than anything. I also want to make sure it is understood I am not simply writing you off but that deeper explanation would be appreciated.

IMHO X-Wing is not suitable for Tournaments with prize money. It's very easy to manipulate. Just a little "accidental" push on one of your ships an you have a shot on an opponent that was barely out of your fire angle, or you miss an asteroid by a millimeter. Those situations come up regularly. And as long as there's not much to gain other than a bit of fame, you will only have that occasional douchebag who just can't help himself. As soon as there's more to gain, there's much more temptation and cheating will increase. I don't want to live in that world.

Just keep flying casual.

I have thought of this as well and at the end of the day it is a hard point to counter. "With it being so easy to cheat what would stop competitive players from doing it?" And simply put I think a higher level of scrutiny would be needed for a higher level of competition. Judges that have a deep understanding of the game, a strict policy on cheating and misrepresentation with a system (ie just reporting incidents) to whatever company would be the organizer of the tour, be it FFG or another 3rd party.

The x-wing rules set is not tightly enough written to support serious dollar value prizes. It would need a complete rewrite of the rules and massive card errata to plug assorted loopholes, inconsistencies, vague areas. Reference Magic's 50+ page legalese tournament rules document.

As cybu also mentioned, there is a lot of "fuzzy ness" in game play as well. Between placing templates, judging range, bumping ships and obstacles, there is just too much vagueness for a cash prize tournament to not lead to arguments and ill will.

WAAC players who jump on semi-forced missed opportunities are very rare right now. A pro tour would put such play at the top regularly.

It's not that we don't want Waac play at locals. We don't want it at world's.

The x-wing rules set is not tightly enough written to support serious dollar value prizes. It would need a complete rewrite of the rules and massive card errata to plug assorted loopholes, inconsistencies, vague areas. Reference Magic's 50+ page legalese tournament rules document.

As cybu also mentioned, there is a lot of "fuzzy ness" in game play as well. Between placing templates, judging range, bumping ships and obstacles, there is just too much impression for a cash prize tournament to not lead to arguments and ill will.

Many of these issues could be taken care of with a "Tour Series" rule book or something of the like. Have the governing body rule on inconsistencies, closet cases, and for lack of a better term the "fudg-a-bility" of some aspects. College and Pro football have varying rules, it is not unreasonable to say that rules from FFG would be the core of the rules and "Tour" ruling would be on a greater level of depth or detail.

WAAC players who jump on semi-forced missed opportunities are very rare right now. A pro tour would put such play at the top regularly.

It's not that we don't want Waac play at locals. We don't want it at world's.

You seem to hold a different point of view. You say that they wouldn't be as bad locally but at higher tiers it is ideal not to have that kind of player, could you elaborate? This is counter-intuitive (not wrong) and I am interested to hear your thoughts at greater length.

I think prize money should be capped at triple the entry fee, if cash was ever a prize, to keep it FUN.

I'd like more promo and rare prize support from FFG to make it more interesting. But Hell, some shops only give out prizes from the Tournament Kit... with 12 players dropping $10 to play, those kits dont cost THAT much. My local shop gives giftcards, kit prizes AND Pro repainted expansions- I guess that's good enough for me.

Team Covenant is already doing something like a pro tour with the Team Covenant Aces League on Vassal. I know its computer based but it is still an easier a cheaper way fr some of the best players in the world to get together and again prove why they are some of X-Wings "Ace" players

Nothing I have seen indicates that FFG is interested in adding money to the game. While, yes, they are interested in growing the game and adding more events, they do not want to add money to it.

And really, I don't think we want it to, either. Netrunner I have seen is already infested a bit too much with the "pro game" approach on other forums.

And FFG's response to that is to print out the World's winning decks and sell them as a cheap add-ons. FFG makes friendly games and that (thankfully) will never change.

Magic is not a good example to support your claim. We have some of those here that also play X-wing. It's not a good thing in some cases. This won't happen as ffg has stated they have no interest in adding cash prizes to their games.

This won't happen as ffg has stated they have no interest in adding cash prizes to their games.

Support your post, be productive, or don't post. "FFG doesn't want to add cash prizes" in in the topic several times. Additionally I am by no means disputing your claim but no one at this juncture has cited this lack of interest. Either by video or statement I would be interested to see the actual source material for these statements and understand FFG's reasoning as to gain a fuller understanding of their position.

Magic is not a good example to support your claim. We have some of those here that also play X-wing. It's not a good thing in some cases.

Yes sometimes people are jerks. Are you saying everyone who plays magic and X-wing are bad people and their presence is a detriment to the game? No, you probably are not. Then why bring it up? Some people who drive Hondas also play X-wing are jerks but it doesn't mean that people who drive Hondas are a detriment to the game.

Why isn't Magic a good example? It is a very successful example of a game with a pro series and also still fosters a casual environment as well. I think it is a prime example of the success that, when coupled with the culture of X-wing as it exists presently, could lead to: larger turn outs, more content, longevity, and more games being played.

This won't happen as ffg has stated they have no interest in adding cash prizes to their games.

Support your post, be productive, or don't post.

Why isn't Magic a good example? It is a very successful example of a game with a pro series and also still fosters a casual environment as well. I think it is a prime example of the success that, when coupled with the culture of X-wing as it exists presently, could lead to: larger turn outs, more content, longevity, and more games being played.

Sorry but you are not the internet police. I can post as I want to or not want to.

It has been said no I don't have the exact article link handy unfortunately but as you said this topic has come up before so I am sure it is not that hard to find in one of those.

Magic appeals overall to a different type of player at the competitive who would not necessarily fit as well in to the environment of the X-Wing community.

Sorry but you are not the internet police. I can post as I want to or not want to.

It has been said no I don't have the exact article link handy unfortunately but as you said this topic has come up before so I am sure it is not that hard to find in one of those.

Magic appeals overall to a different type of player at the competitive who would not necessarily fit as well in to the environment of the X-Wing community.

You're right I am not the internet police. I suppose I should have said "Please don't post if you aren't going to be constructive." It seems likely (from your quoted text) that it would more than likely have been in vain as you have posted yet again in a manner that offers nothing to the discussion other than inciting a worthless post to tell you your post adds nothing. You seem to have a gripe with Magic players. While this is probably not unwarranted you haven't really expanded on why it is a bad comparison or what makes the players different. Not to steal your line or anything but "Sorry you aren't the X-wing police." There is no reason that we shouldn't welcome as many people to the game that have the desire to learn and play, regardless of what other games they play (I apologize for the melodramatics in this statement but I think it illustrates the point accurately)

EDIT: Missed keystroke

I never said not to welcome as many players as possible. Most of the people here who play a lot of them also have or do play Magic. My "beef" is at a certain level IE pro tour cash type level the players are not the type that we or FFG want in the X-Wing community. WAAC players are the ultimate NPE.

Anyway since I refuse to confirm your own personal bias I will allow this thread to come to it's eventual conclusion and simply ignore your posts. Have an enjoyable weekend. Fly casual.

WAAC players who jump on semi-forced missed opportunities are very rare right now. A pro tour would put such play at the top regularly.

It's not that we don't want Waac play at locals. We don't want it at world's.

You seem to hold a different point of view. You say that they wouldn't be as bad locally but at higher tiers it is ideal not to have that kind of player, could you elaborate? This is counter-intuitive (not wrong) and I am interested to hear your thoughts at greater length.

FFG niether has the policy nor temperament to support a "Pro Tour".

For instance, only one of FFGs games (Netrunner) has floor rules. No other games event rules or FAQ would stand up to that level of competitive play. Most recently you have the whole large ship "typo" in the recent update, that type of stuff wouldn't stand up to the expectations of a Pro Tour. FFG does not have a Judges program, at all. FFG allocates Store Championships and Regionals out to venues with absolutely no vetting process for the TOs and any other people helping run the event. There is no guarantee that the TO be at all familiar with the game, you just have to hope. FFG also does next to nothing to support the TOs, as I stated above no floor rules to refer to, and they've only recently developed event software. And that as of last Regional season did not work and featured an unannounced stealth change to the SOS tiebreakers. I mean think of that, an event run under different rules depending on whether you can get thier software to work.

They certainly haven't displayed the stomach for it. Look at the most recent Suspension Policy introduction. That was the result of actions that took place at Gencon and came to light in September. FFG was so ill-prepared for the idea that someone would go and cheat at thier games (which would certainly happen with more prizing on the line, though it is niave to say it doesn't occur regardless of money or not) that it took them 4-5 months to do anything about it. FFGs personal officiating within thier own events has frequently come up as lacking, specifically in how they deal with players acting outside the rules.

FFG is behind in thier ability to run thier amateur level tournament scene, let alone a professional circuit

Additionally, there is the simple fact that miniatures games that occur on a free form table are too inexact for professional level play. There is too much wiggle room in measurements, in the templates, and far too much ability to cheat by just bumping a model.

For all those reasons I would say the idea of an X-wing Pro Tour is an impossibility.

Found another post on this topic but it was over a year old. I'll post a like to that thread here.

Is this a possibility? The game is growing way fast and although I can't speak to the validity to the statements I know I have seen in threads before that X-wing is outselling 40k. Maybe a guy couldn't make a living on the game but I think something like this could be really positive for the game in terms of growth, longevity, and exposure. I know some people would be concerned about the kind of people that something like this would attract or about the culture it may build to which the obvious response it just don't play players you don't want to play outside of a competitive environment. What are your thoughts?

EDIT: If you are just going to be unpleasant and post stuff like "no" or "yeah" or "that is stupid" just don't bother posting. I'd like to have a real discussion and you can save it for someone else who cares because I don't

Good God no.

Hell no

Terrible idea

As was already pointed out for multiple reasons. The biggest is could you imagine what people would be disputing.

"you bumped your fel with the range ruler on purpose"

"your poe shouldn't be angled that way. You moved him to far"

"you landed on that asteroid"

"No I didnt"

"yes you did, you just didn't put fel in the guides properly"

Mtg imo is a terrible game and I blame that on part of the people who play

(that and seems to be a requirement to have poor hygiene)

Money turns people into greedy eyed maniacs.

There have been instances already of people cheating and doing shady things in small tournaments just to win what? An alt card?

So how much worse would it get if there was 50k on the line or a couple of million?

And ya it would bring out nothing but ****** bags.

Let's not bring up this topic again.

Because it's simply a dumb and terrible idea.

Found another post on this topic but it was over a year old. I'll post a like to that thread here.

Is this a possibility? The game is growing way fast and although I can't speak to the validity to the statements I know I have seen in threads before that X-wing is outselling 40k. Maybe a guy couldn't make a living on the game but I think something like this could be really positive for the game in terms of growth, longevity, and exposure. I know some people would be concerned about the kind of people that something like this would attract or about the culture it may build to which the obvious response it just don't play players you don't want to play outside of a competitive environment. What are your thoughts?

EDIT: If you are just going to be unpleasant and post stuff like "no" or "yeah" or "that is stupid" just don't bother posting. I'd like to have a real discussion and you can save it for someone else who cares because I don't

No, that is stupid.

The thing you have to realize, FFG's games are filled with former WOTC, Wizkids, and Games Workshop players. And many do not want to go back to that. On the local level, sure, Magic may be casual enough. But in the broader scale, it isn't. Money does attract those only interested in the money. See VS and Dreamscape for past examples. I don't think it is wrong for those to not want that to happen to this game.

As for Netrunner, the major issue I have is observing one of the major forums. I have gathered enough info to not really be thrilled with some of the attitudes that seem to be emerging in Netrunner.