I am curious if this is legal or not...

Ship has 12 with 11 damage on it

Attack, all misses, activate Vader, receive 2 damage and force opponent to suffer a critical, then activate gunner, attack again, dealing 1 damage, then can I activate the effect from Vader again?

Does the damage from Vader that pushes the damage cards over the hull value on the first Vader action then prohibit you from using the Vader action again on the second attack from gunner?

When does the damage from the first Vader become "official" - can you Vader after the hull value has been exceeded with the second gunner kicking in?

I think you can because isn't damage resolved after all attacks are completed by the ship, I was thinking the text was written and the errata was written like it is to allow this but to resolve simultaneous fire due to initiative.

Thanks in advance.

FAQ page 11.

Darth Vader

A ship equipped with Darth Vader can use this ability if it has at least 1 hull remaining. If a ship equipped with Darth Vader can attack twice in one round (such as a ship equipped with Gunner or Cluster Missiles), it can use Darth Vader after the first attack and after the second attack. If Darth Vader destroys the ship to which he is equipped, it can still perform its second attack. If Vader is used twice, it must be in this order: Attack, Vader, Attack, Vader.

FAQ is found on this page, near the bottom in the Support section: https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/products/x-wing/

A ship equipped with Darth Vader can use this ability if it has at least 1 hull remaining.

...

If Darth Vader destroys the ship to which he is equipped, it can still perform its second attack.

I love that.

"A ship equipped with Darth Vader can use this ability if it has at least 1 hull remaining. It can also use this ability if it does not have at least 1 hull remaining."

Thanks, FAQ!

Is there any point to the first line of the FAQ? Any case where a ship with < 1 hull remaining would get an attack other than if Vader destroys it between attacks?

A ship equipped with Darth Vader can use this ability if it has at least 1 hull remaining.

...

If Darth Vader destroys the ship to which he is equipped, it can still perform its second attack.

I love that.

"A ship equipped with Darth Vader can use this ability if it has at least 1 hull remaining. It can also use this ability if it does not have at least 1 hull remaining."

Thanks, FAQ!

Is there any point to the first line of the FAQ? Any case where a ship with < 1 hull remaining would get an attack other than if Vader destroys it between attacks?

It's saying that a ship with Vader and Gunner can miss, Vader, and then Gunner, even if the Vadering destroys it. It won't get to Vader a second time off the Gunner's "from hell's heart I stab at thee" shot, though.

It's saying that a ship with Vader and Gunner can miss, Vader, and then Gunner, even if the Vadering destroys it. It won't get to Vader a second time off the Gunner's "from hell's heart I stab at thee" shot, though.

I can see that now, thanks. Just the way it's ordered makes the second paragraph seem like an exception to the first

I love that."A ship equipped with Darth Vader can use this ability if it has at least 1 hull remaining. It can also use this ability if it does not have at least 1 hull remaining."

That is quite explicitly NOT what it is saying. It says

You have 1 hull remaining

You attack and miss

You trigger vader, killing yourself

The FAQ says you still get to make the gunner attack

You now do not have 1 hull remaining, so you CANNOT trigger vader a second time

Remove your ship, because you killed it on the first attack.

Now, the question arises, if you know this is the way it will go, why would you use vader after the first attack at all? You already know you missed and gunner will trigger. Why not wait and trigger vader after the gunner attack, then you can see what the results of that attack are before deciding to kill yourself. After all, the shuttles second attack might all crit into a couple of major explosions that trigger extra direct hits and kill the ship before you can vader it.

Now, the question arises, if you know this is the way it will go, why would you use vader after the first attack at all? You already know you missed and gunner will trigger. Why not wait and trigger vader after the gunner attack, then you can see what the results of that attack are before deciding to kill yourself. After all, the shuttles second attack might all crit into a couple of major explosions that trigger extra direct hits and kill the ship before you can vader it.

You don't expect to hit with the Gunner attack either, and you're hoping for an agility-reducing crit? You know that Vadering will kill your target, and you want to use Gunner on another ship entirely?

I love that."A ship equipped with Darth Vader can use this ability if it has at least 1 hull remaining. It can also use this ability if it does not have at least 1 hull remaining."

That is quite explicitly NOT what it is saying. It says

...

You now do not have 1 hull remaining, so you CANNOT trigger vader a second time

In fairness, based on the recent Autothrusters ruling, just because the FAQ says "if X, then Y", we do not necessarily get "if not X, not Y"

Of the three rules

• You can use Darth Vader if you have at least one hull left
• If you can attack twice, you can use Darth Vader after each attack
• If Darth Vader destroys the ship he is on, you can still attack again

saying "you can use Darth Vader a second time if the first time destroys your ship" does not contradict any of them, and saying "you can't..." contradicts the second.

If Vader caused a ship to truly be "destroyed" after the first attack, the Gunner would not trigger at all.

Because the FAQ instructs that the second attack still triggers, then all modifiers, crew, etc.. on the ship would trigger - including Vader.

This is the way I read it unless FFG has some other clarification.

If Vader caused a ship to truly be "destroyed" after the first attack, the Gunner would not trigger at all.

Because the FAQ instructs that the second attack still triggers, then all modifiers, crew, etc.. on the ship would trigger - including Vader.

This is the way I read it unless FFG has some other clarification.

If Vader caused a ship to truly be "destroyed" after the first attack, the Gunner would not trigger at all.Because the FAQ instructs that the second attack still triggers, then all modifiers, crew, etc.. on the ship would trigger - including Vader.This is the way I read it unless FFG has some other clarification.

"Further clarification" is exactly what was being quoted above.

I can see reading this two different ways.

If Vader caused a ship to truly be "destroyed" after the first attack, the Gunner would not trigger at all.Because the FAQ instructs that the second attack still triggers, then all modifiers, crew, etc.. on the ship would trigger - including Vader.This is the way I read it unless FFG has some other clarification.

"Further clarification" is exactly what was being quoted above.

Is this as clarifed by FFG or Fogottenlore?

I can see reading this two different ways.

FAQ page 11.

Darth Vader

A ship equipped with Darth Vader can use this ability if it has at least 1 hull remaining. If a ship equipped with Darth Vader can attack twice in one round (such as a ship equipped with Gunner or Cluster Missiles), it can use Darth Vader after the first attack and after the second attack. If Darth Vader destroys the ship to which he is equipped, it can still perform its second attack. If Vader is used twice, it must be in this order: Attack, Vader, Attack, Vader.

The Attack, Vader, Attack, Vader part doesn't let Vader get around the first sentence: "A ship equipped with Darth Vader can use this ability if it has at least 1 hull remaining." If you Vader off the first attack and it destroys your ship, you can trigger Gunner and get its attack, but you can't Vader again off that attack because you don't have 1 hull remaining (with the standard caveats about how that's poorly phrased since in this game you don't deplete hull, you accumulate damage cards...).

To me the funny thing about saying you can only use Vader if a ship has 1 hull left is that a ship's hull rating NEVER goes down; ships just acquire damage and once that exceeds the hull value the ship is destroyed but the hull never actually changes.

If Vader caused a ship to truly be "destroyed" after the first attack, the Gunner would not trigger at all.Because the FAQ instructs that the second attack still triggers, then all modifiers, crew, etc.. on the ship would trigger - including Vader.This is the way I read it unless FFG has some other clarification.

"Further clarification" is exactly what was being quoted above.

Is this as clarifed by FFG or Fogottenlore?I can see reading this two different ways.

Sorry, I was actually talking about this:

FAQ page 11. Darth VaderA ship equipped with Darth Vader can use this ability if it has at least 1 hull remaining. If a ship equipped with Darth Vader can attack twice in one round (such as a ship equipped with Gunner or Cluster Missiles), it can use Darth Vader after the first attack and after the second attack. If Darth Vader destroys the ship to which he is equipped, it can still perform its second attack. If Vader is used twice, it must be in this order: Attack, Vader, Attack, Vader.

The Attack, Vader, Attack, Vader part doesn't let Vader get around the first sentence: "A ship equipped with Darth Vader can use this ability if it has at least 1 hull remaining." If you Vader off the first attack and it destroys your ship, you can trigger Gunner and get its attack, but you can't Vader again off that attack because you don't have 1 hull remaining (with the standard caveats about how that's poorly phrased since in this game you don't deplete hull, you accumulate damage cards...).

I know the FFG Crew has limited resources, but sometimes their wording is poorly chosen to express intent of their rulings.

Gunner and Vader are both triggering (after the first attack misses), but you're choosing the order in which you resolve them.

To me the funny thing about saying you can only use Vader if a ship has 1 hull left is that a ship's hull rating NEVER goes down; ships just acquire damage and once that exceeds the hull value the ship is destroyed but the hull never actually changes.

Quiet, you. Just because a handful of us know the rules as they're written...

To me the funny thing about saying you can only use Vader if a ship has 1 hull left is that a ship's hull rating NEVER goes down; ships just acquire damage and once that exceeds the hull value the ship is destroyed but the hull never actually changes.

Quiet, you. Just because a handful of us know the rules as they're written...

I will not be silent! People need to be told the truth and not be deceived by the overlords who want to obscure the truth.

Gotta run now, there are some funny looking lights in the sky moving this way...

To me the funny thing about saying you can only use Vader if a ship has 1 hull left is that a ship's hull rating NEVER goes down; ships just acquire damage and once that exceeds the hull value the ship is destroyed but the hull never actually changes.

Quiet, you. Just because a handful of us know the rules as they're written...

I will not be silent! People need to be told the truth and not be deceived by the overlords who want to obscure the truth.

Gotta run now, there are some funny looking lights in the sky moving this way...

Thanks for all the replies. I guess my thinking was that because a ship never has its hull value reduced due to damage being assigned was the reason I was thinking you could use Vader twice even if the first one kills him. Obviously only beneficial if the two criticals from Vader were needed to destroy the ship it another ship somehow. To be honest it is still not clear to me if you can do it or not based on the >1 hull wording, all ships have >1 hull based on the rules of assigning damage but I get the point of view from others which would make more logical sense but even so

Thanks for all the replies. I guess my thinking was that because a ship never has its hull value reduced due to damage being assigned was the reason I was thinking you could use Vader twice even if the first one kills him. Obviously only beneficial if the two criticals from Vader were needed to destroy the ship it another ship somehow. To be honest it is still not clear to me if you can do it or not based on the >1 hull wording, all ships have >1 hull based on the rules of assigning damage but I get the point of view from others which would make more logical sense but even so

If like you're saying you recognize that the >1 hull wording is completely meaningless if read strictly then it seems somewhat clear of what they intended. They intent seems to be that if a ship has less damage cards assigned to it then its hull value it can use Vader.

If you need even more clarity then has already been provided you should send a rules question to FFG specifically mentioning the wording.

I guess my thinking was that because a ship never has its hull value reduced due to damage being assigned

Yes, the FAQ is VERY sloppily worded, but the intention should be absolutely crystal clear.

I guess my thinking was that because a ship never has its hull value reduced due to damage being assigned

Yes, the FAQ is VERY sloppily worded, but the intention should be absolutely crystal clear.

Lol - the simple fact it is sloppily worded means it isn't crystal clear though but I get your point