Still boring, time consuming dicefests that limit my contribution to the game to 1. Align arcs and 2. Shoot

Every game against the fat han type crap is a diluted xwing and an inferior experience than facing off against anything else, from doughnut dash or TLTs to swarms

Not sure what anyone sees in those things outside the stunning models and the name. Literally just the name, of one of the most iconic characters

...In your opinion...

He's not alone in not liking PWT.

Still boring, time consuming dicefests that limit my contribution to the game to 1. Align arcs and 2. Shoot

Every game against the fat han type crap is a diluted xwing and an inferior experience than facing off against anything else, from doughnut dash or TLTs to swarms

Not sure what anyone sees in those things outside the stunning models and the name. Literally just the name, of one of the most iconic characters

...In your opinion...

He's not alone in not liking PWT.

Sure, several people in my playgroup dont like PWTs aswell. Or TLT for that matter.

Nothing wrong with that, my post was just a friendly reminder to differenciate between opinions and facts.

Anyway, in the case of like minded individuals not wanting to experience this crap again:

Regen Poe is essentially immortal versus fat han

R2d2 corran may never take damage, but he's far more expensive and vulernable to bumps (and astronomically sh*tty dice)

Ps 10 r2d2/r5p9 poe with thrusters is an easy solution to making games versus the fat ass as short and least irritating experience possible.

R3-a2 Ys also make a mockery of him and endure the dice fest is as brief as possible by shutting off his time-wasting boost

And, of course, they're the two most popular rebel ships. There are many variations of heaver's list, swapping the TLT and Z for an ace such as Wedge or Keyan (personally loving bb-8 Asty)

Empire sadly is more vulnerable to loss by lucky, unavoidable dice but I've had the pleasure of mercilessly crushing a fat ass with a tie miniswarm. New juke (with omega leader, but juke hits c3po regardless as he's BEFORE modifyers) and crackshot tech + good ole concentrated fire goes right through him

The current environment thankfully makes it very difficult for han to resume his position, and Ive seen him literally twice since wave 7. It's been a blissful experience

Anyway, in the case of like minded individuals not wanting to experience this crap again:

Regen Poe is essentially immortal versus fat han

R2d2 corran may never take damage, but he's far more expensive and vulernable to bumps (and astronomically sh*tty dice)

Ps 10 r2d2/r5p9 poe with thrusters is an easy solution to making games versus the fat ass as short and least irritating experience possible.

R3-a2 Ys also make a mockery of him and endure the dice fest is as brief as possible by shutting off his time-wasting boost

And, of course, they're the two most popular rebel ships. There are many variations of heaver's list, swapping the TLT and Z for an ace such as Wedge or Keyan (personally loving bb-8 Asty)

Empire sadly is more vulnerable to loss by lucky, unavoidable dice but I've had the pleasure of mercilessly crushing a fat ass with a tie miniswarm. New juke (with omega leader, but juke hits c3po regardless as he's BEFORE modifyers) and crackshot tech + good ole concentrated fire goes right through him

The current environment thankfully makes it very difficult for han to resume his position, and Ive seen him literally twice since wave 7. It's been a blissful experience

Good for you.

Maybe you can finally move on now. Whining about Han got old about 6months ago.

The counter whining remains in vogue, I see

Once he's gone along with any attempt to bring him back into an otherwise great game, so too will the complaints

The counter whining remains in vogue, I see

Once he's gone along with any attempt to bring him back into an otherwise great game, so too will the complaints

Unfortunately for you PWT have been a core part of the game design since wave 2. They're not going anywhere and FFG sure doesn't have any interest in making them unplayable just so you can enjoy your version of the game.

Considering the state of the wave, ffg's done a spectacular job neutering fat pwts

The two most popular rebel small ships are, imo, VERY solid counters, for example

Looking to the future, the potential of viable ordnance would spell further doom for the fatass. Ordnance likes nothing better than single, high value and large targets

The jump master, itself ironically a PWT, in particular makes for a TERRIFYING torpedo boat. I don't think han would enjoy much seeing a pair of them staring him down

With them, the release of another AT ship, and a 0 agility mostly gunner proof ship with an incredible 4 dice primary, the future looks bleak for fat pwts

By extension, it looks bright for the game at large

I play fat han just to troll fickle.

It's my fault for biting, really

It's my fault for biting, really

Han and Miranda, too. Twin turrets. Maximum troll power.

But I love Miranda

...Han dies first

Han and Poe are a good combo. Both of them can give you a favorable endgame so the opponent has to be careful who to chase and make sure they bring that pilot down in a timely fashion which is quite tricky in both those cases.

But I love Miranda

...Han dies first

Miranda does not exist. Just like Jacen Solo and Kyle Katan.

This guy is actually arguing that Han Solo has no place in X-Wing?

I'm kinda stunned.

I'm at a loss as to what FFG is supposed by this person to do. Does any character deserve justification if Han does not?

You're conflating game rules with a character from a series of movies

Han as currently implemented with the laziest turret rules I've experienced since 40k (except facing mattered in 40k due to differing armor values, so yeah Xwing did something worse than 40k) does not deserve to be in the game. He offers a dumed down, dice dependent experience by removing his opponent's ability to counterplay him outside of just chucking more dice

Actually had a game v kenkirk recently (made interesting because the pilot was awesome...and brought proton bombs) that really highlighted how stupid the mechanic is. I flew poe and asty, 64 points total, and I simply would have lost without thrusters. No amount of flying is going to find that mythical 361st degree, and two t70s simply cannot outdice a 16 health monster without that bandaid fix.

Thankfully, FFG has done a great job correcting their mistake in the design of the PWT by forcing it out of the competitive scene with very necessary scoring/match making changes and counters starting from thrusters

Considering Han, the character, could have been introduced into the game in literally infinite potential ways, hopefully FFG will one day tweek the PWT rule so that he won't be such a pain in the ass to play against

It can be as complex as a turret marker or as simple as making the "out of arc" portion of thrusters a CORE rule versus pwts. Rebalance costs as necessary etc

Actually had a game v kenkirk recently (made interesting because the pilot was awesome...and brought proton bombs) that really highlighted how stupid the mechanic is. I flew poe and asty, 64 points total, and I simply would have lost without thrusters. No amount of flying is going to find that mythical 361st degree, and two t70s simply cannot outdice a 16 health monster without that bandaid fix.

You could have win even without Autothrusters, especially with the 2 pilots you just named. If you would not have taken Autothrusters, you could have take Integrated Astromech instead for one more health each. We are now looking at 16 health total Vs 14 health. The difference is not that bad. Especially if we consider that the 14 health group shoot 6 dice per turn (Vs 2 for Kenkirk) and Kenkirk shoot 3 (Vs 2 for his target). That's even it even more. Now, we should also take into consideration that probably at least one of those 2 X-Wing (if not both) have a regen droid, and I'm starting to see an advantage for the 2 X. As far as line of sight, both X-Wing has boost (to realign if need be) and a better PS than Kenkirk, so they should not have a problem to keep Kenkirk in line, and if he try to escape, just take that moment to reorganise yourself, maybe regen a shield or two and prepare for the next run. That match up would actually be up to the players more than the build, as it should be in this game. And with the new half point rules, I favor the 2 small ship to win the match.

But since Autothrusters is in the game, and one of the help provided against turrets, I don't see why you dismiss it to prove that turrets is ''out of control'' and should be out of this game. It is part of this game, Autothrusters I mean, use it if you think you'll need it. I'm betting that in the match up you listed (Kenkirk Vs Poe and Ello), it was the Kenkirk player that felt powerless, because with 3 dice, shooting at a 2 dice ship with Autothrusters that can regen each turn, you can feel powerless pretty fast.

There is a lot of counter to them. If you hate them so much, build your team to deal with them. If you don't do it, sure, you'll probably lose, just like you will probably lose if you don't prepare yourself against high PS arc dodgers, or TLT spam, or a swarm, or soon to be Ordnance carrier ships. A big Turret is just another archetype in this game with plenty of way to deal with. They have a 360 line of sight sure, but they're easy to gun down if the player is not careful. Feel free to continue to snob them, but they have their place in this game and don't need no tweeking.

I'm sorry, how is Han Solo supposed to have entered X-Wing if not in the Millennium Falcon?

I think someone is just mad that they got beat a few times with a list they didn't like.

I'm sorry, how is Han Solo supposed to have entered X-Wing if not in the Millennium Falcon?

I think someone is just mad that they got beat a few times with a list they didn't like.

You are missing the point. The Falcon would have been a much 'better' ship if it hadn't introduced the PWT mechanic and instead just had a turret upgrade. The YT-2400 shows us how the Falcon could have worked better, without introducing the stupid whenever you have a shot, unless I was really bad and parked on a rock, I have a shot. Range 1-3 3 red dice turret weapons were not good for the game.

Or to shoot out of arc youd need to spend an action or take a specific crew card so you trade crew abilities to shoot out of arc.

None of the pilots can shoot the turret anything but forward so you could have had it so their ability only worked in arc.

I'm sure they never envisioned the problems it would cause but it's still a bad design as proved by the fact they had to add Autothrusters so interceptors had a chance.

No I understand completely. The PWT mechanic is not favoured by certain gamers. What I don't understand is the hypocrisy surrounding the hate. People will slam PWTs and players who like them, while completely ignoring the unsavoury aspects of their own favoured gameplay style.

Would it matter at all if Han had to pay points for a turret? People would have played him that way anyways.

So Autothrusters counter PWT? They also counter pretty much anything firing at you at range three, so... did that fix affect only PWTs? What about that ICT Y-Wing? AT neuters him too.

Interceptors have a hard time? As well they should. Anyone with 3 attack dice and both repositioning tools ought to have to work for their kills. It's not enough that Soontir can one shot entire lists down the drain? Now people want AT for free? That's absolutely ludicrous.

Did FFG drop the ball with PWTs? No, of course not. Paid game designers seldom do, and when mistakes are made, they are fixed. The ship had it's time in the sun, it's seen a recession, and thanks to the stewardship of the designers it will now probably see a return.

No I understand completely. The PWT mechanic is not favoured by certain gamers. What I don't understand is the hypocrisy surrounding the hate. People will slam PWTs and players who like them, while completely ignoring the unsavoury aspects of their own favoured gameplay style.

Oddly, people have different opinions. What one finds distasteful, another might not. It isn't hypocrisy, just different opinions.

I can respect other peoples opinions, all I'm saying is that people often ignore the downsides of things that they like. Especially in light of their own arguments. Sure PWTs are tough. But so is an AT equipped Interceptor.

I can respect other peoples opinions, all I'm saying is that people often ignore the downsides of things that they like. Especially in light of their own arguments. Sure PWTs are tough. But so is an AT equipped Interceptor.

Its not about them being tough to beat, they usually aren't, it is about how it is not elegant and breaks the rules in a way that is just frustrating. He literaly can't be outmanouvered, that is a fact.

What you are ignoring is that it comes from what they view the game should be. Not against what is strong or not.

I can respect other peoples opinions, all I'm saying is that people often ignore the downsides of things that they like. Especially in light of their own arguments. Sure PWTs are tough. But so is an AT equipped Interceptor.

Here's the thing autothrusters are the answer to PWT they only exist because turrets made interceptors extinct.