Eh I don't see the ghost being that dangerous sure four attack can hurt but I can down it in short order it's got no creepio or isard, it's got minimal greens making destressing moves very predictable.

That's the point of Kanan though. White maneuvers remove stress too

Sorry fanboys, Han has about as much of chance returning to the meta as Harrison Ford does returning in the next movie.

Eh I don't see the ghost being that dangerous sure four attack can hurt but I can down it in short order it's got no creepio or isard, it's got minimal greens making destressing moves very predictable.

The best defense is kicking the other guy in the teeth. What do you think 4 red dice do?

But it has to catch you in arc first and only a fool would joust it.

Everyone bashes on the spray but it's got the same arc as the ghost, those two flanks are there to be abused and if you keep it stressed you can stay in that sweet spot forever.

well, Spray somehow has no 4 attack primary and no slot for autoblaster for "oh, you dodged me? See that baby?" fun

and no sensor slot

maybe if spray DID have 4 attacks, at least in the primary (not auxillary) arc, it would be the big-ass damage dealer and fat jouster king.

but it's not. hence it's being bashed

Back to topic: Fat Han will be back once we get out of 4TLT season. Its not over yet. 2TLT. Ok. But 4TLT. han is taking like 6 damage a turn off 8 attacks. He's gone within 2.5 turns.

Han Jake might be really good.

Shouldn't we call her HAWT Hera instead? (Heavy Armor With Turret)... FAT just isn't nice to a Lady...

I think Fat Han is in the right place now. As someone said above you can actually feel good about playing him because he´s tricky to play these days. There are also some good new ships that you can throw your opponent off with the last 36-39 points. Having to deal with a regenerating Poe after Han leaves the table poses a different challenge than facing Jake Farrell or a couple of Z95s. Miranda is another interesting option for some double slippery turret action.

Sorry fanboys, Han has about as much of chance returning to the meta as Harrison Ford does returning in the next movie. :lol: :D

Any Decimator builds that you think are viable nowadays?

I think Han Jake Han Poe is better than Deci Soontir currently.

I doubt we will see Han return anytime soon. The fact that a 35 point ship (fel) can easily solo a fully loaded up Han is a bit of a problem. Half points, tlt's, and autos make it a poor choice to bring along the falcon.

Chirpy vessery worked before it'll work even better now, just put predator on chirpy as he's not spending the TL then have vessery clear shields so you get chirpys crit through.

Any Decimator builds that you think are viable nowadays?

I think Han Jake Han Poe is better than Deci Soontir currently.

People seem to forget that RAC/Whisper made the cut at Worlds, so I'd say it's competitive right now and it's better than the other options above from what I've seen.

Any Decimator builds that you think are viable nowadays?

I think Han Jake Han Poe is better than Deci Soontir currently.

People seem to forget that RAC/Whisper made the cut at Worlds, so I'd say it's competitive right now and it's better than the other options above from what I've seen.

Rac is generally better at killing things what with options like Vader, gunner, captive, and some other nasty ones. Plus whisper and fel are way better closers than the rebel closers one the turret goes bye bye...

Any Decimator builds that you think are viable nowadays?

I think Han Jake Han Poe is better than Deci Soontir currently.

People seem to forget that RAC/Whisper made the cut at Worlds, so I'd say it's competitive right now and it's better than the other options above from what I've seen.

I'd care to respectfully disagree. All my inference is theory though.

Firstly, Whisper got replaced by soontir after whisper was nerfed and autothrusters was released.

2. Whisper only barely survived multiple TLT if she has TWO of some sort of extra defensive upgrade: Sensor Jammer, FCS (save focus for defenses), Recon Spec. PLUS Palpatine.

3. Decimators just seriously take the damage too fast compared to how fast they can kill Ys.

AlexW, on 23 Jan 2016 - 05:07 AM, said:

Blail Blerg, on 23 Jan 2016 - 03:56 AM, said:

Any Decimator builds that you think are viable nowadays?

I think Han Jake Han Poe is better than Deci Soontir currently.

People seem to forget that RAC/Whisper made the cut at Worlds, so I'd say it's competitive right now and it's better than the other options above from what I've seen.

RAC/Whisper is better that's a fact.

Rebels always get the girl that's a fact.

Just saying.

AlexW, on 23 Jan 2016 - 05:07 AM, said:

Blail Blerg, on 23 Jan 2016 - 03:56 AM, said:

Any Decimator builds that you think are viable nowadays?

I think Han Jake Han Poe is better than Deci Soontir currently.

People seem to forget that RAC/Whisper made the cut at Worlds, so I'd say it's competitive right now and it's better than the other options above from what I've seen.

RAC/Whisper is better that's a fact.

Rebels always get the girl that's a fact.

Just saying.

First you guys might want to agree on your definition of 'better'. Is it:

- better against the current meta?

-better in a head to head game?

In a head to head game Han/Jake might usually come out on top due to the 97pt initative bid.

Against the current meta Rac/Whisper or Rac/Fel might be more effective because Han/Jake suffers from relatively low damage output in timed games. That Procket helps with blowing up aces, but lists with high HP (more common nowadays) can survive that and from that point the damage of this list is quite low, even compared to other 2ship lists. The list worked quite well before the half-MOV rule because you didnt bleed MOV, now you do and have to make up the difference in time.

In my opinion we'll see more of RAC+X than Han+X in the near future.

Any Decimator builds that you think are viable nowadays?

I think Han Jake Han Poe is better than Deci Soontir currently.

People seem to forget that RAC/Whisper made the cut at Worlds, so I'd say it's competitive right now and it's better than the other options above from what I've seen.

I'd care to respectfully disagree. All my inference is theory though.

Firstly, Whisper got replaced by soontir after whisper was nerfed and autothrusters was released.

2. Whisper only barely survived multiple TLT if she has TWO of some sort of extra defensive upgrade: Sensor Jammer, FCS (save focus for defenses), Recon Spec. PLUS Palpatine.

3. Decimators just seriously take the damage too fast compared to how fast they can kill Ys.

You're welcome to theorize all you'd like, but the World's results include all of those elements of the current meta that you talk about. Of the three lists you mention, only one made the top cut. One other, including RAC/Fel was flown by Morgan Reid, the previous year's runner up who knows what he was doing with that list and he didn't make the cut. There also was a Han/Jake list that made top 32, so these were being flown by excellent players all and the one you determined least likely to make the cut actually made it:)

A couple of other counterpoints:

1. Whisper may have been largely replaced by Soontir, but there's probably an argument to be made that people moved away from him too quickly. In fact, now that Omega Leader is out, we're seeing Whisper replacing Soontir in the Palp Shuttle lists and doing quite well. Whisper has Soontir beat in firepower in several ways and that's often a better defense than the offense Soontir provides.

2. Whisper can have trouble with mass TLTs, but a well-flown Whisper can be flown well enough to make sure they are only taking shots from one or two of them. Whisper's improved offense helps burn them down much faster.

3. An EU RAC can put himself where he wants (like R1) and hits pretty darn hard. It's definitely a race but the decimator has it better than the YT (which is what we are using for comparison, right?) in terms of raw health and in terms of partners, especially with Whisper. This is why I think RAC/Whisper beats out Han+whomever and Rac/Fel. That firepower is key in cutting down TLT shots quickly.

We'll see though. It's a really powerful list that I'm surprised more people don't play.

Probably because, and it can't be stressed enough, it's boring as ****

Seriously, this two ship PWT nonsense only took off as easy wins thanks to the exploitation of a heavily flawed mov + matchmaking system that rewarded players for taking this crap, plus the power of prenerf whisper that demanded an easy counter

Now that the system's been fixed to include partial scoring and random matching (rather than matching similar movs) it is no longer possible to abuse sh*tty game mechanics to an easy victory

This finally let us all move on from the dark ages of wave 5, and left players at worlds free to innovate ala the mighty Poe coming in with 2 and 3 wingmates instead of being relegated to some fat ship's caddie

This is mainly why we don't see as many fat PWT builds, FFG took a repairkit to the competitive scene and fixed the game. With nothing left to exploit, these boring builds lost their easy-win luster

And we're all the better for it. Kicking the fatasses off their throne has opened up a world if variety

So if they're not longer an easy no-skill exploitable list (in your opinion), why do you still hate them?

Still boring, time consuming dicefests that limit my contribution to the game to 1. Align arcs and 2. Shoot

Every game against the fat han type crap is a diluted xwing and an inferior experience than facing off against anything else, from doughnut dash or TLTs to swarms

Not sure what anyone sees in those things outside the stunning models and the name. Literally just the name, of one of the most iconic characters

Still boring, time consuming dicefests that limit my contribution to the game to 1. Align arcs and 2. Shoot

Every game against the fat han type crap is a diluted xwing and an inferior experience than facing off against anything else, from doughnut dash or TLTs to swarms

Not sure what anyone sees in those things outside the stunning models and the name. Literally just the name, of one of the most iconic characters

...In your opinion...

Still boring, time consuming dicefests that limit my contribution to the game to 1. Align arcs and 2. Shoot

Every game against the fat han type crap is a diluted xwing and an inferior experience than facing off against anything else, from doughnut dash or TLTs to swarms

Not sure what anyone sees in those things outside the stunning models and the name. Literally just the name, of one of the most iconic characters

...In your opinion...

Right

In my opinion, it's a very beautiful model

Still boring, time consuming dicefests that limit my contribution to the game to 1. Align arcs and 2. Shoot

Every game against the fat han type crap is a diluted xwing and an inferior experience than facing off against anything else, from doughnut dash or TLTs to swarms

Not sure what anyone sees in those things outside the stunning models and the name. Literally just the name, of one of the most iconic characters

Let me tell you that I brought a Falcon in a tournament for the first time 2 weeks ago (because like I said earlier, with all the counters to it, I don't feel cheap anymore for doing so), and it was some of the best game of X-Wing I played, and it was not onesided to only me having a blast. At the end of the tournament, all my opponents loved the games that they played against me, since it was tense until the bitter end and they never felt cheated or bored. So, since all players had a blast, and the Falcon was a part of it, I would say that this ship definetly has a place in this game.

Sorry to see that you still live in the past. We are soon entering wave 8, try to move pass the turret everywhere and overpowered meta of wave 4-5, because we're clearly not there anymore. Taking a highly upgraded Falcon or Decimator is not an easy win button anymore, in fact you are probably shooting yourself in the foot more than anything else. But since probably 9000+ of your forum message is just you expressing how much you hate them, I'm probably wasting my time arguing with you.

The funny thing is how defensive people get about these boring game pieces, and how they utterly ignore all my contributions especially once Wave 7, which I dubbed the best wave evar (so far), get ignored

Easy win or not, I and many others find it to be a boring, dumbed down experience that diminishes an otherwise amazing game. That won't change until it gets the capability to do something other than throw dice at every angle; at every range.

Seriously, even the deci gets oicuun and bombs to make things more fun

The game as of wave 7 has progressed in an amazing, dn near perfect direction and I cannot imagine why anyone would want to bring back the dark ages of wave 5 now that pwts are no longer necessary to compete

What made wave 4-5 boring was not the turrets, but the fact that we were going always against the same build on and on and on... and on....

But now, the Meta is diverse enough to prevent that and while you might personally hate those turrets, a lot of players do like them, they do bring more diversity to this game now, so they have a place. There is a big difference about wanting a ship to still be relevant in the current meta and asking for the return of the same build everywhere meta. I would argue that even though he's one of my favorite pilot, I'm starting to get bored of always going against Soontir as soon as someone want to fly Imperial. Same is starting to happen with Poe. It's not the ship per se and what they bring to the game, it's the lack of diversity. Now we hardly see a Falcon anymore, just look at the Worlds result. Since the ship is not common anymore and you don,t always go against it every game you play, I find myself having fun again going against it, moreso than when I go against yet another Poe.