Two players end their match at time limit with both players having ships on the mat. Draw game.

Player A has lost a 44 point Poe and given up half (28) points on Dash.

Player B has lost no ships.

The difference in their score is more than twelve points (44-0) so the match is a Modified Win and the 28 points for the large ship is awarded to Player B giving him a score of 72-0. To calculate Player B's MoV score for later use I subtracted his points lost from his points destroyed, then added the total to a base of 100 for a total of 172. To calculate Player A's score I subtracted his points destroyed from his points lost, in this case the sum doesn't change since Player A destroyed no ships, and then I subtracted this total from a base of 100 for a total score of 28.

Legit?

Should the loser be doing one more equation and adding that final sum back into a base of 100 for a score of 128? It seems like without this final bit of addition a loss would incur a pretty heavy penalty. In a league format this would make it very hard for players to recover from a loss, and if someone can pull off back to back wins it seems like they would have a huge lead.

Am I doing it all wrong or what? Am I at least on the right track? I see that in other games that are a bit closer the MoV difference can be quite slim, even despite the difference in formulas for winners and losers. This is normal yes?

Oh I wish I had done this before, on any level! Lol...

Legit?

Sounds that way to me.

Should the loser be doing one more equation and adding that final sum back into a base of 100 for a score of 128?

No, the losers score should always be less than 100 points and the winners should always be greater than 100. The closest score I think would be 112 to 88.

Winning does have a pretty big advantage in terms of MoV, however MoV is just a tie breaker for those who have the same score.

Here's the score chart from the tournament rules...

• Win = 5 tournament points

• Modified Win = 3 tournament points

• Draw = 1 tournament point

• Loss = 0 tournament points

So lets say you have 2 people with 15 points each, because they had full wins in 3 games, then you use MoV to figure out who won and who got 2nd.

Two players end their match at time limit with both players having ships on the mat. Draw game.

Player A has lost a 44 point Poe and given up half (28) points on Dash.

Player B has lost no ships.

The difference in their score is more than twelve points (44-0) so the match is a Modified Win and the 28 points for the large ship is awarded to Player B giving him a score of 72-0. To calculate Player B's MoV score for later use I subtracted his points lost from his points destroyed, then added the total to a base of 100 for a total of 172. To calculate Player A's score I subtracted his points destroyed from his points lost, in this case the sum doesn't change since Player A destroyed no ships, and then I subtracted this total from a base of 100 for a total score of 28.

Legit?

Should the loser be doing one more equation and adding that final sum back into a base of 100 for a score of 128? It seems like without this final bit of addition a loss would incur a pretty heavy penalty. In a league format this would make it very hard for players to recover from a loss, and if someone can pull off back to back wins it seems like they would have a huge lead.

Am I doing it all wrong or what? Am I at least on the right track? I see that in other games that are a bit closer the MoV difference can be quite slim, even despite the difference in formulas for winners and losers. This is normal yes?

Oh I wish I had done this before, on any level! Lol...

That's a full win.You only award a Modified Win when the difference between scores is less than 12.

Two players end their match at time limit with both players having ships on the mat. Draw game.

Player A has lost a 44 point Poe and given up half (28) points on Dash.

Player B has lost no ships.

The difference in their score is more than twelve points (44-0) so the match is a Modified Win and the 28 points for the large ship is awarded to Player B giving him a score of 72-0. To calculate Player B's MoV score for later use I subtracted his points lost from his points destroyed, then added the total to a base of 100 for a total of 172. To calculate Player A's score I subtracted his points destroyed from his points lost, in this case the sum doesn't change since Player A destroyed no ships, and then I subtracted this total from a base of 100 for a total score of 28.

Legit?

Nope. Full win. 5 points.

Time running out does not equal a draw game. It is only a draw if the points destroyed by each side are equal.

It looks like you've got the calculation bit right but you seem to be going through an extra step or two to get there.

1. Determine the difference in points between the winner and the loser. In your example there is a 72 point difference.

2. The winner gets the difference + 100. So 172 for your example.

3. The loser gets 100 - the difference. So 28 for your example.

Aha!

Thanks guys!

I thought I was doing it mostly okay, turns out I was.

So recap. Draw is only when MOV (edit: read MOV as Tourney Points) is equal, then use MoV to determine winner of draw. Mod Win is when difference is 12 or less. Full Win is a 12 point difference or greater.

The half-point rule for Large ships is applied at all times.

(Edit: There's a controversy over this, because Organized Play issued a "clarification" that actually confused things more. Alex Davy has confirmed that it's intended to count at all times, and the next edition of the tournament rules should be clearer.)

Aha!

Thanks guys!

I thought I was doing it mostly okay, turns out I was.

So recap. Draw is only when MOV (edit: read MOV as Tourney Points) is equal, then use MoV to determine winner of draw. Mod Win is when difference is 12 or less. Full Win is a 12 point difference or greater.

Just to clarify:

0 point difference in ship points destroyed* = draw (1 point each)

1-11 point difference in ship points destroyed* = modified win (3 points to 0)

12-100 point difference in ship points destroyed* = win (5 points to 0)

* ship points destroyed includes half points (rounded down) for any large base ships at 50% health or lower.

and yeah, the two players' MoV points should always add up to 200

Aha!

Thanks guys!

I thought I was doing it mostly okay, turns out I was.

So recap. Draw is only when MOV (edit: read MOV as Tourney Points) is equal, then use MoV to determine winner of draw. Mod Win is when difference is 12 or less. Full Win is a 12 point difference or greater.

MoV doesn't come into it until after the winner is determined.

Time is called, compare points destroyed by each side.

- difference of 0, draw, both players get 1 Tournament point and 100 MoV points

- Difference is less than 12, modified win, player who destroyed more gets 3 Tournament points and 100+(the difference) added to their MoV for the day, loser gets 0 Tournament points and 100-(the difference) added to their MoV for the day.

- Difference is 12 or greater, full win, player who destroyed more gets 5 Tournament points and 100+(the difference) added to their MoV for the day, loser gets 0 tournament points and 100-(the difference) added to their MoV for the day.

When determining what (the difference) is the half points for large ships rule is in effect(i.e. a 60 point YT-1300 brought to less than half it's total health counts as 30 points destroyed for the opponent when time is called).

Note that in the case of one side being tabled, the tabled player's list counts as being 100 points destroyed regardless of how many total points the list was. For example, loser destroys 25 points, winner tables a 98 point list. The winner gets 100+75, the loser gets 100-75. Those 'missing' points only come into play in the event of a tabling.

While it is important as a TO to understand MoV and tournament scoring, using a piece of tournament software will make it easier.

One that I've seen used by a couple of TOs is Cryodex. You enter each player's score for the round and it handles tracking their tournament score, MoV, and Strength of Schedule (the backup tiebreaker). It also handles making your pairings.

Here I thought the closest MoV scores are 100/100 for an actual Draw awarding 1 tournament point to each side which unfortunately is little better than a loss.

The closest possible score with a winner would be 101/99 which is a modified win giving 3 points to the victor. This is going to be a close game where either the Pup is the only ship on the board or each side has killed almost the same number of points of enemy ships.

The closest MoV with a full win involved would be 106/94 which is enough to allow for the 12 point difference needed for a full win and 5 tournament points. If one side is completely destroyed a 112/88 point MoV distribution is possible where one side has a non-Pup ship left and the other is dead and the gap wides from there to 200/0 if one side completely destroys the other without a single loss.

Edit: Confusing difference between MoV scores and kill margin needed to determine a full win.

Whoops!

I gave the one guy who got a mod win 1 point. And here I thought my memory was okay.

:scribbles:

There!

Thanks again for all the clarifications. I will be writing this stuff down.

Some clarifications of various things above:

a 12-point difference is a full win. Some people keep saying "more than 12." Untrue, it is "12 or more."

a 12-point win will indeed be 112-88 MoV; Someone mentioned 106-94; That's incorrect. 106-94 would be produced by a 6-point victory, which is a Modified Win.

101-99 is the closest winning MoV you can have, on a 1-point Modified Win. You could, of course, have a 100-100 draw.

Some clarifications of various things above:

...

a 12-point win will indeed be 112-88 MoV; Someone mentioned 106-94; That's incorrect. 106-94 would be produced by a 6-point victory, which is a Modified Win.

...

But..... [thinks on it a bit more]

Guess I'm thinking MoV = margin of victory when clearly they are not the same. The difference between the MoV scores is TWICE what the actual margin of victory based on number of points killed. Just sowing confusion...

There is currently one way to get a "full win" with a MoV closer than 112-88: table your opponent with a half-dead, naked Lambda shuttle as your only ship (minimally upgraded can still do it). That gives you a win (5 pts) by virtue of eliminating all of your opponent's ships, but a MoV of only 110-90.

There is currently one way to get a "full win" with a MoV closer than 112-88: table your opponent with a half-dead, naked Lambda shuttle as your only ship (minimally upgraded can still do it). That gives you a win (5 pts) by virtue of eliminating all of your opponent's ships, but a MoV of only 110-90.

Is that under the "large ships score half if half dead" for MoV but still only count toward victory if killed concept? If the shuttle counts as "10 points killed to determine victory" you'd still be looking at a modified win. At least if you're not then you're back to asking "why doesn't a Pup standing alone get a full win?"

There is currently one way to get a "full win" with a MoV closer than 112-88: table your opponent with a half-dead, naked Lambda shuttle as your only ship (minimally upgraded can still do it). That gives you a win (5 pts) by virtue of eliminating all of your opponent's ships, but a MoV of only 110-90.

Is that under the "large ships score half if half dead" for MoV but still only count toward victory if killed concept? If the shuttle counts as "10 points killed to determine victory" you'd still be looking at a modified win. At least if you're not then you're back to asking "why doesn't a Pup standing alone get a full win?"

Eliminating all of your opponent's ships results in a win (worth 5 points), not a modified win (worth 3 points). This does not check MoV at to determine points awarded. See the "End of Match" section on page 3 of the tournament rules:

"At the end of a game round, all of one player’s ships are destroyed. The player with at least one ship remaining immediately earns a win, and the opposing player receives a loss. If neither player has any remaining ships, the game ends in a draw."

Eliminating all of your opponent's ships results in a win (worth 5 points), not a modified win (worth 3 points). This does not check MoV at to determine points awarded. See the "End of Match" section on page 3 of the tournament rules:

"At the end of a game round, all of one player’s ships are destroyed. The player with at least one ship remaining immediately earns a win, and the opposing player receives a loss. If neither player has any remaining ships, the game ends in a draw."

I recognize that but then you run into that question I followed up with. If the Nashta Pup is the last ship standing shouldn't it get a full win? Perhaps it is a specific rule tucked into the FAQ but it certainly would be something that is easy enough to miss.

Yeah, there's a special exception in the FAQ for the Pup (also an exception to the MoV scoring for the Pup, should be a 5 pt win with 100-100 MoV per the tournament rules but FAQ says 3 pt modified win with 101-99 MoV). Who can say why the Pup gets special treatment, but no such exception exists for the Shuttle.

Yeah, there's a special exception in the FAQ for the Pup (also an exception to the MoV scoring for the Pup, should be a 5 pt win with 100-100 MoV per the tournament rules but FAQ says 3 pt modified win with 101-99 MoV). Who can say why the Pup gets special treatment, but no such exception exists for the Shuttle.

My guess they did that so if it comes down to tiebreakers between those two players that match will slightly favor the winner.

Yeah, there's a special exception in the FAQ for the Pup (also an exception to the MoV scoring for the Pup, should be a 5 pt win with 100-100 MoV per the tournament rules but FAQ says 3 pt modified win with 101-99 MoV). Who can say why the Pup gets special treatment, but no such exception exists for the Shuttle.

My guess they did that so if it comes down to tiebreakers between those two players that match will slightly favor the winner.

I'd say 5 tournament points instead of 3 points would STRONGLY favor the winner. Much more than a 2 point edge in MoV would at least.

Yeah, there's a special exception in the FAQ for the Pup (also an exception to the MoV scoring for the Pup, should be a 5 pt win with 100-100 MoV per the tournament rules but FAQ says 3 pt modified win with 101-99 MoV). Who can say why the Pup gets special treatment, but no such exception exists for the Shuttle.

My guess they did that so if it comes down to tiebreakers between those two players that match will slightly favor the winner.

I'd say 5 tournament points instead of 3 points would STRONGLY favor the winner. Much more than a 2 point edge in MoV would at least.

That's tournament points and not tiebreakers though. If two players had met during swiss and had this result and ended up having equal tournament points and their MoVs from their other matches were equal, this ruling woulf place the winning player ahead of the loser in the standings.

That's not very likely to happen but it's all I can really think of to justify adding this rule. I think it's kind of silly to added such a specialized rule that has so little an effect. The only thing that makes any sense is that FFG wants the winner to always have a higher MoV than the loser.

Isn't head to head still a tie breaker? If MoV 101/99 vs. 100/100 make a difference I'd feel very bad about something.