It's basically, if there's a 2400- you try to donut hole it with your PWT. If it's not, yeah, you're just flinging dice at each other. The only thing worse is probably TLTs vs TLTs.
For laughs: How boring exactly is a mirror double turret match?
It's pretty boring.
Not as boring as 4 x TLT Y-Wings versue 4 x TLT Y-Wings, though.
I think turrets were designed, basically like most parts of this game, in an idea of playing Rebels vs Empire;
mirror matches are here only for the competitive games, and like most competitive activities, you will find some boring way to do it, if you only go for winning, and not having fun.
I think mirror matches in general can (not always, but can) be quite dull to play, as I like to see a variety of ships on the table and asymmetric capabilities make for a more interesting game. But I don't find turrets inherently less interesting to play with or against, they just provide a different style of play.
With shiny new defenders on the horizon, I can imagine a defender mirror match where the two opponents joust constantly till death. The excitement comes when 1 decides to turn.
Yeah when turret wing was all the rage the battle reports on YouTube were some of the lamest uninteresting garbage I ever saw.
Well it depends if they decide to rotate clockwise or counterclockwise.
If they agree on one, Rebels probably win, if they don't Imps will win...
On a more serious note, mirror matches are always rather boring, but not because no skill is involved! I did Palpmobile vs Palpmobile recently. Won the initiative roll, gave it to him, win!
Had the same thing with Whisper Chiraneau in the day, that was also a bit bland, and initiative was even more important.
But then i always have fun playing X-Wing. On tournaments and in training, this will just happen!
When you're not playing binary nuanceless Acewing/Turretwing, failing the initiative bid isn't the end of the game for one player.
If my 3 TIE Fighters move before yours do or vise versa, I haven't lost/won the game solely because of it and it's not that big of a deal, moving first has some advantages as does moving last. But you're flying a PS 9 Phantom and your opponent wins the initiative bid/has higher PS you've lost. You have a Soontir ditto and one player can just surrender initiative and guess who has won?
Why are we talking about Turrets?
Dash: "I'm different!"
Not as boring as watching a match of 4 tlt y wings go up against 4 tlt y wings
Those of us who played back in the 2014-2015 peak of Turret-Wing recall pretty **** clearly it was not the 360 arc of fire that was the problem, it was big ship boost that made them dangerous and excessive damage mitigation within a all-or-nothing margin of victory climate that made them annoying to face. The ships were 60 point sinks, so i had no problem with 360 fire. Now, 25 pt TLT Ys? That's much more obnoxious as far as the turret is concerned. Really, only a true WAAC d-bag runs those 4x TLT lists as anything but a joke, so don't play with those people.
Edited by R2ShihTzuI jumped in the game right before wave 4. The game wasn't what you say it was. In fact, in the height of it all, I made too 4 in a store championship with generic x-wings, was one of 2 to do so. The other player went on to win a different store championship that year with, wait for it, x-wings.
The game was only bad if you let it be. The rest of us were smoking everything under the sun with ships you deemed not worthy.
4x TLT Ys vs. 4x TLT Ys would... actually be interesting. Whichever team could close their Ys to range 1 out of arc and hit with their primaries the most would probably win. This might actually result in some interesting maneuvering, assuming the two players are good players and not 1-forward 1-forward throw dice 1-forward throw dice etc players. Just like any other list in the game, it can either be boring as hell or be surprisingly interesting.
Now let's stop making threads like this. They suck.
My current favorite tournament list is 2 TLTs with R4 and 2 Unhinged Ion Warthogs. When I face quad TLT, I basically do exactly what you mention here. With the help of the ion weapons, they can't run away from me, so I single out two of them. Focus fire one with all of my primaries, and ionize a second so it's close by when I destroy the first. By this point, I have 4 ships admittedly some with damage, but he only has 2, so it's not difficult to single one out and rinse, repeat.
That's a nice mix of Ys
Also good to see r4 appreciation. It's incredibly powerful but everyone gets hung up on unhinged
Acewing in a nutshell where everybody is PS8+On a more serious note, mirror matches are always rather boring, but not because no skill is involved! I did Palpmobile vs Palpmobile recently. Won the initiative roll, gave it to him, win!
Had the same thing with Whisper Chiraneau in the day, that was also a bit bland, and initiative was even more important.
*initiative roll*
-You go first!
===FLAWLESS VICTORY===
Yeah but if it was that simple, PS8 rebels could not compete with PS9 imperial aces. But they clearly can!
And i still prefer it to min/maxing statlines like when we saw Biggs walks the dogs vs. or 4BZ vs Howl Swarm all the time
Acewing in a nutshell where everybody is PS8+On a more serious note, mirror matches are always rather boring, but not because no skill is involved! I did Palpmobile vs Palpmobile recently. Won the initiative roll, gave it to him, win!
Had the same thing with Whisper Chiraneau in the day, that was also a bit bland, and initiative was even more important.
*initiative roll*
-You go first!
===FLAWLESS VICTORY===
Yeah but if it was that simple, PS8 rebels could not compete with PS9 imperial aces. But they clearly can!
And i still prefer it to min/maxing statlines like when we saw Biggs walks the dogs vs. or 4BZ vs Howl Swarm all the time
Guess who had a PS9 TURRET that made ven Whisper nervous and has a dial that has almost every maneuver?
ta-daaa
so do I, but acewing trumped Joustwing.
Lower pilot skill is just fine if you want to hit someone with a Conner Net.
Those of us who played back in the 2014-2015 peak of Turret-Wing recall pretty **** clearly it was not the 360 arc of fire that was the problem, it was big ship boost that made them dangerous and excessive damage mitigation within a all-or-nothing margin of victory climate that made them annoying to face. The ships were 60 point sinks, so i had no problem with 360 fire. Now, 25 pt TLT Ys? That's much more obnoxious as far as the turret is concerned. Really, only a true WAAC d-bag runs those 4x TLT lists as anything but a joke, so don't play with those people.
Oh yeah you nail it 100% on the Turrers there!
On tournaments there are actually lists that can handle 4YTLTs pretty well, so they are not that dominant. And outside tournaments i undestand if someone wants to practice or try the list a few times, but then playing it all the time is indeed something you just shouldn't do!
Guess who had a PS9 TURRET that made ven Whisper nervous and has a dial that has almost every maneuver?Acewing in a nutshell where everybody is PS8+On a more serious note, mirror matches are always rather boring, but not because no skill is involved! I did Palpmobile vs Palpmobile recently. Won the initiative roll, gave it to him, win!
Had the same thing with Whisper Chiraneau in the day, that was also a bit bland, and initiative was even more important.
*initiative roll*
-You go first!
===FLAWLESS VICTORY===
Yeah but if it was that simple, PS8 rebels could not compete with PS9 imperial aces. But they clearly can!
And i still prefer it to min/maxing statlines like when we saw Biggs walks the dogs vs. or 4BZ vs Howl Swarm all the time
ta-daaa
so do I, but acewing trumped Joustwing.
If you did not counter Whisper you had indeed to be unbelievably lucky to win against it. I guess you needed him to blank out repeatedly!
I don't however mind acewing that much if we have good ace choices for every faction. At the moment Empire and Rebels do, but Scum is a bit short on Super-Aces!
What is interesting is that they are seemingly buffing acewing further with Imperial aces. But then Tractor beam should be extremely good against few aces. No idea where this will end...
That's a nice mix of Ys
Also good to see r4 appreciation. It's incredibly powerful but everyone gets hung up on unhinged
R4 is the best card in scum, IMO. Without it those TLTs are hard pressed to ever touch a 3 agility ship with autothrusters. Used to play 4x BTL-A4's. It brings cheap, effective action economy to generics, and we will soon be able to drop it on the JumpMaster. I also think the lost I mentioned, 2 Ion Hogs with unhinged and two TLTs with R4 is far and away better than 4 of either 1. Both lists have impressive damage, but mixing them gives you more tricks and more options and defenses against multiple list types.
It's honestly one of the toughest X Wing matches to play.
Advantages are gained 1 HP or 1 Shot at a time.
The player to miss 1 shot or bump and lose that evade action/focus action first will lose.
If you play it a few times, you'll realize that there really are lots of intricate things within the match when you are desperately trying to gain that 1-2 hull advantage.
Acewing in a nutshell where everybody is PS8+On a more serious note, mirror matches are always rather boring, but not because no skill is involved! I did Palpmobile vs Palpmobile recently. Won the initiative roll, gave it to him, win!
Had the same thing with Whisper Chiraneau in the day, that was also a bit bland, and initiative was even more important.
*initiative roll*
-You go first!
===FLAWLESS VICTORY===
Yeah but if it was that simple, PS8 rebels could not compete with PS9 imperial aces. But they clearly can!
And i still prefer it to min/maxing statlines like when we saw Biggs walks the dogs vs. or 4BZ vs Howl Swarm all the time
Truth on the min/maxing part. Some matches you could go into KNOWING your victor chances > the opponent's solely based on hp/agility/red dice. You could even pull up an excel spreadsheet and plot out an entire match, making some assumptions on actions, K turns, blocks, using average results, and understand if a match would be close or if it would be a wash in your/your opponent's favor. That alone would determine how badly you'd have to out play your opponent.
I think the only uninteresting math is 2 clone Outrider dashes facing each other. They are either within each other donut, or they are not. And range 2 or 3 does not matter as they are firing. They also don't care about asteroids. And that's actually not even valid in a timed match when one of the two Dashes is more damaged.
Besides that ... there is a lot that matters, all about concentrating fire and getting attacks done in the favorable range, + way more things depending on the ships.
I don't think any of the turret matches were very boring in the opening moves, but the endgames where you only had Fat Turrets left... Blegh. Just rolling dice and trying not to hit asteroids. And since they could get some pretty serious mitigation, those could go on for a long time.
I don't think any of the turret matches were very boring in the opening moves, but the endgames where you only had Fat Turrets left... Blegh. Just rolling dice and trying not to hit asteroids. And since they could get some pretty serious mitigation, those could go on for a long time.
Well yeah you need to hit three times to get one damage through.
But at least they fired at each other the really dull games involved fatties boosting away so the ship lasted to the end of the match.