It is a simple distinction.

No it really isn't. In both cases you clearly selected the wrong direction. But in one case there's nothing we can do to affect the outcome, in the other there is. That's especially true if the guy comments 'Gah I meant to turn left!' Would anyone in that situation let him fix it?

My opponent said he would have seriously considered forcing me to fly him off.

there is IMO anyway no way you could do that and not be a jerk.

I lucked out and escorted both Horn and Poe off the board with a two hull Ion Canon B-wing to win a game and didn't feel like I won. Good dice helped me walk Horn off while Poe was finishing off my Tycho, then he got one pass on my B with Poe. I survived and did a little 2k turn and he just moved forward one and I proceeded to take a couple turns to walk him off too. I felt bad. He had beat me the rest of the game. I had tons of dumb maneuvers and he'd played a cool game up until my B latched onto Horn.

In the end, I didn't feel right because I felt I'd lucked out and taken advantage of his one or two mistakes where I'd just managed to survive my own. Just felt cheap i guess.

This is a good example of him snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. However, I'll bet he never lets that happen again. Remember this, you often learn more from a defeat than you do from a victory.

This is also a good example of the fact that it's never over till it's over, and mistakes, even when you are ahead, can cost you.

I think only a WaaC player would fly you off on turn 1, it's one think once you in a dog fight but quite another if you've just started the turn.

I'm feeling like I will get flak for this but I feel I should come clean.

I decided to join in on the Vassal tourney fun and signed up for the TC Open. I played my first match tonight, against a Palp/Whisper/Soontir list, and I flew Han/Miranda. Without getting into too much detail, my opponent made it clear he wasn't 100% focused for the game. But we went ahead with the match.

For the first two instances, He revealed his shuttle dial before he decloaked his Phantom. I reminded him and allowed him to decloak since I had yet to reveal any maneuvers myself.

Towards the end of the match, it was Miranda at 2 hull behind the shuttle (mostly full health), and Soontir at 1 hull. I got an opportunity to shoot at a tokenless Soontir with 1 hull.

I rolled 3 hits with my TLT, and he rolled 2 blanks and an evade. At this point I literally shouted "YES!!" in the house thinking I had hit, and he pulled his ship off the board thinking he lost him as well. As there were no more shots, I set my dial for the next turn. It was then when an observer pointed out why he pulled the ship off with autothrusters and palp still available. I honestly had completely forgotten about it, and it was then when the observer said "its too late now".

Now I was put on the spot. I was in prime position to win the match, but the window had closed for him to take it back... if this was on an actual table, once the ship is pulled off the board he wouldn't have been able to put it back. I decided to stay silent, and waited for his response. He set his dial for next round and we continued.

I didn't rush him to forget to use his abilities, I gave him two other missed opportunities, and if he had said something, I probably would have let him take it back. Also, I still had another shot, unknown if it would hit or not.

So why do I still feel like crap about it?

Last night an opponent of mine fired with a PS 6 before his PS 8. Haha nope, missed opportunity. Free damage mitigation for Boba.

Best to just discard their anger if they get angry, they're not flying casual. You shouldn't have let him decloak either.

Don't be afraid of militant casuals. Win at all costs, you're completely within the rules.

I'm feeling like I will get flak for this but I feel I should come clean.

I decided to join in on the Vassal tourney fun and signed up for the TC Open. I played my first match tonight, against a Palp/Whisper/Soontir list, and I flew Han/Miranda. Without getting into too much detail, my opponent made it clear he wasn't 100% focused for the game. But we went ahead with the match.

For the first two instances, He revealed his shuttle dial before he decloaked his Phantom. I reminded him and allowed him to decloak since I had yet to reveal any maneuvers myself.

Towards the end of the match, it was Miranda at 2 hull behind the shuttle (mostly full health), and Soontir at 1 hull. I got an opportunity to shoot at a tokenless Soontir with 1 hull.

I rolled 3 hits with my TLT, and he rolled 2 blanks and an evade. At this point I literally shouted "YES!!" in the house thinking I had hit, and he pulled his ship off the board thinking he lost him as well. As there were no more shots, I set my dial for the next turn. It was then when an observer pointed out why he pulled the ship off with autothrusters and palp still available. I honestly had completely forgotten about it, and it was then when the observer said "its too late now".

Now I was put on the spot. I was in prime position to win the match, but the window had closed for him to take it back... if this was on an actual table, once the ship is pulled off the board he wouldn't have been able to put it back. I decided to stay silent, and waited for his response. He set his dial for next round and we continued.

I didn't rush him to forget to use his abilities, I gave him two other missed opportunities, and if he had said something, I probably would have let him take it back. Also, I still had another shot, unknown if it would hit or not.

So why do I still feel like crap about it?

Last night an opponent of mine fired with a PS 6 before his PS 8. Haha nope, missed opportunity. Free damage mitigation for Boba.

Best to just discard their anger if they get angry, they're not flying casual. You shouldn't have let him decloak either.

Don't be afraid of militant casuals. Win at all costs, you're completely within the rules.

I thought you weren't gonna make posts like this after last time.

Last night an opponent of mine fired with a PS 6 before his PS 8. Haha nope, missed opportunity. Free damage mitigation for Boba.

Best to just discard their anger if they get angry, they're not flying casual. You shouldn't have let him decloak either.

Don't be afraid of militant casuals. Win at all costs, you're completely within the rules.

While you're not wrong...I completely disagree with you. What you propose feels much more militant. Do your thing, but be sure not to make a single mistake yourself. Karma is a harsh mistress. I know if I were playing someone like that, I'd do everything within the rules to bring it back around.

It is a simple distinction.

No it really isn't. In both cases you clearly selected the wrong direction. But in one case there's nothing we can do to affect the outcome, in the other there is. That's especially true if the guy comments 'Gah I meant to turn left!' Would anyone in that situation let him fix it?

Again, yes - there really is. In one case, the error is obvious - the player thought that the ship's dial was set to go left when it was actually set to go right. The reason that it is obvious is that, except for a very limited number of very specific circumstances, there is no reason to fly a ship off of the mat. In the other case, whether or not there was actually an error is unclear. Sure, the player says that they meant to make a left, but there are plenty of reasons to make a right in order to face down Corran Horn (again - shooting him, blocking him, making him shoot, preventing him from barrel rolling, making him use the double tap so that he cannot shoot next turn, bumping him, blocking him from completing his maneuver, ect., ect., ect.). This is why people are so willing to allow player who select a maneuver that would obviously send them off the mat to perform the mirror of that maneuver - because is no real room for debate as to whether or not the actual intent of the player who made the mistake was to select the maneuver in the opposite direction.

I'm feeling like I will get flak for this but I feel I should come clean.

I decided to join in on the Vassal tourney fun and signed up for the TC Open. I played my first match tonight, against a Palp/Whisper/Soontir list, and I flew Han/Miranda. Without getting into too much detail, my opponent made it clear he wasn't 100% focused for the game. But we went ahead with the match.

For the first two instances, He revealed his shuttle dial before he decloaked his Phantom. I reminded him and allowed him to decloak since I had yet to reveal any maneuvers myself.

Towards the end of the match, it was Miranda at 2 hull behind the shuttle (mostly full health), and Soontir at 1 hull. I got an opportunity to shoot at a tokenless Soontir with 1 hull.

I rolled 3 hits with my TLT, and he rolled 2 blanks and an evade. At this point I literally shouted "YES!!" in the house thinking I had hit, and he pulled his ship off the board thinking he lost him as well. As there were no more shots, I set my dial for the next turn. It was then when an observer pointed out why he pulled the ship off with autothrusters and palp still available. I honestly had completely forgotten about it, and it was then when the observer said "its too late now".

Now I was put on the spot. I was in prime position to win the match, but the window had closed for him to take it back... if this was on an actual table, once the ship is pulled off the board he wouldn't have been able to put it back. I decided to stay silent, and waited for his response. He set his dial for next round and we continued.

I didn't rush him to forget to use his abilities, I gave him two other missed opportunities, and if he had said something, I probably would have let him take it back. Also, I still had another shot, unknown if it would hit or not.

So why do I still feel like crap about it?

Last night an opponent of mine fired with a PS 6 before his PS 8. Haha nope, missed opportunity. Free damage mitigation for Boba.

Best to just discard their anger if they get angry, they're not flying casual. You shouldn't have let him decloak either.

Don't be afraid of militant casuals. Win at all costs, you're completely within the rules.

I bet you're a hoot to play against.

Again, yes - there really is.

Again no there isn't, try reading what I actually typed and not what you assumed I typed.

In both cases the player had the dial the wrong way and went left when they meant to go right. In both cases it's plain to see that left is a better choice and right is going to get a ship destroyed.

So they are in fact the same exact thing, but you and others are willing to write one off as a clear mistake and the other you aren't. Adding additional conditions doesn't change anything, because in both cases the intent of the player was to go one way but they made a mistake and set the dial for the wrong direction.

But you are doing a wonderful job of proving my point...

I'm feeling like I will get flak for this but I feel I should come clean.

I decided to join in on the Vassal tourney fun and signed up for the TC Open. I played my first match tonight, against a Palp/Whisper/Soontir list, and I flew Han/Miranda. Without getting into too much detail, my opponent made it clear he wasn't 100% focused for the game. But we went ahead with the match.

For the first two instances, He revealed his shuttle dial before he decloaked his Phantom. I reminded him and allowed him to decloak since I had yet to reveal any maneuvers myself.

Towards the end of the match, it was Miranda at 2 hull behind the shuttle (mostly full health), and Soontir at 1 hull. I got an opportunity to shoot at a tokenless Soontir with 1 hull.

I rolled 3 hits with my TLT, and he rolled 2 blanks and an evade. At this point I literally shouted "YES!!" in the house thinking I had hit, and he pulled his ship off the board thinking he lost him as well. As there were no more shots, I set my dial for the next turn. It was then when an observer pointed out why he pulled the ship off with autothrusters and palp still available. I honestly had completely forgotten about it, and it was then when the observer said "its too late now".

Now I was put on the spot. I was in prime position to win the match, but the window had closed for him to take it back... if this was on an actual table, once the ship is pulled off the board he wouldn't have been able to put it back. I decided to stay silent, and waited for his response. He set his dial for next round and we continued.

I didn't rush him to forget to use his abilities, I gave him two other missed opportunities, and if he had said something, I probably would have let him take it back. Also, I still had another shot, unknown if it would hit or not.

So why do I still feel like crap about it?

Last night an opponent of mine fired with a PS 6 before his PS 8. Haha nope, missed opportunity. Free damage mitigation for Boba.

Best to just discard their anger if they get angry, they're not flying casual. You shouldn't have let him decloak either.

Don't be afraid of militant casuals. Win at all costs, you're completely within the rules.

I bet you're a hoot to play against.

Generally I'm a friendly guy. I try to be friendly when I deny missed opportunities.

It's my militant casual opponent that's the one not being a hoot to play against, making a big deal over THEIR mistake.

Hobojesus, I just stopped caring. Someone getting flustered and then getting double flustered when they read my post on here doesn't bother me.

I don't forget things often and when I do I don't make a big deal about it. I actually like a more competitive cutthroat atmosphere. Hold me to my mistakes, I fly casual and I don't mind.

I'm feeling like I will get flak for this but I feel I should come clean.

I decided to join in on the Vassal tourney fun and signed up for the TC Open. I played my first match tonight, against a Palp/Whisper/Soontir list, and I flew Han/Miranda. Without getting into too much detail, my opponent made it clear he wasn't 100% focused for the game. But we went ahead with the match.

For the first two instances, He revealed his shuttle dial before he decloaked his Phantom. I reminded him and allowed him to decloak since I had yet to reveal any maneuvers myself.

Towards the end of the match, it was Miranda at 2 hull behind the shuttle (mostly full health), and Soontir at 1 hull. I got an opportunity to shoot at a tokenless Soontir with 1 hull.

I rolled 3 hits with my TLT, and he rolled 2 blanks and an evade. At this point I literally shouted "YES!!" in the house thinking I had hit, and he pulled his ship off the board thinking he lost him as well. As there were no more shots, I set my dial for the next turn. It was then when an observer pointed out why he pulled the ship off with autothrusters and palp still available. I honestly had completely forgotten about it, and it was then when the observer said "its too late now".

...

So why do I still feel like crap about it?

You feel like crap because you're human and have some sympathy for the other guy.

While I do believe in pointing out things that can be used with no drawback (autothrusters in this case) I'm not so generous when it comes to things that are optional and there may be reasons not to use it in a given situation (Palpatine).

Looking at this situation I'm also wondering if your opponent pulling the ship was just some kind of concession on his part. If he wasn't focused on the game then maybe he actually wanted to lose and thus purposefully didn't use both of those abilities. If you had your second shot left he may also have felt that while he dodged it once he wasn't going to do it again so why prolong the agony? Maybe he was "playing" but here it is not the same thing as "coming to play."

Again, yes - there really is.

Again no there isn't, try reading what I actually typed and not what you assumed I typed.

In both cases the player had the dial the wrong way and went left when they meant to go right. In both cases it's plain to see that left is a better choice and right is going to get a ship destroyed.

So they are in fact the same exact thing, but you and others are willing to write one off as a clear mistake and the other you aren't. Adding additional conditions doesn't change anything, because in both cases the intent of the player was to go one way but they made a mistake and set the dial for the wrong direction.

But you are doing a wonderful job of proving my point...

In the case of turning in front of another ship, there are a multitude of potential reasons why an opponent may do that. Do you want me to repeat some more for you, of do you accept that?

So, the reason that very few people would be receptive to the idea of allowing your hypothetical ship that banked in front of Corran Horn to perform the mirror of the maneuver of indicated on the hypothetical ship's dial is because there is no certainty that the opponent did not intend to perform the maneuver indicated on its dial. This is what makes the two situations so obviously different.

You are ignoring the fact that, in your Corran Horn hypothetical, Corran Horn and the other ship would have also have moved or would be moving, obstacles may be impacting maneuvering lanes, and various other strategic and tactical variables would be in play. Your hypothetical provides no certainty that the opponent meant to perform the mirror maneuver while the classic 'turn directly off the edge' hypothetical provides almost total certainty.

You seem to think that this creates a situation where the opponent must have meant to do the mirror or a bank maneuver that is actually on his dial, but you clearly haven't thought it through. Unless your hypothetical opponent somehow knew the final positions of Corran Horn (who can also barrel roll as an action) and the other ship before he selected his own maneuver, then how could he have known that only the left bank was the correct maneuver? This hypothetical comes no where close to what you are trying to demonstrate.

Vayn, the same things that make you feel bad for winning that way are the same things that make you fun to play against. You're a good player who still flies casual.

If anyone breached etiquette there, it was the spectator who brought up the missed opportunity and put you on the spot about it.

What Zerotc said.

Recently I started using the card Predator, which I never used before. I've missed a lot of opportunities and re-rolls, even when I am focused on the game. I'm not used to any of my ships having that ability. Not a single person has said "Hey, you can Pred that roll." Usually, when that ship dies or at the end of the match, I groan and kick myself for having forgotten about it. That's my fault, not any of my opponents.

You did nothing wrong. Enjoy your win and don't worry about it.

I do the samething with my Vader... that's why I just stopped using Predator and use VI instead now. Why pay 3 pts for a card I forget to use 90% of time?

You should call Predator every time you roll attack dice. If it ends up being a good roll, choose zero dice to reroll. That way you establish the habit of calling it and don't forget you have it. It is a 'may' ability and you can call it and change your mind, as long as you don't reroll anything you don't want to.

Why is takesies backsies expected?

There are no takesies backsies. Ever.

Take responsibility for your play. Own your errors as much as your excellence.

Well... I'll make an exception for my own rule when I'm playing against a kid or a total noob. I mean, I really need that cushion, kids can be really good at X-Wing!

Jokes aside, you shouldn't ever expect lenience with the rules or missed opportunities from your opponent, and you shouldn't need to feel that such lenience is expected of you either. Whether or not you choose to grant this consideration is entirely up to you, and in either case you should be a gracious opponent.

A lot of people read Sun T'zu (for many reasons) and then think they have become rapacious predators. They forget that the Art of War also taught that the first rule of engagement is honour.

It's interesting the weight we put on certain mistakes.

Good point. I think we do put more weight on some mistakes than others or at least have a different perspective of them.

I know some people would if someone took a left turn, and flew a ship off the table, be willing to let them them 'fix the mistake' and take what clearly intended to be right turn.

But let's say someone takes a left bank which puts them at range 1 in front of of Corran (who can double tap this round) but a right bank would of put them behind a different ship of mine and neither ship could shoot back.

In the first case people seem to think 'well it was a clear mistake and he shouldn't lose a ship because of that' But in the later case how many people would say 'nah it's cool you clearly meant to do a right bank so you can change your dial'? Both were really the same mistake.

In the first case they simply lose the ship, nothing they can do about it. In the second case we destroy the ship, and in theory they can do something about it... But really they can't.

I know this is kinda stupid, BUT what ship would move after Corran, that wouldn't have a pretty good chance of surviving the hit(s)? And/or arc dodging the hit(s)

For myself, I never take anything back. I learned this trick from mtg, I find that I'm less likely to miss a trigger next time around when it costs me a game. It improves me as a player.

However, I have no issues letting my opponent correct his mistakes, they might not learn the same way I do or be as competitive. But for me, if I make my bed I lay in it, wrong dial fly me off the board, activate low ps shooting first turns out I just didn't feel like shooting with the rest of my fleet, ect.

Why is takesies backsies expected?

There are no takesies backsies. Ever.

Take backs? As in changing something that was actually done probably should not be done or expected. However there is a difference between accidently skipping over something and DELIBERATELY skipping over something; at times they may look alike especially when it benefits you but I'll say that something is triggered/would be triggered make sure it is intentionally skipped if it isn't acted on.