A friend of mine and I are fun/cinematic/casual style players working to develop interesting scenarios for our game group, so spend a lot of time just trying things out to see how they work. In our most recent play test we were working on a strike fleet size battle and restricted ourselves to only small/medium ships. He ended up running three Raiders w/ tractor beams that ended up ganging up on my MC30c bringing it to a crawl right in the path of his VSD. Needless to say it didn't go well for me at that point. And while I was impressed with his ingenuity I walked away with a bad taste in my mouth for the tractor beam upgrade.

My main issue is that it is basically a magical laser beam of negative effects. Not affected by LOS. Not affected by terrain. It simply happens with no chance that it will fail. There doesn't seem to be a counter that is all that compelling beyond spamming Navigation commands and trying to stay just at the edge of long range so that you can shoot and still buy enough time to get back up to speed.

Am I missing something?

On a side note, here's a different way that tractor beams could have been implemented: Make it an attack. If it hits (i.e. any hit, even on shields) then discard all damage and the ship immediately decreases speed by one, no blocking with Nav tokens, to a minimum of 1 for same size ships and 0 for smaller size ships. There would be NE against larger ships. This does a few things:

• Gives the target a chance to avoid the negative effect which improves at longer ranges.
• Takes into account terrain, LOS, etc....
• Naturally scales the possibility to the attacker/defender (e.g. a VSD would almost always tractor beam a CR-90)
• Rewards good maneuvering for players who can setup a dual-arc attack (i.e. tractor beam out of one and shoot with another)
• Rewards a savvy player who can get lucky enough to bring smaller ships to speed zero.

So you pay for it, and when you attack you can cancel all dice, if one is a hit, to reduce speed by 1?

That would be goofily punitive to large ships that throw many dice, but it also makes the card much worse.

Is it an actual game balance issue that you have a problem with, or just the fact that it's automatic? If you make it harder to use, and at a much steeper cost, then it should be drastically more powerful, no? You want to increase its cost, and make its ability worse.

Tractor beams have a few draw backs.

1. they only work vs smaller or same sized ships

2. they are limited to range 1 - 5

3. they can be mitigated by spending a token.

Having said that, in your case, three Raiders with them vs your MC-30 was a bad match. However, Raiders are very fragile and you could have smashed them with your other ships.

3. they can be mitigated by spending a token.

Actually spending the token is compulsory if you have one.

Raymus Taintive.

Hard Countered

Tractor beams have a few draw backs.

1. they only work vs smaller or same sized ships

2. they are limited to range 1 - 5

3. they can be mitigated by spending a token.

Having said that, in your case, three Raiders with them vs your MC-30 was a bad match. However, Raiders are very fragile and you could have smashed them with your other ships.

I was the one FlVolunteers was playing. In his defense, the Raiders swooped in, slowed down the MC30 and got the heck out of there, staying at Speed 4 the entire time. One got pretty mauled, but they were all able to fly out of the danger zone in a wide arc that allowed them to repair for a fresh run. My Vctory also had tractors.

I am curious how it can be countered myself, if only to counter the counter.

@DerErlkoenig - That is a good point about the larger ships. Perhaps cancelling all damage would be a bit much on my alternate take, maybe making it a critical effect would be better as, from what I understand, they can be activated even without drawing damage cards.

My issue is that being automatic causes an unbalance in the game. As far as I can tell it is the only automatic negative effect in the game. From my vantage it looks like they were trying to balance out the VSD being a bit slow and overcompensated.

@EnglishPete - I don't view range 5 being a limitation as that's the maximum shooting range and it is necessary to eventually get inside that distance to shoot, especially since it's not hindered by terrain. Also, losing the token isn't a limitation, it's a good thing for the shooter because it prevents the target from using that token in a positive manner. For example, if they had slowed down in previous turns and were planning on shooting and scooting.

@Ginkapo - great advice, thanks!

I've always liked Raymus, but ever since someone on here said last week about tying him up with Taintive the possibilities are endless.

They bring tractor beams, manouver tokens EVERYWHERE.

They dont bring tractor beams. Engineer tokens EVERYWHERE.

They havent actually hurt you, CF or Squadron tokens EVERYWHERE.

I've always liked Raymus, but ever since someone on here said last week about tying him up with Taintive the possibilities are endless.

They bring tractor beams, manouver tokens EVERYWHERE.

They dont bring tractor beams. Engineer tokens EVERYWHERE.

They havent actually hurt you, CF or Squadron tokens EVERYWHERE.

Shhhh, my opponent is listening!!!

Thanks again, I never thought of it that way. He's almost like a Jr. Tarkin!!!

Raymus Antilles on tantive four does sound like a pretty strong counter. He can hand out navigate tokens like candy two at a time to any ship.

Sorry, I'm in love

A 1000 Raiders with a 1000 Tractor beams is basically useless against any number AF2 or MC80.

So the main limitation to tractor beams is the size of the opposing sides ships.

If the three Raiders was up against a fleet that only had Medium and/or Large ships, then you have wasted 18 points on a useless upgrade.

If the three Raiders was up against an Corvette swarm then the 18 points used, is spend on a very usefull upgrade.

But the Corvette swarm is almost a one trick pony, the Raider swarm with tractor beams likewise.

Most solid builds IMHO tends to be more all round.

The never ending game, of Rock, Paper and Scissor, of Build and Counter-Build, will always make the too specialist builds less work-able in the long run, than lists that are more all round.

The two ISD's or Two MC80's with Tractor beams is what you should worry about

Getting pinned down by a pair of those monsters, while you are in a flimsy Raider or Corvette, could really spoil ones day.

The 12 points spend here, will only be wasted if the oppposing side refuses to move his ships. faster than speed 1.

. As far as I can tell it is the only automatic negative effect in the game.

Mauler Mithel

Boba Fett

both do automatic damage

just off the top of my head

. As far as I can tell it is the only automatic negative effect in the game.

Mauler Mithel

Boba Fett

both do automatic damage

just off the top of my head

Should have specified that I was talking strictly about ship to ship combat.

I think they should be call repulsor beams sometimes.

Saw a situation where an ozzel ISD was flying at spd3 and was planning the use his nav token to slow down to spd 1 or else it would fly off the board. It then got tractor beamed and lost the token, the next cmd wasnt navigate so it flew off the board...quite odd considering the beam has the intent to slow you down right?

I think they should be call repulsor beams sometimes.

Saw a situation where an ozzel ISD was flying at spd3 and was planning the use his nav token to slow down to spd 1 or else it would fly off the board. It then got tractor beamed and lost the token, the next cmd wasnt navigate so it flew off the board...quite odd considering the beam has the intent to slow you down right?

Quite obvious that the design team has overlooked the fact, that you can have that effect with a Tractor Beam.

Tractor beams are supposed to slow ships down and prevent them from trying to run away, not let them continue their high speed runs.

A quick house rule:

When you activate roll a blue die, on a hit or critical you may select one enemy or friendly ship at distance 1-5 and reduce its speed by 1. Ships that are larger than you ,are only affected on criticals.

There problem solved.

I think they're fine as-is. Also, they can be used to push as well.

The best point the OP brings up is the LOS for the tractor beam. It seems to me that you should be able to hide behind a rock or another ship to prevent a tractor beam.

Tractor beams are situational. I've used them in quite a few games. Yes they really help in slowing down fast rebel ships, however i've regretted slowing down assault frigates before. Tractors are also less useful in imperial mirror matches. Oh you slowed down my ISD? Good, now im in close range for another round.

Thank you all for the discussion!! I'm picking up a lot more on the use of the upgrade and how it affects the game. And I really like your house rule option @Kiwi Rat.

I guess what it comes down to is that, given that we were restricting our builds to med/sm ships it ended up really shining a spotlight on the upgrade and threw our particular game way off balance, perhaps more so than it does in "general play". I'm still a little unsatisfied that there is absolutely no impact by obstructed LOS or a trade off for activating the ability (e.g. "You may only attack once this activation", "Reduce your attack pool by 1 die for this activation", "You must speak in the Emperor's voice for the remainder of the turn", etc...). My favorite thing about Armada is that it is a game of subtlety and it heavily rewards good planning and tactics, so the mechanics of the tractor beams seem out of place to me as you just need to "ballpark" your moves and your opponent will be penalized even if he was the tactical acumen of Attila the Hun.

On a side note, I am not a fan of Mauler Mithel and Boba Fett causing automatic damage either. But that's a whole different discussion and I bring a lot of Rebel bias with me on that topic

And all that being said, if X-Wing is any indicator, FFG is fantastic about tweaking their games to keep it as balanced as this type of game can possibly be (e.g. the zero-cost "upgrades"). And while I may play the occasional game of Armada/X-wing that has a hint of Brie I have yet to play one that stinks of Limburger.

The never ending game, of Rock, Paper and Scissor, of Build and Counter-Build, will always make the too specialist builds less work-able in the long run, than lists that are more all round.

Totally agree, which is why I got out of competitive gaming some time ago. With my particular personality it turns into my personal "rabbit hole". I can't think of any game that involves customization of forces that isn't susceptible to the pendulum effect to some degree or another. I used to compete in a historical game called Armati that came the closest to balance I've seen and even that had it's "power house" factions.

The two ISD's or Two MC80's with Tractor beams is what you should worry about

Mind reader! My ulterior motive to posting this topic was to figure out how I could counter a 2 ISD build with tractor beams as I believe that our last game foreshadows what @Thalomen has in store for me.

It could always be worse. Imagine the havoc if you could 'crack the whip' with a tractor beam, and force a ship to speed up!

It could always be worse. Imagine the havoc if you could 'crack the whip' with a tractor beam, and force a ship to speed up!

The "Ludicrous Speed" upgrade. The Schwartz is strong with that idea...

Any ship accelerated beyond their normal limits may only move in a straight line, and can neither fire nor expend defense tokens, because Col. Sanders didn't get a chance to prepare first.

Next turn, change the speed to zero. Same combat restrictions, as everyone takes five.

The two ISD's or Two MC80's with Tractor beams is what you should worry about

Mind reader! My ulterior motive to posting this topic was to figure out how I could counter a 2 ISD build with tractor beams as I believe that our last game foreshadows what @Thalomen has in store for me.

What, me? Two ISDs? It's as though you expect me to crush the rebellion with one swift stroke.