Regarding your first point:

At the trench run, one could argue that they needed their weapons armed because hey look, there's TIEs shooting at us. You're in extremely hostile territory; it makes perfect sense to keep your weapons ready. I'd rather get there alive than get there fast.

The rest of the points are good though. Personally, I'm okay with the "closed S-foils = go faster" line of thought because I grew up playing the X-wing/Rogue Squadron games. I like to think the lasers need to be farther apart to fire for fear of overheating, which would cause them to explode. Then when they close them, they cannot shoot and the power from the lasers goes to the engines. But that's just me.

During the trench run they were specifically intending to shoot only proton torpedoes, so if closing S foils would have made them go faster they probably would have done it then.

Have you flown an x-wing lately? They sort of rule

I've blown a bunch up with the tie/D IA didn't save them once.

It was my understanding that S-Foils were also supposed to be closed during hyperspace.

ESB showed the rebel fleet at the Rendezous Point. That were near Sullust in ROTJ.

Wow, maybe I have things wrong... I've always assumed the "rendezvous point" mentioned on Hoth was indeed the massing at Sullust.

Is it not?

Nope! The post- Hoth rondevous point was a very risky jump out of the galactic plane, as evidenced form the view as Chewie and Lando take the Falcon to go after Han.

ESB showed the rebel fleet at the Rendezous Point. That were near Sullust in ROTJ.

Wow, maybe I have things wrong... I've always assumed the "rendezvous point" mentioned on Hoth was indeed the massing at Sullust.

Is it not?

Nope! The post- Hoth rondevous point was a very risky jump out of the galactic plane, as evidenced form the view as Chewie and Lando take the Falcon to go after Han.

The Galaxy Far Far Away must have lots of dark matter because that joker is rotating fast enough to see it in real time. The whole galaxy is going faster than light!

See... I always kind of liked the whole clever-use-of-S-Foils-in-combat Rogue Squadron pulled. The idea of S-Foils in combat is to cut energy to the blasters and redivert it to the engines for a higher speed. Maybe it's not the most sensible thing, but it makes some sense.

Also they do say "Slow down to attack speed". Sure you can explain that as them simply slowing down post S-Foils but, just consider for a moment that can also apply to game mechanics.

With what I propsed, the Variable Configuration thing, it benefits more than the X-Wing, but only the X-Wing freely.

See... I always kind of liked the whole clever-use-of-S-Foils-in-combat Rogue Squadron pulled. The idea of S-Foils in combat is to cut energy to the blasters and redivert it to the engines for a higher speed. Maybe it's not the most sensible thing, but it makes some sense.

Also they do say "Slow down to attack speed". Sure you can explain that as them simply slowing down post S-Foils but, just consider for a moment that can also apply to game mechanics.

With what I propsed, the Variable Configuration thing, it benefits more than the X-Wing, but only the X-Wing freely.

I'm fairly sure Garven says 'Accelerate to attack speed'.

I just checked, and he does.

The SW universe isn't sensible. It's boats and planes that happen to be in space. Closing s-foils to reduce the non-existent drag thus fits thematically.

Ships like the x-wing had maneuvering repulsors built into the wings. So by shifting these outwards and away from the center of mass (in attack position) would increase the maneuvering capabilities by changing the leverage point.

And there's 1 more ship in your collection with s-foils, the aggressor.

S-Foils were to act as radiators due to engines and weapons generating a lot of excess heat.

Turning your guns off and closing them wouldn't help a ship go faster, it does not make it more aerodynamic. IF you want to say, "Well they divert energy", sure, that at least is feasible, but has nothing to do with S-Foils, they can just turn the guns off.

IF anything, having S-Foils open allows more power to be used (Since the excess heat can be dissipated faster) which means more engine power, more shield power, more weapons power.

Anyhow, the only thing the X-Wing needs to boost it's ability in the joust (where it belongs) is astromech pricing reduced by 1pt via a 0pt Title. It's a simple fix, the mathwing points to it, and it keeps the ships going without any huge changes to gameplay or expectation.

See... I always kind of liked the whole clever-use-of-S-Foils-in-combat Rogue Squadron pulled. The idea of S-Foils in combat is to cut energy to the blasters and redivert it to the engines for a higher speed. Maybe it's not the most sensible thing, but it makes some sense.

Also they do say "Slow down to attack speed". Sure you can explain that as them simply slowing down post S-Foils but, just consider for a moment that can also apply to game mechanics.

With what I propsed, the Variable Configuration thing, it benefits more than the X-Wing, but only the X-Wing freely.

I'm fairly sure Garven says 'Accelerate to attack speed'.

I just checked, and he does.

Oh. My bad. Whups.

Another problem with an S-foil card is that S-foils are a standard fixture in the ships thta have them. They are not a mod or title. If they were to be included as a gameplay mechanic they should have been incorporated into the default action bar. It doens't make sense for some X-wings to equip them but others not too (regardless of their ingame effect) or for them to compete with other upgrade cards.

Also all the potential effects aboult increasing evasion via a token or agility may break Biggs.

In the X-Wing fames, s-foils were closed for hyperspace jumps.

And btw I'd LOVE some alternate T-65/T70s which come with their s-foils closed. In fact, that's my prediction for Rebel Veterans: closed s-foil X-Wing repaint.

You lost me when you implied that S-foils aren't cool

In the X-Wing fames, s-foils were closed for hyperspace jumps.

And btw I'd LOVE some alternate T-65/T70s which come with their s-foils closed. In fact, that's my prediction for Rebel Veterans: closed s-foil X-Wing repaint.

Well that'd be kinda weird... How would they shoot?

BUT ON THAT NOTE.

Star Wars: Empire at War also made use of S-Foils closed = Faster for X-Wings and B-Wings, though curiously they could still fire. Though they fired at like, what, half the power. Which was definitely a detriment.

But yeah Rogue Squadron isn't the only source of this concept.

Just spitting out ideas from what I've read here. If there is an improvement which seems very debatable it is small.

Closed S foils

At the start of the game, this side faces up.

Action: flip this card.

Open s foils/ attack position.

when you reveal your dial reduce the difficulty of the maneuver one step. Flip this card.

Or

At the start of the activation phase, take 1 free action on your action bar. Flip this card.

Another problem with an S-foil card is that S-foils are a standard fixture in the ships thta have them. They are not a mod or title. If they were to be included as a gameplay mechanic they should have been incorporated into the default action bar. It doens't make sense for some X-wings to equip them but others not too (regardless of their ingame effect) or for them to compete with other upgrade cards.

That's true of a lot of the upgrades already in X-Wing. For instance, Advanced Cloaking Device and Stygium Particle Accelerator are upgrades that make the Phantom's cloak work how it's supposed to (while allowing the base action to act as lesser cloaks for other ships).

Regarding your first point:

At the trench run, one could argue that they needed their weapons armed because hey look, there's TIEs shooting at us. You're in extremely hostile territory; it makes perfect sense to keep your weapons ready. I'd rather get there alive than get there fast.

Also, they had a really small window to fire their torpedoes. You don't want to go so fast that you miss the window, or so fast you crash. They didn't think they had any jedi to pull off such a maneuver, and Luke was certainly not trained for that.

'Full throttle'

I think that's what Luke said. I guess that includes keeping the S foils in attack position.

Well good thing there is no S-foils. Also wouldn't B-wings have them too?

'Full throttle'

I think that's what Luke said. I guess that includes keeping the S foils in attack position.

LOL well considering that "on paper" X-Wings can do something like 2 000 gees of acceleration that's a bit of a joke.

It's laser swords and magic and biplanes in space. That's all. If you want to nitpick, watch The Expanse.

In my comprehension of the Star Wars movies, s-foils, are used when the ship is in a fight.
In this game, when the playing starts, the ships already are close, so, normally, you would have already locked your s-foils in "attack" position, and would have no reason to change that during the engagement !

Okay, fair enough, but there is a thing that closing your S-Foils does: It makes your profile smaller, making it easier to avoid obstacles. Had a pretty prominent scene in the new movie and I think something interesting lies in there gameplaywise. Maybe one shouldn't go the full on Dash route and make a new way to interact with obstacles in a positive way.

no, it really doesn't... the target area is exactly the same (or nearly so). The only difference is the size of the "box" of mostly empty space. That is IF you are engaging from front, rear, top or bottom. If engaging from side, it does increase the target area. Still, IMO, pointless and silly- unless we are going to modify ALL targets for aspect... like, for instance a TIE fighter... much more change in tgt area here than with an X-wing.

Assuming dual cards work by flipping at activation, why does the "open side" have to provide a bonus? We see the main stats of the model as (x-wing - t-65 and T-70) as the open side. The closed side could be this:

Assign a weapons disabled token.

Before revealing a manoeuvre, you may move 1 forward.

Your action bar gains the evade action.

This provides a bonus, but comes at a cost of not firing. The t-70 can spend points on a comm relay. If this is an action to switch the card, or if done upon activation, the dual card can be balanced point wise and accordingly.

Here is what I proposed in the other thread.

S-Foils don't make you go faster. The only time they do that is in 2 mediocre to bad video games, where it's a visual way to show the mechanic of trading off firepower for speed.

In the actually good X-wing and Tie Fighter games, this isn't needed, as you are in the cockpit, and can therefore see the energy distribution.

S-Foils don't make you go faster. The only time they do that is in 2 mediocre to bad video games, where it's a visual way to show the mechanic of trading off firepower for speed.

In the actually good X-wing and Tie Fighter games, this isn't needed, as you are in the cockpit, and can therefore see the energy distribution.

So, considering that this x-wing tabletop game doesn't have energy distribution, episode VII shows Poe closing them to squeeze through which visually seemed like he was going faster, and this could be an interesting upgrade for the x-wing, trying to find an interesting mechanic for the game trumps any old non-canon mechanics in a video game.

In the X-Wing fames, s-foils were closed for hyperspace jumps.

And btw I'd LOVE some alternate T-65/T70s which come with their s-foils closed. In fact, that's my prediction for Rebel Veterans: closed s-foil X-Wing repaint.

This. Im sure we can come up with why that makes sense.

Also closed S foils could very well provide the slam ability. It would make maybe the most sense (faster, cant fire, flappity flap)